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simplynoone
Guest
Yes, you are missing the point.
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simplynoone
Guest
Jesus was not the fraud. Jesus confirmed the Tanakh … Matthew 5:17-19. Jesus confirmed that salvation is of the Jews John 4:22 … which is confirmation of Isaiah 49:3.
Paul tried, through power of suggestion, to muddle the message. It worked for those who are unable to use their own minds; which sadly is a great majority of the world’s population.
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Lapell
Guest
You have been taking against saint Paul after the false propaganda what went on about him. In doing so you are doing a great disservice to the Truth with a capital “T”. Keep doing this and I tell you, you won’t go unpunished for it. You don’t spread slanderous rumours without consequences, don’t you know it?
Be careful not to judge only on appearances, please. Check out everything you can…
Because the things you have said against Paul simply are not true. Please don’t go on that way again. I’m saying this very seriously.
Be careful not to judge only on appearances, please. Check out everything you can…
Because the things you have said against Paul simply are not true. Please don’t go on that way again. I’m saying this very seriously.
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Lapell
Guest
Read the first of the two quotes I chose as my “signature” at the bottom of my post. It’s very true.
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Lapell
Guest
And now, good bye!
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simplynoone
Guest
You believe that God is a respector of persons don’t you? It doesn’t matter how vile a person is, so long as the Church calls him a saint, you believe that God protects their name whilst those who truly were righteous can have their name dragged through the mud.
In other words, the Church is your god.
I’ll take my chances and trust that God is NOT a respector of persons as well as that Ezekiel was a very prophet. Just read chapter 18.
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simplynoone
Guest
Here is the full chapter to Psalm 85 … not love, but mercy. You can’t understand God’s love until you understand His mercy. And it is referencing specifically the People and their God … not the Church, thus why it is best you leave the interpretations to the People who are content with what it actually says.
1Lord, thou hast been favourable unto thy land: thou hast brought back the captivity of Jacob.
2Thou hast forgiven the iniquity of thy people, thou hast covered all their sin. Selah.
3Thou hast taken away all thy wrath: thou hast turned thyself from the fierceness of thine anger.
4Turn us, O God of our salvation, and cause thine anger toward us to cease.
5Wilt thou be angry with us for ever? wilt thou draw out thine anger to all generations?
6Wilt thou not revive us again: that thy people may rejoice in thee?
7Shew us thy mercy, O LORD, and grant us thy salvation.
8I will hear what God the LORD will speak: for he will speak peace unto his people, and to his saints: but let them not turn again to folly.
9Surely his salvation is nigh them that fear him; that glory may dwell in our land.
**10Mercy and truth are met together; righteousness and peace have kissed each other. **
11Truth shall spring out of the earth; and righteousness shall look down from heaven.
12Yea, the LORD shall give that which is good; and our land shall yield her increase.
13Righteousness shall go before him; and shall set us in the way of his steps.
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Hunho
Guest
The difference between what Lapell quotes in his sig and what you have quoted is a difference in translations. Your quote seems to come from the Revised Standard version (RSV) while Lapell is using the New American Bible (NAB) in his sig. Below is Psalm 85 from the Psalms in the NAB translation:
1 For the leader. A psalm of the Korahites.
2 You once favored, LORD, your land, restored the good fortune of Jacob.
3 You forgave the guilt of your people, pardoned all their sins. Selah
4 You withdrew all your wrath, turned back your burning anger.
5 Restore us once more, God our savior; abandon your wrath against us.
6 Will you be angry with us forever, drag out your anger for all generations?
7 Please give us life again, that your people may rejoice in you.
8 Show us, LORD, your love; grant us your salvation.
9 I will listen for the word of God; surely the LORD will proclaim peace To his people, to the faithful, to those who trust in him.
10 Near indeed is salvation for the loyal; prosperity will fill our land.
11 Love and truth will meet; justice and peace will kiss.
12 Truth will spring from the earth; justice will look down from heaven.
13 The LORD will surely grant abundance; our land will yield its increase.
14 Prosperity will march before the Lord, and good fortune will follow behind.
A footnote for verses 11-13 says “Divine activity is personified as pairs of virtues.” Since mercy is rooted in love and is an expression of love in action (at least as a Catholic understands mercy and love) the difference would seem to be more a literary variation than anything else.
1 For the leader. A psalm of the Korahites.
2 You once favored, LORD, your land, restored the good fortune of Jacob.
3 You forgave the guilt of your people, pardoned all their sins. Selah
4 You withdrew all your wrath, turned back your burning anger.
5 Restore us once more, God our savior; abandon your wrath against us.
6 Will you be angry with us forever, drag out your anger for all generations?
7 Please give us life again, that your people may rejoice in you.
8 Show us, LORD, your love; grant us your salvation.
9 I will listen for the word of God; surely the LORD will proclaim peace To his people, to the faithful, to those who trust in him.
10 Near indeed is salvation for the loyal; prosperity will fill our land.
11 Love and truth will meet; justice and peace will kiss.
12 Truth will spring from the earth; justice will look down from heaven.
13 The LORD will surely grant abundance; our land will yield its increase.
14 Prosperity will march before the Lord, and good fortune will follow behind.
A footnote for verses 11-13 says “Divine activity is personified as pairs of virtues.” Since mercy is rooted in love and is an expression of love in action (at least as a Catholic understands mercy and love) the difference would seem to be more a literary variation than anything else.
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Hunho
Guest
Jesus did indeed say in John 4:22 that “salvation is from the Jews.” But if you are going to be honest in referring to what Jesus says in the Gospel of John you have to give the whole content of what Jesus said.
**21 Jesus said to her, “Believe me, woman, the hour is coming when you will worship the Father neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem.
22 You people worship what you do not understand; we worship what we understand, because salvation is from the Jews.
23 But the hour is coming, and is now here, when true worshipers will worship the Father in Spirit and truth; 9 and indeed the Father seeks such people to worship him.
24 God is Spirit, and those who worship him must worship in Spirit and truth.”
25 The woman said to him, “I know that the Messiah is coming, the one called the Anointed; when he comes, he will tell us everything.”
26 Jesus said to her, “I am he, the one who is speaking with you.”
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What did Jesus mean by the rest of what he said to the Samaritan woman to whom he was speaking?
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simplynoone
Guest
Hunho, do you think mercy can only be brought forth out of love? I ask because once, I went before a judge about a ticket that I received. I admitted to going over the speed limit and was simply asking for community service since at the time, I was having a difficult time financially. He threw out the ticket altogether though I was more than willing to do community service. Do you think that judged loved me in a personal way so as to throw out that ticket which is more than I had asked for? I figured it was because I was honest and willing to accept judgment of some sort and had little to do with love. What do you think? Just curious.
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simplynoone
Guest
I am honest. That is why I had to leave Christianity behind. Jesus says salvation is of the Jews and not salvation is of the Christians or even that salvation is of Jesus. You are the one interpolating your idea of what he meant rather than actually understanding what he said. I could pick up any of the other Jews’ posts on here and call them “messiah”… the individuals of the People, Israel, are all the anointed of God. That is according to the Tanakh.
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Hunho
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??? What did I interpolate - insert into - the passage I quoted from John’s gospel? How did I make it misleading or dishonest? How did I “misunderstand” what Jesus said when I quoted the exact text given in the New Testament? I merely thought that everything Jesus said to the woman (and how she reacted to what Jesus said) was as important as the one phrase saying where salvation came from.
I did not mean to imply that you were not honest. I was using a common (or so I thought) phrasing to remind you or any reader to look at the whole context and not focus on only one part. If I offended you I apologize and ask for your forgiveness for offending you.
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simplynoone
Guest
I can clearly see I was mistaken now. For some reason, I thought it was Lapell I was replying to. This is a conversation that we have had going in the past and I just picked it up as such, for some strange reason thinking I saw his name on the reply.
And no worries, either way, I was not at all offended.
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Hunho
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Actually I do. But I’m not talking about love as an emotion; I’m talking about love as a virtue. As a Catholic I would have to define the virtue of love as a choice to will and do good - the greatest possible good - to someone. Fr. John Hardon, in his Modern Catholic Dictionary, says “The love of friendship means selfless love of another for that person’s own sake, for his or her good, to please him or her; it is the love of benevolence.” A judge in court in the situation you described who knew nothing more about you than what he saw in court would be acting in love to show you the mercy he did show to you. And if a judge in court who does not know you could act from love to show you mercy, how much more mercy might God our eternal Father who has known us from our mother’s womb show us out of His love?Hunho, do you think mercy can only be brought forth out of love? I ask because once, I went before a judge about a ticket that I received. I admitted to going over the speed limit and was simply asking for community service since at the time, I was having a difficult time financially. He threw out the ticket altogether though I was more than willing to do community service. Do you think that judged loved me in a personal way so as to throw out that ticket which is more than I had asked for? I figured it was because I was honest and willing to accept judgment of some sort and had little to do with love. What do you think? Just curious.
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Hunho
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I think I remember you posting something about being a Christian and then rejecting Christianity but I’ll never find that post among all that you’ve written. I would like to know what happened to turn you away from Christianity. I don’t intend to try to argue you back to Christianity and I don’t expect it to cause me to change my positions but I really would like to understand what happened to drive you away. I If I’m being too nosy just tell me that it’s none of my business and I’ll drop the question.
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simplynoone
Guest
Love is not a virtue. Do you know why the first commandment for the Jewish is to love the Lord our God? Because to love, one must know.
Now, that judge that I told you of did something good for me. However, it was not an act of love; rather it was an act of kindness. There is a difference.
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simplynoone
Guest
I don’t mind. I think it is really simple why I left Christianity. I could make no sense of it, first of all … then, also, it is not where I belonged. I never felt at ease in Christianity. I never found purpose in it.
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Hunho
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‘Virtue’ was a poor choice of words. I was looking for a word that did not identify love as an emotion or a feeling but as something that belonged to the mind and will. I really do think that kindness comes from a form or some degree of love. You said " to love, one must know." Can I love only someone or something that I know? What is love?
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simplynoone
Guest
*Respect is the word.
I heard that from a very wise man. I agree. ***
*And especially when it comes to religion, we must admit that love generally is subjective as is the golden rule and they are anything, BUT never selfless. Let’s take for instance the Muslims since we will see eye to eye on what I am about to say. To a Jew or a Christian, it is easy to say to the radical Muslim who wants to take our lives for the sake of their kingdom that they are not being loving and definitely not following the golden rule … *
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*BUT, let’s take a closer look. In their eyes, they are loving their perceived picture of God as well as loving those who are a part of their kingdom by ridding the world of those who oppose their radically rigid way of life … and all that involves. Then, we have the suicide bombers, so certainly they are doing unto others as they would have done unto them … don’t you see? If they are willing to die for their beliefs, then to take your life for their beliefs is not such a breach of the golden rule, right? *
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*Now, take that to your faith. (pardon my generalizations and don’t take offense if you should find yourself at odds with certain things I am bringing up … just listen and ponder it honestly). One of Christianity’s biggest foundations (according to them) for being right is that so many were willing to die for it … and in fact, many claim that they are willing even now. If you perceive this life as something worthy to be given up just for a belief, then your level of respect for the lives of others goes down whether you have realized it or not. Even your respect for Life and its Creator has diminished in this line of thinking … and this is QUITE evident, even here with some of the posts in this very thread. *
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*How many good ppl are there in the world feeling lost and desperately hopeless because of the guilt that is laid on them by their Christian upbringings? IT IS SO NEEDLESS … and yet, because belief/faith has become the corner stone for how you will love, the golden rule which is to imply “respect” becomes warped accordingly. *
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*Then, respect really is lost as this sense of love (emotions) replaces it. *
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Of course, now we should look at this idea of “selfless” so many of you have spoken of. Tell me, when have you EVER done anything selflessly? Honestly! Ever? I don’t think that ppl really think it through when they say they have … but if you can give me an example of how a selfless act is possible, I am all ears!
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*Can you only love someone or something that you know? Maybe not … but then, as you say, what is love? I know that the more I know of God’s ways, the more I love Him … then, I can look back and see clearly that whilst in Christianity, it was impossible to love God because there is not knowledge of God (the God of Israel anyway) in Christianity … only of what one imagines is God. *
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*As for God loving us … that is misunderstanding. We are the ones who do the loving. God gave us Life … that is the extent of His love for us. At that point, it is up to us to seek His way so that we can make the most of what He gave us. *
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Hunho
Guest
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*As for God loving us … that is misunderstanding. We are the ones who do the loving. God gave us Life … that is the extent of His love for us. At that point, it is up to us to seek His way so that we can make the most of what He gave us. *
The gap between what I was trying to say, however clumsily, is farther away from what you are saying than I expected. You say that “God gave us Life … that is the extent of His love for us.” This is totally unlike the Christian/Catholic understanding (and certainly my understanding) of the relationship between God and man. And what happened to the marriage relationship that God uses throughout the scriptures of the Tanakh/Old Testament? I have a great deal of thinking and reading to do to reply to what you have said here about love, both God’s love and man’s love. This cannot be the end of our conversation on love.
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