The God of Islam

[JohnWilliams]

Agreed. But first you have to love them. Otherwise, they won’t visit those sites…

Loving our neighbor is a given for a Christian. This shouldn’t need to be discussed. But we don’t love them by encouraging them to remain in Islam by telling them that their God is the same as ours. Their god is antichrist.

Matthew 22:37-40 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second [is] like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets.

 

[JohnWilliams]

A. Why?
B. What does feeling sry for me have to do with the discussion?

God has always had a plan of salvation for the Jews. However, I firmly believe that Islam is central to Bible Second Coming prophecy as the leopard-bear-lion beast described in Revelation 13. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=119875
And if one didn’t recognize their role there, it is easy to recognize that they are antichrist.

 

[Verbum]

Hi All,

“Allah’” IS the Arabic word for God. Arabic-speaking Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox, use it to mean God.

It is against Catholic doctrine, as stated in the Catechism, to associate Islam with the devil.

This thread contains something very close to the promotion of hatred and should be quashed beginning NOW.

Verbum

 

[Booklover]

For anyone actually interested in learning about Islam, I suggest you go to a Islamic apologists site. Learning from the ppl hear is like trying to learn about Christianity from Jack Chick.

As to whomever mentioned that Allah is a moon god…nope
islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Sources/Allah/moongod.html

Baloney! Muslims will lie about their religion! The only way to find out what the true Islam is all about, is to go to a site run by ex-Muslims or other anti_Islamic sites!

And as for “Allah”, he’s only Muhammad!

Vickie

 

[bella5110]

Baloney! Muslims will lie about their religion! The only way to find out what the true Islam is all about, is to go to a site run by ex-Muslims or other anti_Islamic sites!

And as for “Allah”, he’s only Muhammad!

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

Hi All,

“Allah’” IS the Arabic word for God. Arabic-speaking Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox, use it to mean God.

It is against Catholic doctrine, as stated in the Catechism, to associate Islam with the devil.

This thread contains something very close to the promotion of hatred and should be quashed beginning NOW.

Verbum

Oh please, cut out all that “hatred” stuff! Are Muslims loving Jews when they call them the “descendants of pigs and monkeys”??

Are Muslims being loving when they compare the unbelievers (Jews and Christians included) to:

Faeces
Urine
Blood
Semen
Dogs
Pigs
Filth and animals that eat filth

Give us a break, please!

Vickie

 

[RomanCrusader]

Islam is a perverted, violent cult! The Moslem religion is filled with demons and antichrists. The savage Moslems wage their jihad against Christ to this very day.

Our brave crusader ancestors (well, most of them) had the right idea about Islam!

 

[bella5110]

Wow, Roman Crusader…right to the point, and I had people tell me that I was offending people? By the way, love the picture, it’s a reminder of how we must stand up for our faith and the one true God, The Father , Son and The Holy Spirit. One God forever and ever.

Jesus christ, the Son of The Living God. Who will reign forever and ever, until the ends of the world.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Hi Alpha,

Here is what the Catechism of the Catholic Church says about Muslims :

This means that sincere Muslims can be saved.

As for the belief of the Muslims relative to God, “Allah” is simply the Arabic word for God. (I personally find it inelegant to use “Allah”, as if it were some wild desert god.) Belîeving in the same God does not mean that we believe the same things *about *God.Whoever believes in God, who is a person and creator of all things and distinct from all things believes in the same God that we do.

For example, we believe that God is one nature in three persons. The Muslims do not believe this. Neither do the Jews. Abraham did not know about this either, nor did anyone before Christ. But they believed in the same God that we do.

Does this answer all your concerns?

Verbum

Not really.

To the OP:

catholicapologetics.info/modernproblems/ecumenism/worship.htm

It’s good read, and a lot of it makes very good sense. I hope it helps

In Pax Christi
Andrew

Very Good link! Thanks.

The greatest insult to anyone of you here is to have someone telling others in YOUR NAME to commit acts of atrocities and shame. And God is certainly no exception. Catechism or otherwise, its irrelevant.

Can I today inform everyone here that I met God who told me to have sex with 9 year old girls? To first speak for the demon and then turn around to tell you that God forgave me being a spokesman for the devil and then claim I am the greatest prophet? That I have been certified legitimate in murdering thousands and raping their wives? That God told me that the sun sets in a muddy spring? That God told me that Jesus is ONLY a prophet?

Please, we have more sense than that. As Catholics, we cannot and should not accept anything contrary to what God has laid down. Remember, trust in God, not in man.

Islam denies the deity of Jesus. And this ALONE warrants them to be labelled as anti-christ.

1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2 John 1:7
For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.

NOW WHICH OF YOU FELLOW CATHOLICS IS SAYING THAT ALLAH IS THE SAME GOD AS THE CHRISTIANS? PLEASE BEG FOR MERCY FROM YOUR LOCAL PRIESTS FOR ACKNOWLEDING THE DEVIL AS YOUR FATHER.

Even if the religion itself is incompatible with Christian theology, it does not take them (people and culture) away from the salvific plan of Christ.
Whether or not Allah is God, it is, nevertheless, their God. Can we honestly say that God is invincibly ignorant of their prayers?
It is a crime to say God shuts himself from non-believers. It will do God an injustice. The Church fathers have taught it so. We cannot dilute ourselves.

I’ve also wondered why many Catholics have pushed for ecumenism so much, as to say that “Muslims worship the same God as we do, just a different perspective.” It’s sad. If they did, what’s the point of Christ dying for EVERYONE’s sins, if they are allowed access to Heaven by not being a part of the Church.

Moreover, what’s the point of Evangelizing to Jews or Muslims, if they worship the same God? How soon will it be until Catholics say that Buddhists, and Hindus worship the same God?

Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus.(hope that’s right)

In Pax Christi
Andrew

I, pretty much, can ask the same thing about non-Catholic Christians. We cannot allow ourselves to dictate God on what he ough to do. Moreover, it is not the “Catholics” who pushed for ecumenism, it is the post-Vatican II Church.
Jews and Muslims have the same historical root. I’d doubt Buddhism has a god in it. And Hinduism is not monotheism.

It is sad when Church doctrine trumps the truth of God’s Holy Word. But there was no shortage of that even as John wrote. After all, what’s all the "overcommeth"ing about in Rev Chapter 2?

Seems to me like the Catholic Church caved in to Islam out of fear of persecution. I was saddened to see the Pope have an opportunity to stand up for Jesus, and instead it seemed he hedged.

I wouldn’t necessarily say 'Church doctrine trumps the truth of God’s Holy Word." Which doctrine? I beg to differ on your opinion about the Catholic Church. Not fear out of persecution. Look into what the traditional fathers have said and taught.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Charlie Charlie, love is not blind. A Christian must be a lover of truth. That is the very basic foundation of Christianity. And we have already showed you why Islam belongs to the Anti-Christ.

Loving them certainly does not mean telling them lies that their allah is a god! Please. By so doing you have already committed apostasy! Now, what has a heretic have to do with bringing people into the kingdom of God?..

Would we be lying if we say that ‘Allah’ is God? Think about it. How is it an apostacy?

AlphaOmega;1668968:

Very interesting responses…
I want to point out that, personally for me, I believe when they (Muslims) praise and worship “Allah” in all things good and proper, then there could be a chance for grace to come from the true God.QUOTE]

God responds to faith, not need. If Muslims are praying to Allah, God is not going to intervene, but if they asked for the one true God to intervene in their life, then God of the Christians, not Allah, would intervene.

I know a former Muslim that at his dieing moments, after the doctors said there was nothing they could do, and knowing that Allah nor Muhammad was not a healer, cried out for the one true God. It wasn’t Allah or Muhammad that showed, but Jesus Christ. The God of the Christians came to heal that dieing Muslim and now he is bringing Muslims to Christ all over the World. You can check his website out at www.wisdom-ministries.com

and read more on his incredible testimony.

We are not saved through our works but through Christ Jesus. Muslims can be the nicest person in the world, but we know in the Bible John 14:6, 7 Jesus says “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me. If you had known Me, you would have known My father”

It does not read, if you had known Muhammad, you would have known My Father.

Muslims believe that Jesus Christ was a man, and a prophet, but they do not believe that he is the son of God, nor accept him as their Lord and Savior who died on the cross for our sins, which is the whole basis of Christianity…

Again, here is another classical case when we try to dictate who God is. Everyone is in need of God’s salvation, whether we know it or not, or whether we like it or not. Faith is not an assurance of our salvation. Rom. xi.19-22., 1 Cor.ix.27, 1 Cor. x.12., Philipp. ii.12., Apoc. iii. 11. However, faith is necessary for our salvation. The nature of faith can be read as such.Heb. xi.1., Gal. v.6. Further reading, faith alone is not sufficient for salvation. Mark xii. 28-31, Rom. xiii. 8., Gal. v.14., Gal. vi. 2., 1 John iii. 7,8,10.
Your Muslim friend’s account does not suffice to what God is about. You cannot say God does not intervene based on one man’s story. However, I do not doubt God’s charitable love to help any soul, whether believer or non-believer. And, faith alone is not sufficient for justification. Read, James ii. 14, 17, 20, 24, 26., 1 Cor. xiii. 2, Gal. v. 6, Ecclus. i. 28., Luke xiii. 3., Acts iii. 19., 1John iii. 14.,
We must NOT take the Bible out of context. That’s why we need the Mother Church to help us know the Word of God.
I agree the the Muslim faith was not God-given. Nevertheless, it does not mean God cannot intervene to save those whom He wishes. Jesus Christ did not come to save only Christians, but all mankind.

Loving our neighbor is a given for a Christian. This shouldn’t need to be discussed. But we don’t love them by encouraging them to remain in Islam by telling them that their God is the same as ours. Their god is antichrist.

Their God is not the same as ours if they use that justification to be against Christians. It doesn’t mean our ‘true’ God does not hear their cry. God exists apart from their religion, but that does not constitute “Allah” from being anti-christ. Does it?

God has always had a plan of salvation for the Jews. However, I firmly believe that Islam is central to Bible Second Coming prophecy as the leopard-bear-lion beast described in Revelation 13. forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=119875

And if one didn’t recognize their role there, it is easy to recognize that they are antichrist.
Interesting…

Hi All,

“Allah’” IS the Arabic word for God. Arabic-speaking Christians, both Catholic and Orthodox, use it to mean God.

It is against Catholic doctrine, as stated in the Catechism, to associate Islam with the devil.

This thread contains something very close to the promotion of hatred and should be quashed beginning NOW.

Verbum

Which doctrine? The Catechism is infallibly declared?

 

[RomanCrusader]

Blessed Pope Urban II declared Moslems to be pagan savages.

How dare we say Moslems are surely on Gods plan of salvation? Do they accept Our Redeemer? No, they reject Him! Moslems actually deny that Jesus was crucified. They reject His sacrifice.

Even more disgusting is the “prophet” (more like pedophile) Mohammed. Moslems declare this warlord as equal to Christ!

I have nothing against Moslems as people, but their pagan cult is twisted and abominable!

 

[AlphaOmega]

Blessed Pope Urban II declared Moslems to be pagan savages.

How dare we say Moslems are surely on Gods plan of salvation? Do they accept Our Redeemer? No, they reject Him! Moslems actually deny that Jesus was crucified. They reject His sacrifice.

Even more disgusting is the “prophet” (more like pedophile) Mohammed. Moslems declare this warlord as equal to Christ!

I have nothing against Moslems as people, but their pagan cult is twisted and abominable!

Benedict XVI would probably consider Mozart as one of the greatest musicians in the world. What are we to think?
God desires all men to be saved. How is it possible that he desires something he does not assist?
It is a heresy to believe Christ came only for the elect. Look it up.
Everything else is between God and the person, of any faith. God does judgment on everyone. And, not every Christian accepts Christ’s sacrifice.

 

[inJESUS]

Really things are not that hard to comprehend. Muhammad did believe in the God of Abraham, so did Joseph Smith. A person can be a heretic while believing in the God of Abraham. Muhammad was a heretic who believed in the God of Abraham.

As to God listening to Muslims’ prayers, of course He does! we have miraculous healings granted by Jesus to Muslims who asked for it.and we know about Muslims who saw Jesus in visions and converted…God is love, and love is for all. As to salvation, i think we must leave it for God’s mercy

 

[kellie]

Kellie, I do not know of such a thing as a sacramentally acceptable divorce in the scripture.

According to the Head, none other than Jesus Christ Himself, that is. Divorce is never sacramentally acceptable, except for reasons of fornication by your spouse.

So, you see if you divorce and re-marry you have already committed adultery. Same with your spouse. Of course, not everyone can accept this, that is why you can say anything you like, but divorce is NEVER God’s will.

What is an Annulment?

An annulment (decree of nullity) is a declaration by the Church that a marriage is not considered binding for life. This does not mean that the parties are free of the continuing obligations of the union such as the welfare of children. An annulment does not deny that there was a wedding ceremony or erase the relationship that existed. Nor does it make any comment on any moral fault in the parties. Rather, a decree of nullity is a declaration by the Church that, at the time the couple attempted to exchange wedding vows, an essential element was lacking in the consent of at least one of them and thus the union which followed such a consent is not considered to be an obstacle to either party remarrying in the Catholic Church.

Who may apply?

Any divorced Catholic has the right to ask for an investigation of a previous marriage by the appropriate Tribunal of the Church. Any non Catholic divorced person remarried to a Catholic, intending to become a Catholic or intending marriage to a Catholic has the same right. Only a party to the marriage, however, may apply.

How is a decision reached?

When it is considered by the Tribunal that there is sufficient evidence for a decision to be reached, the formal (and private) sessions of the Tribunal are held. The parties are not required to attend. The defender of the marriage bond is always present to uphold the ideals of the Church on marriage and its permanence. The decision will be made by judges of the Tribunal, and they will declare either that the marriage is certainly invalid or that the evidence does not prove invalidity with certainty and so the presumption that the marriage is valid remains.

Is every application successful?

No. The decision rests entirely with the Tribunal after reviewing all the evidence. The fact that evidence is taken should not be interpreted as an indication of a favourable decision.

Even where an affirmative decision has been given, before being permitted to marry in the Church, it is quite possible that the applicant will be required to attend counselling together with the future spouse. Such counselling is a prudent requirement to safeguard the hope that the subsequent union will be successful. In cases where an incapacity for marriage has been proven, there may be a requirement that some form of counselling therapy be proven to have been beneficial before remarriage in the Church is possible.

Should a date be set for a wedding?

A booking for a Church wedding should not be made until a personal notification that a person is free to marry has been sent to the celebrant. An affirmative decision is never guaranteed until final ratification. Setting a tentative date before a final decision has been given often leads to disappointment since the investigation is a trial of the marriage and, like all trials, the outcome is subject to unforeseen difficulties. Setting a date for a wedding before the final decision is known places the applicant and their proposed partner, not to mention the Tribunal staff, under unreasonable and unnecessary pressure.

Is it all worthwhile?

For many, seeking a decree of nullity has some very painful and anxious moments. However, it can be a pastoral and therapeutic process as well as a legal procedure. Many applicants find that the process itself, and the sensitive approach of the tribunal staff, can be an experience of healing and an opportunity to face up to debilitating memories of the past.

Moreover, whether a decree of nullity be issued or not, the decision should bring peace of mind to the parties who have been wondering or questioning whether the Church would regard the marriage in question as binding for life or not.

Naturally, decrees of nullity bring many the satisfaction of being able to celebrate a planned remarriage in the Catholic Church, or to have another marriage (already entered) validated and recognised by the Church. But even those who petition unsuccessfully for a decree of nullity can at least make their future plans informed with a clear understanding of their marital status as far as the Church tribunal can determine.

Yes pumpqeen, divorces are allowed sometimes. We can remarry in the Catholic Church sometimes.
If the marriage failed sacramentally.

 

[Verbum]

Hi All,

I thought we were the good guys. I rest my case.

Verbum

 

[Valke2]

Interesting fact. The United States has 6% of the world’s catholics but grants 78% of the world’s annulments. Either there is something in our water or the standard for granting an annulments differs widely from country to country. The church grants about 59,000 “annulments” annualy in the US. 40 years ago, it granted less than 600. It looks as if the distinction between divorce and annulment has become a bit blurry.

catholicinsight.com/online/church/divorce/c_annul.shtml

 

[Loginus]

wow…I never thought I’d say this, but after reading this thread I really do feel the world would be a better place w/o Christianity or Islam. For all the good Jesus taught, you ppl have somehow managed to pervet his msg to one of hate and I do find quite disgusting

 

[amoxoxoma]

Really things are not that hard to comprehend. Muhammad did believe in the God of Abraham, so did Joseph Smith. A person can be a heretic while believing in the God of Abraham. Muhammad was a heretic who believed in the God of Abraham.

As to God listening to Muslims’ prayers, of course He does! we have miraculous healings granted by Jesus to Muslims who asked for it.and we know about Muslims who saw Jesus in visions and converted…God is love, and love is for all. As to salvation, i think we must leave it for God’s mercy

Thank you InJesus!!!

You are a voice of Catholic sanity in the face of some pretty un-christian attitudes by some posters on this thread. All are loved by God, sinners and saints, heretics and believers. Jesus came to save us all in His love. I think the Catholic Catechism got it right as Verbum quouted here: forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=1667517&postcount=3

Beyond that, yes, we can condemn some muslim’s behavior, especially those who justify terrorism on the basis of their understanding of the Quran and Sunna.

 

[bella5110]

wow…I never thought I’d say this, but after reading this thread I really do feel the world would be a better place w/o Christianity or Islam. For all the good Jesus taught, you ppl have somehow managed to pervet his msg to one of hate and I do find quite disgusting

Umm…didn’t you feel like that already?

 

[Loginus]

Umm…didn’t you feel like that already?

Not at all. I used to spend my time trolling a very anti-theist forum. I dont know how many flames I got and how much brow-beatings I took from defending Christianity from some very ignorant Atheists.

I dont know if you’ve noticed but for all the jabbing I do to Christians, its more about their behavior and strange theology as opposed to the msgs of Jesus or even Jesus himself.
I may be a Nihilist, but it doesnt mean I dont believe ther isnt truth behind jesus’ words.

But as I said, reading these forums (and this thread (name removed by moderator)articular) its very easy to mistake Christians for hate-mongerers