The green issue that dare not speak its name

[summasix]

So animals didn’t prey on each and there was no food chain before the fall. There were also no rainforests.

Riiight.

:whacky:

I never made any of these arguments. You, my friend, are seeing things that aren’t really there. I think that’s a medical condition.:hypno:

Actually I brought up this (diversion), made statements, she agreed and backed them up with links, (some of which I’d looked at anyway but the data seemed to lack a source so I didn’t post them).

Sure, take all the credit.

Did you bother to look at any of the links that were provided? The facts in them, if you accept them as such, don’t back up your ‘truth’.

Yes, as a matter of fact. If you read any of my posts you would read into the illusory elements of rhetoric that I used. I was not supporting a position per se, I was rather trying to extract all the information out of Calliso that I could. Environmentalists wonder why there is such opposition to them; they expect people to just buy their generalizations with little factual substance to back them up. If they tried to persuade skeptics, like Calliso, we likely wouldn’t even be arguing over global warming right now.

 

[cynic]

I never made any of these arguments. You, my friend, are seeing things that aren’t really there. I think that’s a medical condition.:hypno:
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Is that so:

Nature is original sin exemplified. The amount of violence, animals killing animals mercilessly and instinctively. Animals do not serve a higher purpose, only attempt to further their own survival. How often do animals pray, donate money charity, or make pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Never. Nature is in no way a fellowship of animals, like it is portrayed on Finding Nemo.
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Perphaps you should add sarcasm tags to either side of these comments. If you were joking that is:hypno:

Yes, as a matter of fact. If you read any of my posts you would read into the illusory elements of rhetoric that I used.
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Well apologies then. We weren’t up to speed with your use of illusory elements of rhetoric.

I was not supporting a position per se, I was rather trying to extract all the information out of Calliso that I could. .

Yet the “nature is fallen” comment came well before anyone took a (serious) position on deforestation.

 

[summasix]

Is that so…

Well…maybe not…but calling me wacky for making arguments I did not make is not entirely honest either.

Perphaps you should add sarcasm tags to either side of these comments. If you were joking that is:hypno:

I was partially joking. I was partially making a point. Sarcasm tags would have clarified the sarcasm, but further confuse my position in the debate.

Well apologies then. We weren’t up to speed with your use of illusory elements of rhetoric.

Once there was a letter to the editor in my local paper that responded to the pit bull’s tendency to violence. In the end of the letter, he jokingly said the real threat should be the labradoodle, a dog trained to attack kangaroos, which would attack children jumping innocently on trampolines. Readers “weren’t up to speed” and took the joke seriously. A month and many complaints later, an important figure in labradoodle promotion groups had to write a series of letters trying to mitigate the damage done by the incident. I don’t mean to be pushy, but please try to read carefully before forming opinions, especially over the Internet.

Yet the “nature is fallen” comment came well before anyone took a (serious) position on deforestation.

No it did not. Read below.

post #190

Won’t it be great once the Amazon Rainforest is gone

Note: sarcasm without sarcasm tags.

post #197

I agree, and this is why.

Nature is original sin exemplified. The amount of violence, animals killing animals mercilessly and instinctively. Animals do not serve a higher purpose, only attempt to further their own survival. How often do animals pray, donate money charity, or make pilgrimages to Jerusalem. Never. Nature is in no way a fellowship of animals, like it is portrayed on Finding Nemo.

The Amazon Rainforest, like the Great Barrier Reef, are a testament to our disobedience to God. The sooner they are destroyed, the better humanity can turn its eyes from worldly matters instead toward heavenly concerns.

 

[cynic]

Well…maybe not…but calling me wacky for making arguments I did not make is not entirely honest either.

Why not just express yourself in a straightforward manner? It would be less confusing, and yes some of us are easily confused, if that’s going to be the retort.

Once there was a letter to the editor in my local paper that responded to the pit bull’s tendency to violence. In the end of the letter, he jokingly said the real threat should be the labradoodle, a dog trained to attack kangaroos, which would attack children jumping innocently on trampolines. Readers “weren’t up to speed” and took the joke seriously. A month and many complaints later, an important figure in labradoodle promotion groups had to write a series of letters trying to mitigate the damage done by the incident. I don’t mean to be pushy, but please try to read carefully before forming opinions, especially over the Internet.

So you wanted to get a rise out of people, for them to take your posts seriously enough to reply with an opposing argument and hopefully some information to back it up. But then you criticize them for not getting the sarcasm.

Also I think the example used here is more oviously a ‘joke’ than your comments were about getting rid of the entire Amazon. A couple of people really did agree with that.

Note: sarcasm without sarcasm tags.

Note: will be more careful in future.

 

[summasix]

Why not just express yourself in a straightforward manner? It would be less confusing, and yes some of us are easily confused, if that’s going to be the retort.

Because I am trying to accomplish multiple objectives within a single post.

So you wanted to get a rise out of people, for them to take your posts seriously enough to reply with an opposing argument and hopefully some information to back it up. But then you criticize them for not getting the sarcasm.

Also I think the example used here is more oviously a ‘joke’ than your comments were about getting rid of the entire Amazon. A couple of people really did agree with that.

Making inflammatory comments without responding removes accountability for your posts. Turnabout is fair play, especially since the OP made a monstrous allegation and continually evaded providing a solution to the problem. And no I am not criticizing people for not getting my sarcasm (I did include sarcasm tags in this case), just explaining my position so I was not misunderstood, as clarification was needed. Please don’t take offense, I really don’t mean any.

Also, I find ridiculous assertions helpful in pointing out weak points in arguments. When we take care to re-examine our own arguments, we find they rust over time and need some redirection.

I added a certain amount of hyperbole in my comments, as opposed to a very understandable point in my example about the letter.

Note: will be more careful in future.

As will I. I guess I never properly thanked you for the advice. Thank you.

 

[ribozyme]

Making inflammatory comments without responding removes accountability for your posts. Turnabout is fair play, especially since the OP made a monstrous allegation and continually evaded providing a solution to the problem. And no I am not criticizing people for not getting my sarcasm (I did include sarcasm tags in this case), just explaining my position so I was not misunderstood, as clarification was needed. Please don’t take offense, I really don’t mean any.

As will I. I guess I never properly thanked you for the advice. Thank you.

I support condom distribution as a way of mitigating the problem.

They took all the condom stuff off the websites, and so on, even though every scientist knows that we have too many people and that we should be reducing population size and that it’s good for people, and women in particular, and for the environment to have smaller families and to save lives and AIDS. And they took it away. They reinstituted the Mexico policy that Ronald Reagan, his great hero, put in that’s killed hundreds of thousands or maybe millions of women already. - Paul Ehrlich

democracynow.org/2007/9/6/fmr_secretary_of_state_george_shultz

 

[mapleoak]

And why aren’t those pushing population reduction volunteering to take early departure?

'cause it’s all about ME.

 

[mapleoak]

Nature is fallen. When Adam chose to disobey God, he doomed the world to original sin.

Nature isn’t fallen. Man is tainted by original sin through inheritance. Nature doesn’t inherit original sin.

One of the consequences of original sin is pain of childbirth.

One of the consequences of original sin is the need to manage farmland for food production.

Is childbirth painless for animals? No. So nature must be fallen.

Last I checked animals don’t give birth to children.

 

[mapleoak]

Unfortunately rainforest soil is very poor and much of the nutrients in it come from falling decaying leaves and stuff from the upper canopys. And because of the heavy rains much of the nutrients in the top soil are washed away quickly especially once the trees are gone.

How much experience do you have in the area of farming and building up good quality top soil? Do you believe that ‘black gold’ such as can be found in the Midwest happens by itself?

 

[vern_humphrey]

in or near tropical rainforest in Asia, the Carribbean and South America

That’s half the world!!

But your claim referred to the Amazonian rain forest. And the Andes are hardly rain forest. The plains of China are not rain forest. And the Caribbean islands, while forested are not large enough to qualify as rain forests because they cannot create their own climate.

 

[Calliso]

How much experience do you have in the area of farming and building up good quality top soil? Do you believe that ‘black gold’ such as can be found in the Midwest happens by itself?

No I donlt, and I should also add though that I know there are different types of soil and some soil does start out much better then others. I also think that rainforest soil could be used to farm on for much longer periods of time with better management. Such a crop rotation, and what not. I just think it maybe a matter of what is easier and quicker. Proper management of farmland or even a garden isn;t always “easy” or that quick though. And this is making me want a garden again ahha! but I am a wimp when it comes to heat and it is much hotter in Georgia then it is in Michigan…then there is the whole drought problem…

 

[mapleoak]

it is much hotter in Georgia then it is in Michigan…then there is the whole drought problem…

Would you believe some of the best Alfalfa hay is produced in the the Sonoran Desert of Arizona? In its natural state, the Sonoran Desert provides some pretty lousy topsoil as well as a pretty lousy environment for growing hay. Leave it to the ingenuity of man though and look what is possible.
Not only that, but one of the United States largest cities happens to thrive in a largely unhospitable environment.

 

[Caesar517]

I support condom distribution as a way of mitigating the problem.

Then the heart of this side issue is why you think people should be able to have sex with no consequences.

Do you believe in God, ribozyme?

 

[Calliso]

Would you believe some of the best Alfalfa hay is produced in the the Sonoran Desert of Arizona? In its natural state, the Sonoran Desert provides some pretty lousy topsoil as well as a pretty lousy environment for growing hay. Leave it to the ingenuity of man though and look what is possible.
Not only that, but one of the United States largest cities happens to thrive in a largely unhospitable environment.

Oh I didn;t say I couldn;t grow anything it;s just too hot for me to WANT to get out there… That and the complete restriction on outdoor watering would have been a problem too.

 

[ribozyme]

Paul Ehrlich interview:

bloggingheads.tv/diavlogs/12309

 

[vz71]

More doom and gloom…

Look, if you really believed any of this stuff, the promised suicide at the beginning of this thread would have come to fruition.

Quit proselytizing what you do not believe in.

 

[cynic]

How much experience do you have in the area of farming and building up good quality top soil? Do you believe that ‘black gold’ such as can be found in the Midwest happens by itself?

the environment is unique because of heavy rainfall and flooding.