The Glorious Miracle of Prophet Muhammed: Mi'raj

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CHESTERTONRULES said:
Mohammed did not know Jesus and the teachings of Mohammed are very different than the teachings of Jesus.

I don’t think you can effectively debate these points.
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If we debated, I don’t think you could convince me, nor do I think I could convince you.

The debate would be completely ineffective.
 
Dpoc41 said:
To one Muslim it meant that He Is God - Mario Joseph: Muslim Converted To Christian (Quran Points To Christ) youtube.com/watch?v=5ofapHQFySg
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He may have been Muslim, but I am not entirely convinced that he was an Imam or that he studied with some Islamic scholars. He “supposedly” approached his teacher with this question, about Jesus being the word of God and Word of God being God, and his teacher got mad and yelled at him.

Because when I was Muslim, I asked my teacher the same question, and he didn’t yell at me nor did he get upset. But answered the question.

He replied, there is a difference between the Speech of God, Kalaamu Allah, an Attribute of God. And Jesus, a word of God. Jesus was honored with this titled because he was created with the word of God, Be, instead of having a father as Adam was created. SO Jesus has been honored with the title, a word from God or a word of God.
 
meltzerboy said:
I realize the angels are not co-creators but, some say, G-d is speaking to them and in His humility is including them, or even getting permission from them, as co-participants of His kingdom in the creation of humanity.
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There are also some plural statements in Qur’an like “we” which God use for Himself instaed “I”. But those statements do not mean that there are plural gods or angels are co-participants or co-operator of creating. God use such plural terms for Himself in some way:
  • God use term “we” to respect His majesty. Just like in that verse:
4- We have certainly created man in the best of stature; At-Tin(95):4

People also use such terms for sake of respect and courtesy.
  • God use “we” for the actions in which there are some means and transactors. As in that verse:
9-Indeed, it is We who sent down the Qur’an and indeed, We will be its guardian. Al-Hijr(15):9

Qur’an was revealed through angel Gabriel. Here Gabriel is a means. Gabriel is a witness for action of God. So God use we to imply witnessing of Gabriel.

There are some means in actions of God. But those means are not co-operator in actions of God. Ultimately God give power to angels just how God give man power to move. So if God do not allow angels to do something non angel can act.

All right. Why God put means through His actions? There is answer of that question. if somebody wish I can write.

Otherwise God definitely inform that God is unique. And God use term of “I” in many verses.
 
hasantas said:
There are also some plural statements in Qur’an like “we” which God use for Himself instaed “I”. But those statements do not mean that there are plural gods or angels are co-participants or co-operator of creating. God use such plural terms for Himself in some way:
  • God use term “we” to respect His majesty.
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It is the royal ‘we’, which is perfectly understandable. It is not unique as this is a language of the royal court. Queen Elizabeth II of England would use the pronounce ‘we’ in a formal speech to denote herself.

However, it could also mean more than the one person who speaks it, like it could mean the entire institution of her monarchy which of course consists more than just Her Majesty.

Yes, it is not that unique for God as He uses human language. What I think is unique in Islam is that God should use Arabic only (is it Quareshi Arab?) and no other languages can be used to understand His word sufficiently. God here has limited Himself in such important matter for mankind to understand His word. We thought He would have made it simpler. 😦
 
meltzerboy said:
That verse and the whole passage from Deuteronomy have been used by both Christians and Muslims to represent Jesus and Muhammad, respectively. However, the Jewish interpretation, which I have discussed elsewhere on CAF, refers to the preparation of the Jewish people for their next leader since Moses was approaching death. The passage also refers to the office of prophecy more than a specific individual prophet. Moses reveals the distinction between a true and a false prophet and the qualifications needed by the former.
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What trouble’s me is Muslims start telling us Jesus is so important to them but misinterpret the experiences of the Church which was started by Jesus. They don’t seem to know the history about the Christian councils and how they dealt with heresies. But then come around and say Jesus is this and Jesus was not that, without dealing with the facts (which are readily available if ones wants to find out)** in order and consistency**.

For the sake of good order this is the minimum I would like from Muslims. 🤷

MJ
 
TruthBearer said:
If we debated, I don’t think you could convince me, nor do I think I could convince you.

The debate would be completely ineffective.
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Feel free to start the debate by telling us how Mohammed met Jesus.
 
7_Sorrows said:
Why would Mohammed fly from Mecca to Jerusalem on his night journey? What was significant about Jerusalem? Why didn’t he ascend from Mecca?

Jesus was in Israel because he was born of Virgin Mary in Bethlehem, Israel. He was Jewish. What was Mohammed’s connection to Jerusalem again?
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Mohammad had different practices when he was in Mecca before he migrated to Medina. Muslim ulamas differentiated the Meccan suras (chapters in the Quran) from the Medinan suras.

For instance, the kiblat (the direction of prayer) was originally towards Jerusalem and only in Medina did it changed to Mecca. Also, in Mecca, his stance in the face of persecution was a little more pacifist but gathered an army on conquest after he got to Medina.

One can also see a growing intolerance of Christians and Jews in the Medina suras in contrast to Meccan suras where (for instance) Muslims are asked to refer to the people of the Book if any doubts on the faith arises.

One must understand that in Mecca, Mohammad was in a position of weakness rejected by his own tribe while in Medina, he managed to eventually gathered an army of 12,000 and led many military campaigns himself.

Also, in Mecca, Mohammad was married to his then sole wife, Khatijah (he left Mecca a few years after his wife of 23 years died). An uncle of Khatijah was Waraqa bin Neufal, an Ebionite (I believe so but there are alternative views of his sect), from whom he learned about Christianity (according to Muslim scholars). The more tolerant view of Jews and Christians could be the result of the influence on Mohammad from Waraqa (Ebionites are a strand of heretical Christianity, who stands halfway between mainstream Christianity & Judaism and rejects the Trinity & the divinity of Jesus). It is possible that Mohammad’s faithfulness to one wife in Mecca was the result of Waraqa’s Christian views of marriage, becoming polygamous (he had up to 12 wives simultaneously) only after Waraqa’s and Khatijah’s death?

One can see that in Mecca, Mohammad’s religion was still a sect of Judeao-Christianity and only become fully Islamic in Medina.

Based on these, neutral non-Muslims can see a development in the writings of Mohammad, based on the circumstances of his life. Muslims are of course, unable to accept this because their starting point is that Mohammad did not write the Quran but God did, in his own hand no less.
 
jimkhong said:
Mohammad had different practices when he was in Mecca before he migrated to Medina. Muslim ulamas differentiated the Meccan suras (chapters in the Quran) from the Medinan suras.

For instance, the kiblat (the direction of prayer) was originally towards Jerusalem and only in Medina did it changed to Mecca. Also, in Mecca, his stance in the face of persecution was a little more pacifist but gathered an army on conquest after he got to Medina.

One can also see a growing intolerance of Christians and Jews in the Medina suras in contrast to Meccan suras where (for instance) Muslims are asked to refer to the people of the Book if any doubts on the faith arises.

One must understand that in Mecca, Mohammad was in a position of weakness rejected by his own tribe while in Medina, he managed to eventually gathered an army of 12,000 and led many military campaigns himself.

Also, in Mecca, Mohammad was married to his then sole wife, Khatijah (he left Mecca a few years after his wife of 23 years died). An uncle of Khatijah was Waraqa bin Neufal, an Ebionite (I believe so but there are alternative views of his sect), from whom he learned about Christianity (according to Muslim scholars). The more tolerant view of Jews and Christians could be the result of the influence on Mohammad from Waraqa (Ebionites are a strand of heretical Christianity, who stands halfway between mainstream Christianity & Judaism and rejects the Trinity & the divinity of Jesus). It is possible that Mohammad’s faithfulness to one wife in Mecca was the result of Waraqa’s Christian views of marriage, becoming polygamous (he had up to 12 wives simultaneously) only after Waraqa’s and Khatijah’s death?

One can see that in Mecca, Mohammad’s religion was still a sect of Judeao-Christianity and only become fully Islamic in Medina.

Based on these, neutral non-Muslims can see a development in the writings of Mohammad, based on the circumstances of his life. Muslims are of course, unable to accept this because their starting point is that Mohammad did not write the Quran but God did, in his own hand no less.
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One gets into tricky waters regarding who wrote what in Holy Script. There were many accounts of Jesus starting from those who may have witnessed Him in their lifetimes but they were whittled down to four gospels over the centuries. The apocrypha for the most part were rejected as they did not fall into line with the basic tenets of the new religion.

Some people cite as sources for the Quran:
faithfreedom.org/Articles/AbulKasem41205.htm
"The major part of the Qur’an was either composed by or inspired and written by a few other individuals. The most notable among them were:
Imrul Qays—an ancient poet of Arabia who died a few decades before Muhammad’s birth
Zayd b. Amr b. Naufal—an ‘apostate’ of his time who preached and propagated Hanifism
Labid—another poet
Hasan b. Thabit—the official poet of Muhammad
Salman, the Persian—Muhammad’s confidante’ and an advisor
Bahira—a Nestoraian Christian monk of the Syrian church
Jabr—a Christian neighbour of Muhammad
Ibn Qumta—a Christian slave
Khadijah—Muhammad’s first wife
Waraqa—Khadijah’s cousin brother
Ubay b. Ka’b—Muhammad’s secretary and a Qur’an scribe
Muhammad himself
Other parties involved were:
The Sabeans
Aisha—Muhammad’s child bride
Abdallah b. Salam b. al-Harith—a Jewish convert to Islam
Mukhyariq—a Rabbi and another Jewish convert to Islam
 
jimkhong said:
Mohammad had different practices when he was in Mecca before he migrated to Medina. Muslim ulamas differentiated the Meccan suras (chapters in the Quran) from the Medinan suras.

For instance, the kiblat (the direction of prayer) was originally towards Jerusalem and only in Medina did it changed to Mecca. Also, in Mecca, his stance in the face of persecution was a little more pacifist but gathered an army on conquest after he got to Medina.

One can also see a growing intolerance of Christians and Jews in the Medina suras in contrast to Meccan suras where (for instance) Muslims are asked to refer to the people of the Book if any doubts on the faith arises.

One must understand that in Mecca, Mohammad was in a position of weakness rejected by his own tribe while in Medina, he managed to eventually gathered an army of 12,000 and led many military campaigns himself.

Also, in Mecca, Mohammad was married to his then sole wife, Khatijah (he left Mecca a few years after his wife of 23 years died). An uncle of Khatijah was Waraqa bin Neufal, an Ebionite (I believe so but there are alternative views of his sect), from whom he learned about Christianity (according to Muslim scholars). The more tolerant view of Jews and Christians could be the result of the influence on Mohammad from Waraqa (Ebionites are a strand of heretical Christianity, who stands halfway between mainstream Christianity & Judaism and rejects the Trinity & the divinity of Jesus). It is possible that Mohammad’s faithfulness to one wife in Mecca was the result of Waraqa’s Christian views of marriage, becoming polygamous (he had up to 12 wives simultaneously) only after Waraqa’s and Khatijah’s death?

One can see that in Mecca, Mohammad’s religion was still a sect of Judeao-Christianity and only become fully Islamic in Medina.

Based on these, neutral non-Muslims can see a development in the writings of Mohammad, based on the circumstances of his life. Muslims are of course, unable to accept this because their starting point is that Mohammad did not write the Quran but God did, in his own hand no less.
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Some people point the differences between in periods of Mecca and Medina and so imply that as if Muhammed wrote Qur’an by himself according to His desires. That is baseless and ulterior motives.

During period in Mecca the most importand issues of faith were revealed and established. Muslims were under strict control so they had need moral power in faith. Meccan verses rather were about essences of faith. And all religions from God has same main points in faith. So Islam is not sect of a religion but Islam has same sources with Christians and Jews.

In Medina Muslims were not under pressure anymore. Muslims had established a community and state. And also faith was strengthened. But it was requirement for Muslims to know about Islamic view of law, social matters, worships, dealing with people of book, heritages, marriages, law of war etc but not only about wars and marriages. And also Medinan verses are more tenderly as contrary to assertions. Because acceptors were believers in Medina. Meccan Suras are generally short and certain.

Why Muslims made wars and marriages of prophet Muhammed can be discussed. There are admissible reasons of those.

Muslims first attacked caravans of Pagans because Pagans attached and arrested assets of Muslims in Mecca. And also Pagans had tortured Muslims in Mecca. Pagans raised troops against Muslims and some tribes supported pagans in wars. So Muslims later fought against that tribes. Muslims never torture or killed any one who did not fight or commit a crime against Muslims.

Muhammed was married relatively with a old woman until 53. If Muhammed wished He could get marry more women because according to Arabic customs a man could get marry many women. But Muhammed did not such thin while He was young and healty as biological. That shows that the marriages of prophet Muhammed was not because of lust. In Medina Muslims need for rules of worships and some specific circumstances about women. And wives of prophet taught muslims women about that Islamic rules which concern women. And also some marriages were to call tribe to Islam. Muhammed never commited a sin like adultery before Islam while He was young. But it was usual to commit such thing and nobody were used to blame such behaviours. That shows that Muhammed was not a lustful human. Muhammed was/is the highest moraly human on the world. Getting married do not make a man coruupt but make man more honourable because that ia a way which God allowed.
 
hasantas said:
During period in Mecca the most importand issues of faith were revealed and established.
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Hi Hasantas, Though my last two questions were not answered (posts 26 & 27), I’d appreciate a reconciliation of the above line vs your post #22 in this thread (which was the source for my last question).

Post 22 section of confusion:
hasantas said:
Jesus will come back on the world by permission of God. Muhammed was sent back directly and Jesus will be sent back later and Jesus will finish His duty. He will teach the true facts about faith.
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I’d appreciate an explanation of the difference between ‘most important issues of faith revealed and established during the period in Mecca’, and ‘waiting for the true facts about faith from Jesus’.

Thank you,

Mike
 
hasantas said:
Here miracles of Muhammed:

a) The water came out through His fingers many times in case of need
b) Prophed Muhammed prophesied many cases which would happen after Him. The list is vey long
c) Muhammed were ascended to most high beyond Heavens.
d) Muhammed raised some dead and deads talked. Even Abdulkadir Gaylani raised a cooked chicken to life. Gaylani was an Avliya even not a prophet.
e) Prophet Muhammed healed many diseases and patients and the list is very long.
f) Nuhammed feed thousand people with a very few food many times and the list is very long.
g) Muhammed split moon with point it by finger.
h) The stones, dead trunk, some animals talked
ı) Trees walked.
etc etc etc
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Correct me if I am wrong but I understand that only the one relating to the moon is in the Quran. Can you provide the references for the rest?
 
ffg said:
Hi Hasantas, Though my last two questions were not answered (posts 26 & 27), I’d appreciate a reconciliation of the above line vs your post #22 in this thread (which was the source for my last question).

Post 22 section of confusion:

I’d appreciate an explanation of the difference between ‘most important issues of faith revealed and established during the period in Mecca’, and ‘waiting for the true facts about faith from Jesus’.

Thank you,

Mike
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Most of people were pagans and they did not believe in God or they had many doubts about faith. So God revealed the verses which made faith strong firstly. In Medina the verses were revealed about other issues.

God had informed Jesus about Islam. Jesus wished to be Muslim and apply and perform Islam. Jesus wanted this from God and God accepted that so God raised Jesus.

Jesus will come back on the world to fight against atheism and He will achive that as cooperatively in Islam.

Jesus will correct such issues like trinity in Christianity. He will indicate that He is not son of God but prophet and did not crucifixed and God is unique. Those are the facts about faith.

Jesus will maintain peace between Christianity and Islam and also between peoples on the world.

Jesus will bring abundance on the world.

Alla these good things are commented by Christians in different ways as if God will establish His kingdom on the world for 1000 years.

Jesus will not come as a prophet but as a human dependent on Islam because Muhammed is the last prophet.
 
I will try again, because it’s God’s will that the good news of Jesus Christ be known.

Quran consists of 114 surat. And it starts with the Fatiha the opening surat, and in that opening surat, there is something very interesting. You know, it is a prayer, that the Muslims recite in each of the five daily prayers assigned to the Muslims. A verse in this opening prayer says, “Guide us to the straight way.” I will repeat, “Guide us to the straight way.” If we are already in the straight way, how could we pray ‘guide us in the straight way’? If I am in the right street, I would not say, “Please, guide me to the right street.” I am already there. But the Muslims are praying every day, seventeen times, “Guide us to the straight way.” What does that mean? It’s not yet in the straight way. You know why? Because Jesus Christ is the only way. He said, “I am the way.” He didn’t say, “I am a way.” He said, “I am THE way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father, but by me.” I wish that every Muslim will know the straight way, who is Jesus Christ. “I am the way, the truth, and the life.”
And then we go to the names of God in the Quran. You’ll not find in the Quran the name of God as ‘father’. And you cannot find in the Quran the name of God as ‘love’. God the Father, God is love, there are not mentioned in the Quran. You know why? Because if we admit that God is the eternal Father, He must have an eternal son, and that means that we have to profess and declare that Jesus is the eternal Son of God.
Number two, if we declare that God is love, we have to declare also that, “God gave his only begotten son, that whoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” This is why the Quran omits the name of God as Father, and the name of God as love. These are very clear differences between the Quran and the Bible.
 
Joyful_Song said:
I will try again, because it’s God’s will that the good news of Jesus Christ be known.

Quran consists of 114 surat. And it starts with the Fatiha the opening surat, and in that opening surat, there is something very interesting. You know, it is a prayer, that the Muslims recite in each of the five daily prayers assigned to the Muslims. A verse in this opening prayer says, “Guide us to the straight way.” I will repeat, “Guide us to the straight way.” If we are already in the straight way, how could we pray ‘guide us in the straight way’? If I am in the right street, I would not say, “Please, guide me to the right street.” I am already there. But the Muslims are praying every day, seventeen times, “Guide us to the straight way.” What does that mean? It’s not yet in the straight way. You know why? Because Jesus Christ is the only way. He said, “I am the way.” He didn’t say, “I am a way.” He said, “I am THE way, the truth, and the life. No man comes to the father, but by me.” I wish that every Muslim will know the straight way, who is Jesus Christ. “I am the way, the truth, and the life.”
And then we go to the names of God in the Quran. You’ll not find in the Quran the name of God as ‘father’. And you cannot find in the Quran the name of God as ‘love’. God the Father, God is love, there are not mentioned in the Quran. You know why? Because if we admit that God is the eternal Father, He must have an eternal son, and that means that we have to profess and declare that Jesus is the eternal Son of God.
Number two, if we declare that God is love, we have to declare also that, “God gave his only begotten son, that whoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” This is why the Quran omits the name of God as Father, and the name of God as love. These are very clear differences between the Quran and the Bible.
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Interesting post, Joyful Song. Thanks for the information. 👍 🙂

Reuben
 
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