The Great Monarch

[spauline]

Also before the six trumpets come to pass God will command his angels to seal his children as described in Revelation chapter 7. This will be a special grace for the people of that time:

Must we be like Fundamentalists in this regard? Can’t we see the “Seal of God” and the “Mark of the Beast” as more figuratve, like how those “sealed in the forehead” are those who are protected from being harmed in their intellect, that is, from being led astray in doctrine, which is the seal that all faithful Catholics have possessed throughout her entire history, and that therefore the Trumpets are more a symbol of spiritual attacks on the Church’s doctrinal development, thereby symbolizing various intermediate religious conditions where individuals lack a certain degree of truth, but that only at the end, in the Mark of Beast, do we have full children of the devil, that is, apostates, persons who deny the totality of God’s truth and who are therefore their own god in their mind?

And not only that, but what really is the purpose of knowing how individual nations will destroy one another or suffer natural disasters, when this is irrelevant to Public Rev. As far as i’m concerned, the real question we should be asking is, what will the fullness of the Gentiles consist in spiritually? Will all heresies be destoryed and the current minor apostasy healed? Or are the pessimistic Augustinians correct, with “there will always be significant evil”? Will Christians be reunited? Will Catholic doctrine be vindicated in history ever? Or will the world never go through an apostasy and tribulation that teaches them a lesson and be restored to faith?

But knowing, “Well first France will do this, then the Prussians that, and then there will be a meteorite, etc” is really questions that are irrelevant. That’s stuff that fundies obsess over, IMHO.

 

[Ron_Conte]

And not only that, but what really is the purpose of knowing how individual nations will destroy one another or suffer natural disasters, when this is irrelevant to Public Rev. As far as i’m concerned, the real question we should be asking is, what will the fullness of the Gentiles consist in spiritually? Will all heresies be destoryed and the current minor apostasy healed? Or are the pessimistic Augustinians correct, with “there will always be significant evil”? Will Christians be reunited? Will Catholic doctrine be vindicated in history ever? Or will the world never go through an apostasy and tribulation that teaches them a lesson and be restored to faith?

The overly figurative approach to the Book of Revelation is not in accord with the teaching of Church fathers, Saints and Blesseds throughout the history of the Church. There will indeed eventually be an Antichrist, in the distant future, one man who of his own free will chooses to be evil and to do evil, and who gains control over nearly the whole world for a brief reign.

The minor apostasy (i.e. the apostasy of the first part of the tribulation) has not yet begun. It will begin under the next Pope (who I believe will be Cardinal Arinze/Pope Pius XIII). He will require those who receive the Eucharist to believe and practice the Catholic faith. Beginning then most Catholics will leave the Church.

Christians must one day be united in one Catholic Church, for Christ prayed that his disciples be one and he prayer cannot fail, nor can the will and grace of God fail to be effective.

The tribulation is predicted by Scripture, as is the rebellion (apostasy) before the return of Christ, so these cannot fail to occur.

Ron Conte

 

[zorrox]

Isn’t the mark of the beast an infernal mocking of the seal of confirmation as the “black mass” is a mocking of the Sacrifice of the Mass?

 

[Ron_Conte]

Isn’t the mark of the beast an infernal mocking of the seal of confirmation as the “black mass” is a mocking of the Sacrifice of the Mass?

The mark of the beast is a perverse imitation of the Seal of the living God, described in the Book of Revelation, chapter 7.

Ron

 

[Jennifer123]

Must we be like Fundamentalists in this regard? Can’t we see the “Seal of God” and the “Mark of the Beast” as more figuratve, like how those “sealed in the forehead” are those who are protected from being harmed in their intellect, that is, from being led astray in doctrine, which is the seal that all faithful Catholics have possessed throughout her entire history, and that therefore the Trumpets are more a symbol of spiritual attacks on the Church’s doctrinal development, thereby symbolizing various intermediate religious conditions where individuals lack a certain degree of truth, but that only at the end, in the Mark of Beast, do we have full children of the devil, that is, apostates, persons who deny the totality of God’s truth and who are therefore their own god in their mind?

I think this is as good a theory as anything else I’ve heard, and it’s possible that in its own way it will be true. Many things in the Bible, like in Revelation, have more than one literal meaning, like the destruction of the Temple in 80AD (??) also having meaning to us today and in the future.
But IMHO we also have the gift of the saints who through different charisms of the Holy Spirit have also discerned these events much like Ron and others have theorized. Just because these ideas share similarities with those from our Protestant bretheren doesn’t mean it’s wrong IMHO.

And not only that, but what really is the purpose of knowing how individual nations will destroy one another or suffer natural disasters, when this is irrelevant to Public Rev. As far as i’m concerned, the real question we should be asking is, what will the fullness of the Gentiles consist in spiritually? Will all heresies be destoryed and the current minor apostasy healed? Or are the pessimistic Augustinians correct, with “there will always be significant evil”? Will Christians be reunited? Will Catholic doctrine be vindicated in history ever? Or will the world never go through an apostasy and tribulation that teaches them a lesson and be restored to faith?

But knowing, “Well first France will do this, then the Prussians that, and then there will be a meteorite, etc” is really questions that are irrelevant. That’s stuff that fundies obsess over, IMHO.

**It’s interesting to some and not to others. To those who are interested it is important to remember that only God in heaven knows the details and the Church teaches us the only real important thing to “obsess” over is our own individual “end times”, which can happen any day. **

 

[spauline]

The overly figurative approach to the Book of Revelation is not in accord with the teaching of Church fathers, Saints and Blesseds throughout the history of the Church. There will indeed eventually be an Antichrist, in the distant future, one man who of his own free will chooses to be evil and to do evil, and who gains control over nearly the whole world for a brief reign.

The minor apostasy (i.e. the apostasy of the first part of the tribulation) has not yet begun. It will begin under the next Pope (who I believe will be Cardinal Arinze/Pope Pius XIII). He will require those who receive the Eucharist to believe and practice the Catholic faith. Beginning then most Catholics will leave the Church.

Christians must one day be united in one Catholic Church, for Christ prayed that his disciples be one and he prayer cannot fail, nor can the will and grace of God fail to be effective.

The tribulation is predicted by Scripture, as is the rebellion (apostasy) before the return of Christ, so these cannot fail to occur.

Ron Conte

I do not advocate an overly figurative meaning of Rev. that is **** like preterits and idealists like to trump. But the apoc cannot really be useful in the sense you seem to be talking about, that is, that it will tell us about temporal calamities and how WWVI or whatever it is will take place. The issue is how the Church will recognize not just WHEN humanity has fallen away from the Gospel, but when it will have fallen away in a manner that it CANNOT BE RESTORED TO FAITH practically. And recognizing that has nothing to do with ten kings of europe or what prussia will do to france or any other irrelevatn thing. It has to do precisely of understanding when Christ will have given everything that he can possibly give to humanity in terms of the Redemption. Hence, the questions are then, will the current apostasy be healed

(and what do you mean the minor apostasy has not already occurred? I think you misunderstand “apostasy”? I think you see it as individual persons being Catholic and then not being Catholic. I think it is more of a historical process, in the sense that societies gradually over longer periods of generations decay in their religious condition, like the last 500 years. Under this condition, Father Most already said that the minor apostasy is here in the intro to Birch’;s book. If you don’t recognize an a culture that is practically apostate, you must be living in a cave)

which is inseparable from “will Christians be reunited”? Will a glorisou and multiple century age of Peace Catholic “millennium” reign, or are the Augustinians right who say the world can never be fully made in Christ’s image because, as they pessimistically trump, “there will always signficant evil because of sin”?

Personally, I truly believe that Christendom will be reunited, but I can’t imagine this period of peace will just be like a mere generation. If the age of peace is not going to be at least several centuries, if not a millennium, then what difference does it make? How can God’s Revelation be vindicated if the restoration only lasts some pathetic 25 years before the Great Apostasy? How does that give us seventh day rest, if the totality of human history is 10,000 years or more? the seventh day is a mere sliver of a century, compared to 9,950 years of sin? That’s absurd. At least God could predestine like 400 years of spiritual and materialistic prosperity, so that it in some sense approach the general time period of six “days of work”.

 

[bones_IV]

The overly figurative approach to the Book of Revelation is not in accord with the teaching of Church fathers, Saints and Blesseds throughout the history of the Church. There will indeed eventually be an Antichrist, in the distant future, one man who of his own free will chooses to be evil and to do evil, and who gains control over nearly the whole world for a brief reign.

The minor apostasy (i.e. the apostasy of the first part of the tribulation) has not yet begun. It will begin under the next Pope (who I believe will be Cardinal Arinze/Pope Pius XIII). He will require those who receive the Eucharist to believe and practice the Catholic faith. Beginning then most Catholics will leave the Church.

Christians must one day be united in one Catholic Church, for Christ prayed that his disciples be one and he prayer cannot fail, nor can the will and grace of God fail to be effective.

The tribulation is predicted by Scripture, as is the rebellion (apostasy) before the return of Christ, so these cannot fail to occur.

Ron Conte

How do you know that Cardinal Arinze will be the next pope? You don’t.

 

[bones_IV]

**
catholic planet
Question from kmarie on 8/3/2006:** ewtnkids.net/images/printer.gif Hi, I came across this website, Catholic Planet. The owner states that he is a Roman Catholic Theologian etc. He gives specific information regarding end times etc. Do you know if this is a reputable catholic site? Thank you

**
Answer by Colin B. Donovan, STL on 9/7/2006:** He seems to base much on calling himself a Catholic theologian, but does not tell us the basis of that claim. However, some of his material, such as his claim that the Virgin Mary was, like Our Lord, conceived virginally and born virginally, are beyond far-fetched and without any basis whatsoever in Church tradition or theology.
In any case, if you want to know Catholic teaching on the end times, read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, beginning at paragraph 668.
If you wish to know what Catholic apparitions and mystics approved by the Magisterium (reliable sources, but NOT thereby part of Catholic teaching) say about the endtimes get Desmond Birch’s book “Trial, Tribulation and Triumph,” (clink on link for EWTN Religious Catalogue).
If you wish an overview of both the teaching and the approved mystics, get Desmond’s and my video series The Last Things: In Time and Eternity.
See also the summary in my FAQ Endtimes, Millennium, Rapture.
Finally, keep in mind that while there are abundant claims of apparitions and mysticism today, none of the ongoing ones can claim approval of the Church, whereas, there is a tradition of approved mystics that reasonably can claim our attention, though not our faith. Stick with them and also keep your peace.

COPYRIGHT 2006

If your really a theologian as you say you are, then how do you explain your faulty explanation that the Virgin Mary was, like Our Lord, conceived virginally and born virginally? You didn’t answer my previous question. Ron, you’ve got some explaining to do.

 

[spauline]

dear Ron,

actually, I wish apologize about some of my above comments. I guess I don’t know for sure how we are to interpret ‘apostasy’, and I can definitely see your scenario taking place, for there are myriads of Catholics in the lukewarm West who want the Church to preach what they, in sin, practice, instead of conforming themselves to the truth. So I can definitely see that if whoever is Pontiff coming out and saying, “You may not partake of the Eucharist lest you accept the totality of Church teaching”, that scores of Catholics would walk out.

But what i wanted to emphasize is that, even though such mass exodus has not yet occurred, nevertheless, the general cultures of the first and second world nations are, for the most part, in a condition that embraces beliefs and lifestyles that are basically totally opposed to the Gospel, despite the fact that at one time, Europe used to be primarily Christian, especially in the Middle Ages, so that, ***historically speaking, ***the comparison of Europe in the MA days with now is an apostate contrast, more or less.

And I don’t mean to deny that the Great Apostasy and Antichrist come inevitably, I know this part of public Rev. Hence, I realize that even if a great restoration and Age of Peace does come, it will not last forever, that is, it will eventually give way to the Great Apostasy.

I guess my point was, once humanity is an apostate condition spiritually, wars and other horrors are the inevitable fruit of that, seeing as that if man has not peace with God, he cannot have peace with his fellow man, as suggested especially by the presumed messages from Medjurogje. But then my point was, when humanity is in this condition, knowing what SPECIFICALLY is going to take place in terms of TEMPORAL horrors is not really practical, because regardless, it will be terrible. How it plays out specifically is not really relevant. That is why I believe that the ultimate meaning we are to get from the Apocalyptic data is a psychologically spiritual analysis, both of the age of the Church, and the whole of Salvation history, so that the Church will be able to discern when humanity has reached the fullness of the Redemption within history (ie., the fullness of the Gentiles), so that it will know when the FINAL falling away is at hand. Does that make sense? Maybe I’m not explaingin this right?

Again, I am sorry for being rude, I will try to be more respectful and charitable in the future.

yours in Her,
scott

 

[spauline]

Dear Jennifer,

yes, I think you are right, I am being a little over critical. You are very right that Scripture can have multiple layers of meaning, and so I think I should hold my opinion only as one layer of meaning amongst other simultaneous meanings.

It’s just that I felt that being protected spiritually from being led astray in doctrine is a far more important protection than being protected from physical harm. But, I suppose you are right, maybe God will specially protect Catholics in the end times from certain temporal calamities.

I also agree that it is most important for us to be vigilant of our own particular judgement.

blessings to you!
scott


btw, which interp did you think was reasonable? the Mystics one or the one I suggested? Or both? I’m just curious!

 

[Ron_Conte]

How do you know that Cardinal Arinze will be the next pope? You don’t.

I think that Arinze will be the next Pope partly because of a private revelation to a group called the Brides of the Most Blessed Trinity, a lay apostolate praying for the ordained. They do not usual receive private revelations about the future, but they had a vision of Cardinal Arinze wearing a Pope’s hat.

Also, Arinze fits the description given by St. Malachy of Peter the Roman, in that he emphasizes the authority of the Roman Pontiff and the primacy of the Roman Catholic Faith. He is very conservative, like the description of Peter the Roman.

One of the Pope Pius’ had a vision of a future Pope, also called Pius, who was martyred. This description also fits Peter the Roman, who dies a martyr.

There are some other reasons.

So while I don’t literally ‘know’ that Arinze will be the next Pope, I have good reason to believe that he will be.

Ron

 

[Ron_Conte]

Does that make sense? Maybe I’m not explaingin this right?

Again, I am sorry for being rude, I will try to be more respectful and charitable in the future.

yours in Her,
scott

No problem. I am not easily offended.

I have some very specific ideas about the future, but this is not required doctrine, it is speculative eschatology. You are free to disagree.

I believe that the groundwork for the great apostasy (part one) is already laid in that most Catholics do not believe what the Catholic Church teaches. Most Catholics are heretics, only they don’t know it.

But when it does occur, I think that it will literally involve most Catholics leaving the Church, so that instead of a billion Catholics, there will be much less than half that number. Masses will be sparsely attended; parishes will consider closing; income to diocese will drop dramatically. etc.

Ron

 

[Ron_Conte]

If your really a theologian as you say you are, then how do you explain your faulty explanation that the Virgin Mary was, like Our Lord, conceived virginally and born virginally?

There are similarities and differences between the conceptions and births of Jesus and Mary.
See my lengthly article:
catholicplanet.com/virgin/virginity-Jesus-Mary.htm
or its summary:
catholicplanet.com/virgin/index.htm

Mary’s virginal conception and birth was taught by Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. I make arguments for this speculative theological idea based on Scripture and on Tradition.

Ron Conte

 

[Jennifer123]

Dear Jennifer,

yes, I think you are right, I am being a little over critical. You are very right that Scripture can have multiple layers of meaning, and so I think I should hold my opinion only as one layer of meaning amongst other simultaneous meanings.

It’s just that I felt that being protected spiritually from being led astray in doctrine is a far more important protection than being protected from physical harm. But, I suppose you are right, maybe God will specially protect Catholics in the end times from certain temporal calamities.

I also agree that it is most important for us to be vigilant of our own particular judgement.

blessings to you!
scott


btw, which interp did you think was reasonable? the Mystics one or the one I suggested? Or both? I’m just curious!

I agree - we do need to be more aware of our spiritual protection for our own “endtimes”.

I honestly think your interpretation is just as likely to happen in some sort of fashion if it’s not happening already. I tend to believe there probably is a spiritual and corporal element in Church-approved prophecy. Ron readily admits that he isn’t “Church approved”, nor is he a mystic. It’s just his opinions on what may happen in the future.

I find it interesting because I want to look for the signs and be ready like Jesus instructs but certainly try not to let it influence every aspect of my life as to be unhealthy.

 

[Eireann]

Don’t know exactly, but read about it in this book, that I purchased about 4 or 5 years ago.

 

[bones_IV]

There are similarities and differences between the conceptions and births of Jesus and Mary.
See my lengthly article:
catholicplanet.com/virgin/virginity-Jesus-Mary.htm
or its summary:
catholicplanet.com/virgin/index.htm

Mary’s virginal conception and birth was taught by Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich. I make arguments for this speculative theological idea based on Scripture and on Tradition.

Ron Conte

As far as your description on the end times goes, I prefer EWTN’s explanation any day, since your site holds little credidibility.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm

 

[Jennifer123]

As far as your description on the end times goes, I prefer EWTN’s explanation any day, since your site holds little credidibility.

ewtn.com/expert/answers/endtimes.htm

Hi Bones-
I think you may be being a little harsh towards Ron here, he has never claimed to receive any private revelation, he is only publishing his opinions based on his own research and cites whatever it is he takes an opinion from.
You are free to disagree but IMHO let’s not get personal. :twocents:

 

[bones_IV]

Hi Bones-
I think you may be being a little harsh towards Ron here, he has never claimed to receive any private revelation, he is only publishing his opinions based on his own research and cites whatever it is he takes an opinion from.
You are free to disagree but IMHO let’s not get personal. :twocents:

Really? Then I suggest you read what David Gregson has to say about his site.

Catholic Planet Web site
Question from on 08-24-2006: Can you tell me please if this web site by Rchard L. Conti Jr. www.catholicplanet.com is acceptible to Catholic teaching? He posts a schedule of events to take place up to and beyond the year 2035…Thank You Bill Lodico

Answer by David Gregson on 09-29-2006: The predictions on that site are speculative, based apparently on scripture texts, private revelations, and current events. They add up to a possible scenario, but not the only one possible. It seems unlikely the dates can be relied on. The Church doesn’t make predictions of that sort. The danger of too detailed a scenario is that, when the events prophesied actually take place, they may not be recognized, because they don’t fit expectations, as happened when Jewish scholars didn’t recognize the coming of the Messiah in the First Century.

This is for this reason why I think people should stay away from catholicplanet as it teaches a warped version of the faith.

 

[Jennifer123]

Really? Then I suggest you read what David Gregson has to say about his site.

Catholic Planet Web site
Question from on 08-24-2006: Can you tell me please if this web site by Rchard L. Conti Jr. www.catholicplanet.com is acceptible to Catholic teaching? He posts a schedule of events to take place up to and beyond the year 2035…Thank You Bill Lodico

Answer by David Gregson on 09-29-2006: The predictions on that site are speculative, based apparently on scripture texts, private revelations, and current events. They add up to a possible scenario, but not the only one possible. It seems unlikely the dates can be relied on. The Church doesn’t make predictions of that sort. The danger of too detailed a scenario is that, when the events prophesied actually take place, they may not be recognized, because they don’t fit expectations, as happened when Jewish scholars didn’t recognize the coming of the Messiah in the First Century.

This is for this reason why I think people should stay away from catholicplanet as it teaches a warped version of the faith.

“The predictions on that site are speculative”.

Exactly - he will be the first to admit that. I think you have a point about prophecy but to say that he presents a “warped sense of the faith” is IMHO taking it a bit too far.

 

[Ferdinand_Mary]

As a general reminder, please keep all posts free from ad hominem attacks, and please self-edit for content/tone prior to hitting the submit button.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation and understanding,
Ferdinand Mary