The Glorious Miracle of Prophet Muhammed: Mi'raj

[zamyrabyrd]

It’s not a true plural in the way it is used in this verse. Moses was called Elohim, the plural form of god, in Exodus 7:1. This exists in semantic languages.

Just one correction, but it makes all the difference in the world:
"Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I make you **as **God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.”
Contrast the above to the King James Bible:
“And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”
We also do not use the singular 2nd person thee, thou and thy anymore

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

These words are not from Jesus.

Muslims do not believe Jesus is God.

John knew Jesus. Mohammed did not.

Why should what Mohammed believed about Jesus matter?

He clearly contradicts the teachings of Jesus.

 

[meltzerboy]

Jesus existed from before time. He is God.

Genesis 1:26:

Then God said, "Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness…

John 8:58
“Very truly I tell you,” Jesus answered, “before Abraham was born, I am!”

John 1:1
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was
God.

John 1:14
The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us. We have seen his glory, the glory of the one and only Son, who came from the Father, full of grace and truth.

Colossians 1:17
He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Some Jews believe that the Word is the Torah (Law), which existed at the beginning of the universe, or even before then, in the mind of G-d. Eventually, it was given to Moses, the Jewish people, and all of mankind.

The plural form of G-d has been described by Hebrew scholars as the magisterial (we) expression of G-d in Hebrew and/or as a sign of G-d’s humility in that He includes and addresses the angels with regard to His creation.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Some Jews believe that the Word is the Torah (Law), which existed at the beginning of the universe, or even before then, in the mind of G-d. Eventually, it was given to Moses, the Jewish people, and all of mankind.

The plural form of G-d has been described by Hebrew scholars as the magisterial (we) expression of G-d in Hebrew and/or as a sign of G-d’s humility in that He includes and addresses the angels with regard to His creation.

John is quite clear that by the Word he means Jesus.

The royal “we” is one possibility. However, the angels are not co-creators, they are creations themselves. Also, according to scripture we are created in God’s image, not the image of angels.

 

[TruthBearer]

Just one correction, but it makes all the difference in the world:
"Then the LORD said to Moses, “See, I make you **as **God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron shall be your prophet.”
Contrast the above to the King James Bible:
“And the LORD said unto Moses, See, I have made thee a god to Pharaoh: and Aaron thy brother shall be thy prophet.”
We also do not use the singular 2nd person thee, thou and thy anymore

These two translations do not convey the same meaning.

 

[meltzerboy]

John is quite clear that by the Word he means Jesus.

The royal “we” is one possibility. However, the angels are not co-creators, they are creations themselves. Also, according to scripture we are created in God’s image, not the image of angels.

I mean apart from what John says (that is, it is not an interpretation of the Gospels), some Jews believe that the Torah (the Word of G-d) preexisted the Creation of the universe.

I realize the angels are not co-creators but, some say, G-d is speaking to them and in His humility is including them, or even getting permission from them, as co-participants of His kingdom in the creation of humanity.

 

[TruthBearer]

John knew Jesus. Mohammed did not.

Why should what Mohammed believed about Jesus matter?

He clearly contradicts the teachings of Jesus.

Everything you mentioned debatable.

There is a debate as to who wrote Gospel of John. It all matters how one understands the teachings of Jesus. You can read a verse and I can read a verse and get from it two different meanings. This is why there are different Christian sects or denominations, they don’t understand the teachings the Jesus the same.

 

[TruthBearer]

I mean apart from what John says (that is, it is not an interpretation of the Gospels), some Jews believe that the Torah (the Word of G-d) preexisted the Creation of the universe.

I realize the angels are not co-creators but, some say, G-d is speaking to them and in His humility is including them as co-participants in the Creation.

Glad you are here, it is good to get the Jewish perspective on things. All sides matter.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

I mean apart from what John says (that is, it is not an interpretation of the Gospels), some Jews believe that the Torah (the Word of G-d) preexisted the Creation of the universe.

I realize the angels are not co-creators but, some say, G-d is speaking to them and in His humility is including them, or even getting permission from them, as co-participants of His kingdom in the creation of humanity.

That all sounds reasonable. I think these passages are definitely open to interpretation.

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Everything you mentioned debatable.

There is a debate as to who wrote Gospel of John. It all matters how one understands the teachings of Jesus. You can read a verse and I can read a verse and get from it two different meanings. This is why there are different Christian sects or denominations, they don’t understand the teachings the Jesus the same.

Mohammed did not know Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed are very different than the teachings of Jesus.

I don’t think you can effectively debate these points.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

These two translations do not convey the same meaning.

רְאֵה נְתַתִּיךָ אֱלֹהִים לְפַרְעֹה; וְאַהֲרֹן אָחִיךָ, יִהְיֶה נְבִיאֶךָ.
*“See, I gave you (as) god(s) to Pharaoh and Aharon your brother will be your prophet.” *
There is no way the Moshe is supposed to become God.

 

[zamyrabyrd]

I …some Jews believe that the Torah (the Word of G-d) preexisted the Creation of the universe.

I realize the angels are not co-creators but, some say, G-d is speaking to them and in His humility is including them, or even getting permission from them, as co-participants of His kingdom in the creation of humanity.

I can accept the first premise but have a really hard time with the second. I don’t see anywhere that angels are co-creators.

 

[Servant19]

The plural form of G-d has been described by Hebrew scholars as the magisterial (we) expression of G-d in Hebrew and/or as a sign of G-d’s humility in that He includes and addresses the angels with regard to His creation.

This is fascinating meltzerboy!!

If one were to look through the Baha’i Revelation, one would notice Baha’u’llah never uses the word “I”, Revelation came to Him in the magisterial form of “We”

For me, evidence that it is all from the same Source and that humanity is attached to the “Names” of Prophets rather than the Source itself.

.

 

[Servant19]

Mohammed did not know Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed are very different than the teachings of Jesus.

I don’t think you can effectively debate these points.

Muhammad did not have to KNOW Jesus dear friend.

Muhammad, on a much higher plane, IS Jesus, since they are both Sons of God:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one.” [Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652]

.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Muhammad did not have to KNOW Jesus dear friend.

Muhammad, on a much higher plane, IS Jesus, since they are both Sons of God:

Narrated Abu Huraira:
Allah’s Apostle said, “Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one.” [Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652]

.

When you say Muhammad is Jesus, what do you mean? Do you mean this literally? Metaphorically? Can you define the meaning of “is” in your statement?

 

[opulumpu]

It does not matter what Mohammed claimed, whether he is nearest to Jesus, greater than Jesus or whatever; those are his claims. Only those who believe in him will believe those claims.

Jesus said that nobody can get to the Father except through Him, Jesus. The Almighty, merciful God, will show those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Jesus, a way to discover God, The same is true for those who lived before Jesus. However, people like Mohammed or others who know Jesus but refuse to accept Him as the Way to the Father, will never get to the Father regardless of their claims. There is NO WAY to flank Jesus to get to the Father after you learned about Jesus teachings. You can believe all you want, perform all miracles under the sun and beyond; however, you are deluding yourself about your getting to heaven if you you do not accept Jesus as the ONLY WAY to the Father. EITHER JESUS IS A LIAR AND A BOMBAST by his sayings of John 14:18-19 or Mohammed and the claims of Islam about Mohammed being equal or greater than Jesus are bogus. It is either one or the other; it cannot be both Take your choice and good luck.

There are Moslems who have not heard about Jesus and are following the teachings of Mohammed in their lives to find God. Similarly, there are pagans who have not learnt about Islam or Christianity but are following the dictates of their conscience in their daily lives. We are all children of God and He has (name removed by moderator)lanted in us a means to find Him. However, those who have learnt about Jesus, the Son of God, but refuse to accept Him as the ONLY WAY to the Father, are deceiving themselves; they may be sincere, but they are sincerely wrong.

 

[Servant19]

When you say Muhammad is Jesus, what do you mean? Do you mean this literally? Metaphorically? Can you define the meaning of “is” in your statement?

Ultimately there is only ONE Reality Ignatian, and I mean this literally.

Would you not agree?

.

 

[Dpoc41]

John is quite clear that by the Word he means Jesus.

Also in The Quran

THE WORD OF GOD (Kalimatullah)

Jesus is also called "His word" in Surah 4:171, meaning the Word of God. In Surah 3:45 we also read that the angels said to Mary "Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary". More than once in the Qur'an, therefore, Jesus is called God's Word. He is also called the Word of God in the Bible.

"He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God". (Revelation 19:13)

LINK

 

[Matthew_Light]

Also in The Quran

THE WORD OF GOD (Kalimatullah)

Jesus is also called "His word" in Surah 4:171, meaning the Word of God. In Surah 3:45 we also read that the angels said to Mary "Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary". More than once in the Qur'an, therefore, Jesus is called God's Word. He is also called the Word of God in the Bible.

"He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God". (Revelation 19:13)

LINK

Yep!

 

[CHESTERTONRULES]

Also in The Quran

THE WORD OF GOD (Kalimatullah)

Jesus is also called "His word" in Surah 4:171, meaning the Word of God. In Surah 3:45 we also read that the angels said to Mary "Allah giveth thee glad tidings of a word from Him, whose name is the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary". More than once in the Qur'an, therefore, Jesus is called God's Word. He is also called the Word of God in the Bible.

"He is clad in a robe dipped in blood, and the name by which he is called is The Word of God". (Revelation 19:13)

LINK

But Muslims don’t regard Jesus as God, or the Word made flesh.

I don’t know what this means to a Muslim.