The green issue that dare not speak its name

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ribozyme said:
So what is hypocritical about care about the environment and the sustainability of the human race?

And people who do advocate population control are willing to commit suicide.
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In the name of the enviroment…

Where would you stop? Should you kill off people that use more than their fair share of the earths resources. If your willing to commit suicide, why not take out the bigger offenders before hand? Why allow those to live that are past their usefullness or aren’t fully functioning?

This is silly talk of course, but hopefully makes a point.

At what point does “the enviroment” become another god to serve.
 
ribozyme said:
I am going to say this and I am not joking.

I WILL kill myself IF the calamities predicted by the global warming and peak oil doomers come to fruition. Rather die than compete in a zero sum game for resources for survival in the Hobbesian jungle. I do not want to live in a world with ubiquitous poverty with one can say with complete certitude that the means for escaping poverty do not exist because they were depleted by previous generations.

No, a suicide hotline will not help me since in that scenario – I doubt the phones and Internet would be working then.

So some population reduction advocates already have suicide pacts. Now stop talking about that puerile objection.
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Do you notice the “coercion process” that this kind of thinking engenders?
  1. I care so much about the environment created for humans that I would MAKE people kill other people, and would THREATEN to kill myself to INCENTIVIZE people to kill other “less deserving” people to save said environment.
  2. BUT, since I’m one of the self-assessed “important people” who BELIEVES in people killing other people to save “the gift to humanity”, I certainly shouldn’t be killed myself!
  3. Therefore, let’s kill off all those “undeserving” people, or more properly “have OTHER people kill those people”, so that I’m not, and my peeps aren’t, inconvenienced in my/our “lifestyle”.
So, you take the “valiant” step of threatening to kill yourself as a MOTIVATION for other people to kill those they, and you, deem “undeserving” of life. How very noble.

This “population control” proposed by this “intellectual elite” will be a moot point anyway, actually, because “developed” societies are in population decline and will be overun by the “less developed”, who have no inclination to use these goof-ball ideas of the soon-to-be-dead-anyway “intellectual elite”.

The “population bomb” idea is 35 years out of date, and a completely laughable idea on the face of it.

The ONE exception to the idea being “not laughable” is if some totalitarian regime gets enough power to impose death on vast portions of the both born and unborn world population, which they will indeed call “Population Control”.
 
Ungh…I don’t have the stomache for conversations such as these anymore…Which in itself, is a miracle, as I may have been with the suicidal chap a few years ago. Thanks be to God.

At the same time, I’m going to exchange one form of lunacy for another.

I think, that the fall of civilization and society into a barbaric state…would be wonderful.

Just like Adam and Eve and their decendents, having to carve out a life in the barren world! Having to make it fruitful!

Except, unlike our parents, we have the knowledge, and the faith, and the Bible!

Think about it. We who can obedient and never have seen God, how much more prepared are we for the wilderness than our ancestors who couldn’t obey a God that frequently spoke directly to them?

Then again, I’m also holding out for robotic slaves to do all our harvesting for us. Sure, the world will be one big farm, but then we humans can get about the important stuff, glorifying God.

So, I, just another madman, say, “Breath deeply while you can! Soon, they’ll be taxing you for it!”
 
vern_humphrey said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribozyme
And people who do advocate population control are willing to commit suicide.

So when are you checking out?
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DON’T do it Ribo!!

…though it WOULD enhance your credibility if you did.

But, NO, don’t do it Ribo!
 
I’d be satisfied if we could just get things into perspective. You have one part of the world with obese children, and another part of the world where children are starving.

There’s just something really wrong with that picture.

I’m still optimistic enough to believe that people can adjust their attitudes about consumerism and learn to make the difference between “I Want” and “I Need”.

If we do that, and use what we need to use instead of what we want to use, we won’t have to resort to such draconian methods as reducing the number of children people have.
 
Fitswimmer said:
I’d be satisfied if we could just get things into perspective. You have one part of the world with obese children, and another part of the world where children are starving.

There’s just something really wrong with that picture.

I’m still optimistic enough to believe that people can adjust their attitudes about consumerism and learn to make the difference between “I Want” and “I Need”.

If we do that, and use what we need to use instead of what we want to use, we won’t have to resort to such draconian methods as reducing the number of children people have.
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Those starving children mostly live in countries where their government **wants **them to starve.

There’s plenty of food, but it doesn’t get to those in greatest need.
 
vern_humphrey said:
Those starving children mostly live in countries where their government **wants **them to starve.

There’s plenty of food, but it doesn’t get to those in greatest need.
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So we just throw up our hands and let them starve? We don’t try to help?
 
Fitswimmer said:
So we just throw up our hands and let them starve? We don’t try to help?
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How do you propose to overthrow the tyrants and corrupt governments? How do you propose we deal with warlords?

And how much ammunition are you prepared to expend in the attempt?
 
ribozyme said:
I am going to say this and I am not joking.

I WILL kill myself IF the calamities predicted by the global warming and peak oil doomers come to fruition. Rather die than compete in a zero sum game for resources for survival in the Hobbesian jungle. I do not want to live in a world with ubiquitous poverty with one can say with complete certitude that the means for escaping poverty do not exist because they were depleted by previous generations.

No, a suicide hotline will not help me since in that scenario – I doubt the phones and Internet would be working then.

So some population reduction advocates already have suicide pacts. Now stop talking about that puerile objection.
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Proof positive that youth is wasted on the young.
 
Fitswimmer said:
So we just throw up our hands and let them starve? We don’t try to help?
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If it was in our national interest like strategic oil reserves seem to be we would help, but since starving children are not a global threat like terrorists we need our money to wiretap and detain suspects here while killing them over there.

The ‘green’ solution to population control was a movie with Chuch Heston in it- Soylent Green. Logans Run was another 70’s ‘green’ style population control movie.
 
Verisimilitude said:
If it was in our national interest like strategic oil reserves seem to be we would help, but since starving children are not a global threat like terrorists we need our money to wiretap and detain suspects here while killing them over there.
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You are perfectly free to travel to places like Myanmar or Darfur and overthrow the corrupt governments. Let me know when you are ready to go, and I will rent you an M1 rifle, and throw in a thousand rounds of .30 Caliber in en bloc clips.😛
 
vern_humphrey said:
You are perfectly free to travel to places like Myanmar or Darfur and overthrow the corrupt governments. Let me know when you are ready to go, and I will rent you an M1 rifle, and throw in a thousand rounds of .30 Caliber in en bloc clips.😛
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Rent? I seriously doubt you gonna be getting that rifle back…

But, ummm, as much fun as this idea sounds (and it really, sincerely does), I’m just not sure how…well, it involves violence.

And from what I’ve been told, violence solves nothing. Perhaps we just buy their countries?
 
ribozyme said:
I am coming out of the closest as I openly count myself as a advocate of population control.
from the neo-cons and evangelicals, who see it as an attack on liberty or a promotion of contraception/abortion
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Is your postion from compassion for those suffering today, or fear that resources will be unavailable to future generations? Liberals seem to want everyone to be equal in a socialist way…if we can get them out of the womb first.

Neocons have a strange view of liberty though too. They think it is reserved for themselves specifically and others only as long as they conform to their view of it and most are willing to use force in order to give them ‘liberty’ whether they want it or not. Evangelicals are like Islamists in view of liberty as it should be restricted only to those who believe as they do.
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vern_humphrey said:
You are perfectly free to travel to places like Myanmar or Darfur and overthrow the corrupt governments. Let me know when you are ready to go, and I will rent you an M1 rifle, and throw in a thousa
nd rounds of .30 Caliber in en bloc clips.😛
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I have a French army rifle for sale -never been fired, only dropped once.
 
Verisimilitude said:
If it was in our national interest like strategic oil reserves seem to be we would help, but since starving children are not a global threat like terrorists we need our money to wiretap and detain suspects here while killing them over there.
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The Unites States is the most generous country on the face of the earth. We have given massive aid to Burma and darfur-only to see it stolen by corrupt governments.
 
ribozyme said:
I am going to say this and I am not joking.

I WILL kill myself IF the calamities predicted by the global warming and peak oil doomers come to fruition.
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Proof positive that ribozyme doesn’t really believe peak oil or any of the other doom and gloom theories being spoken of.

The big 'IF ':cool:
 
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