The greatest freedom is freedom from worldly pleasures!

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Robert_Sock

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The only pleasures we should strive for are the pleasure we receive from the services of God. Eating, for example, should not be done for pleasure, but so we may gain strength to do God’s will. Sex should be undertaken for the sake of procreation alone. Pleasures that do not draw us closer to God, should not be sought. Not that seeking these pleasure for their own sake are unlawful, but that they will not lead to sainthood.

To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
 
Robert_Sock said:
To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
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Bob, I’m afraid I’m going to have to miss your Super Bowl party.🍿

Shalom
 
Robert_Sock said:
The only pleasures we should strive for are the pleasure we receive from the services of God. Eating, for example, should not be done for pleasure, but so we may gain strength to do God’s will. Sex should be undertaken for the sake of procreation alone. Pleasures that do not draw us closer to God, should not be sought. Not that seeking these pleasure for their own sake are unlawful, but that they will not lead to sainthood.

To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
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Frankly. that is nonsense!! We have seen many of your threads about this and also we should not watch movies or sports etc etc etc.

If you wish to sit alone in a desert cave and contemplate that is your right under the freewill given to us by God but please do not dictate to us what we should and shouldn’t do.
I
 
Robert_Sock said:
The only pleasures we should strive for are the pleasure we receive from the services of God. Eating, for example, should not be done for pleasure, but so we may gain strength to do God’s will. Sex should be undertaken for the sake of procreation alone. Pleasures that do not draw us closer to God, should not be sought. Not that seeking these pleasure for their own sake are unlawful, but that they will not lead to sainthood.

To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
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Still going on about this, I see. An ascetical life, wisely undertaken should lead to humility. Your statement here, though, is heavy with pride. I can only ask what I did the last time I responded to you six months to a year ago: what has your spiritual director to say about all of this?
 
WHile agreeing with the other posters… I live a life of great simplicity as some of you are aware, Living close to the land, none of what are called luxuries, partly perforce, partly spiritually.

In a basic cottage in a wild place…

As others in a similar lifestyle will aver; what this does is make for a deeper thankfulness for all the graces and blessings of this earthly life that God blesses us with, A deeper pleasure in eg simple food, a rainbow, a birdsong.

All these things bring us closer to God who gives these things to use to enjoy and grow in, not to despise and reject.

We are nowhere told to despise earthly pleasures. To keep them in proportion, yes,
I would hate the example you quote! Not my scene. But to others? A refreshment, a joy…

Not do I see those we call saints despising these things. Francis certainly did not.

Maybe define ascetical?

If you mean starvation and a hair shirt?

And surely enjoying that life would be a greater sin that the other?
 
People can mock me if they wish, but what I say is in The Imitation of Christ, and is consistent with the lives of many of the saints! Would John the Baptist watch football while drinking beer and eating pizza? Righteousness comes in many levels and much of our worldly pleasures, although permissible, are stumbling blocks when it comes to living a saintly life!

How would you describe a saintly life?
 
Robert_Sock said:
The only pleasures we should strive for are the pleasure we receive from the services of God. Eating, for example, should not be done for pleasure, but so we may gain strength to do God’s will. Sex should be undertaken for the sake of procreation alone. Pleasures that do not draw us closer to God, should not be sought. Not that seeking these pleasure for their own sake are unlawful, but that they will not lead to sainthood.

To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
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I agree.

What might be overlooked is that freedom from worldly pleasure is a process. As a person grows spiritually he naturally turns away from material pleasures and directs his attention more and more toward God.
 
MtnDwellar said:
I agree.

What might be overlooked is that freedom from worldly pleasure is a process. As a person grows spiritually he naturally turns away from material pleasures and directs his attention more and more toward God.
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Yes, it’s definitely a process, and I still have ways to go!
 
Robert_Sock said:
People can mock me if they wish, but what I say is in The Imitation of Christ, and is consistent with the lives of many of the saints! Would John the Baptist watch football while drinking beer and eating pizza? Righteousness comes in many levels and much of our worldly pleasures, although permissible, are stumbling blocks when it comes to living a saintly life!

How would you describe a saintly life?
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“Imitation of Christ” is a handbook for those very experienced already in religious life. Period. Not for lay folk not in monastic vows. Period.

You are not John the Baptist. And you have no idea how he lived within the context of his contemporary life. He may well have enjoyed many things. Pleasure within limits is not a sin. . Hubris on the other hand?

The keystone of any life in Jesus is humility. Taking deep spiritual direction from someone wise and experienced.

As I and other living the hermit life do and have. Because God humbles us to sanctify us.

God chooses saints and empowers them, not us.
 
To paraphrase a quote I have somewhere. The spiritual will not be attained until the material has been extinguished. How much of an attachment do I have for the material? I believe that is the question needed to be asked. Freedom from worldly pleasures is the way-this doesn’t mean not to enjoy worldly pleasures but not be attached to them, not be a slave to them. Most of us are householders/laypersons and not renunciates. We live in this world so it’s necessary to partake of this world.
We can still reach sainthood, enlightenment, salvation without living in a cave. It just takes longer in my humble opinion.
 
Rosebud77 said:
“Imitation of Christ” is a handbook for those very experienced already in religious life. Period. Not for lay folk not in monastic vows. Period.

You are not John the Baptist. And you have no idea how he lived within the context of his contemporary life. He may well have enjoyed many things. Pleasure within limits is not a sin. . Hubris on the other hand?

The keystone of any life in Jesus is humility. Taking deep spiritual direction from someone wise and experienced.

As I and other living the hermit life do and have. Because God humbles us to sanctify us.

God chooses saints and empowers them, not us.
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The Imitation of Christ is an instructional book available and applicable to all Christians. Look, I’m not trying to force the saintly views expressed by the Imitation and The Stations of the Cross by St, Francis of Assisi on anybody. All I’m suggesting is that forgoing worldly pleasures is one sign of a saint and that it’s a great blessing for those who can achieve it.

Again, please feel free to express what characteristics you see as saintly!
 
Saintly characteristics:

Healthy balance between own needs and the needs of others
Joy in life
Appreciation for nature, family , friends
Able to let concern for others override fear of others
Spends time nurturing inner relationship with God
Willing to take risk when hearing an inner call
Similar to good manners: considerate of others, polite, gentle, courteous, hospitable
Able to maintain inner and outer peace in contentious situations and trials
Optimistic
Endures suffering with patience
 
When you really think about it, both sides of this thread are correct. Mr Rob here is correct in saying that all things should lead towards and glorify God. Our work, our sufferings, and our pleasures should be given up to God.

On the opposite side we should enjoy the things of this world God gives them to us as a little taste of Heaven. A little reminder saying this is just a foreshadow of what can be yours if you follow My ways.

Either way I don’t plan to be watching the Super Bowl, or drinking beer, but that’s my way…anyone wants to join me feel free!!!
 
Michael_Mayo said:
Saintly characteristics:

Healthy balance between own needs and the needs of others
Joy in life
Appreciation for nature, family , friends
Able to let concern for others override fear of others
Spends time nurturing inner relationship with God
Willing to take risk when hearing an inner call
Similar to good manners: considerate of others, polite, gentle, courteous, hospitable
Able to maintain inner and outer peace in contentious situations and trials
Optimistic
Endures suffering with patience
Click to expand...
I agree but I think you need to expand on what you call “Joy in life.” For me, I feel the urge to sacrifice worldly pleasures in order to enjoy the fruits of the Holy Spirit. Anticipating, and working towards, Heaven is also a worthwhile joy.
 
Hi Robert,

I too have embraced much of the theology that you have posted about here, for myself, but only because most of my life was led in such a sinful manner. I drank every day to excess and had the morals of a tom cat. I ate for the sake of eating. I was bound for hell in a big way.

The Lord in his great mercy chose to save me for some reason that escapes me, and for that I will always be grateful. I knew that I not only had to come to the church, but I had to live a life of penance. I am fine with that. I will be grateful till my last breath, to the Lord for saving me. I do think however, that what I have taken on, is not wholly necessary for all Catholics.

Most Catholics I don’t think lived a life of debauchery that I did. Therefore I think for most Catholics, as long as they take part of the sacraments, live a good and upright life as much as possible, pray and so on, that is enough for them. There are those who want or need more, and thank goodness for that, but for most, I would hope that what I have described here is enough.

I know you are evangelizing for a life more pleasing to God, and you will be rewarded for it, if your motives are pure. There are those who choose to wear this cloak, but by and large I think it is up to them as to which level to aspire. I wish I could do more justice to what I feel about this, but I have to go to work. Continue to post as you like, but I hope what I have said, makes some kin of sense.

May God bless you.
 
Robert_Sock said:
People can mock me if they wish, but what I say is in The Imitation of Christ, and is consistent with the lives of many of the saints! Would John the Baptist watch football while drinking beer and eating pizza? Righteousness comes in many levels and much of our worldly pleasures, although permissible, are stumbling blocks when it comes to living a saintly life!

How would you describe a saintly life?
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At first I thought you were joking, i guess you weren’t.

I dont think the church teaches that each person must abandon all pleasures, God made them, he made them pleasurable for our own enjoyment. heck I think God is happy when i enjoy the good thing he created, my enjoyment must glorify him if not he wouldnt have created man in a paradise.
What the church teaches is detachment, that i may recognise God as the giver of all good things and use them moderately without making them gods.
Abandoning pleasures is a totally different beast for those who are called
 
esieffe said:
Hi Robert,

I too have embraced much of the theology that you have posted about here, for myself, but only because most of my life was led in such a sinful manner. I drank every day to excess and had the morals of a tom cat. I ate for the sake of eating. I was bound for hell in a big way.

The Lord in his great mercy chose to save me for some reason that escapes me, and for that I will always be grateful. I knew that I not only had to come to the church, but I had to live a life of penance. I am fine with that. I will be grateful till my last breath, to the Lord for saving me. I do think however, that what I have taken on, is not wholly necessary for all Catholics.

Most Catholics I don’t think lived a life of debauchery that I did. Therefore I think for most Catholics, as long as they take part of the sacraments, live a good and upright life as much as possible, pray and so on, that is enough for them. There are those who want or need more, and thank goodness for that, but for most, I would hope that what I have described here is enough.

I know you are evangelizing for a life more pleasing to God, and you will be rewarded for it, if your motives are pure. There are those who choose to wear this cloak, but by and large I think it is up to them as to which level to aspire. I wish I could do more justice to what I feel about this, but I have to go to work. Continue to post as you like, but I hope what I have said, makes some kin of sense.

May God bless you.
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I tried to emphasize that there are many levels of sainthood and that many worldly pleasures are perfectly lawful from a Catholic perspective. The purpose of my post was to simply let people see that sacrificing worldly pleasure can be a righteous act that leads to higher-ordered spiritual benefits. It’s our choice.
 
Are you suggesting that laypeople refrain from following The Imitation of Christ? Can’t a layperson such as myself try to live a saintly life? Who are you to suggest that they can’t?
 
Robert_Sock said:
The only pleasures we should strive for are the pleasure we receive from the services of God. Eating, for example, should not be done for pleasure, but so we may gain strength to do God’s will. Sex should be undertaken for the sake of procreation alone. Pleasures that do not draw us closer to God, should not be sought. Not that seeking these pleasure for their own sake are unlawful, but that they will not lead to sainthood.

To think that God wants us to enjoy football while eating pizza and drinking beer is a fallacy, and will not lead to sainthood.
Click to expand...
Sainthood is proof that one is in heaven, so what youre telling everyone is unless we do as you claim we need to do, we will not get into heaven?
 
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