The Gulf Coast and the Cane. Could it be divine retribution?

[tcay584]

Fox:

Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.

I can’t remember wher I read this in the Bible…but didn’t someone ask God…“If there’s 20…15…10…5…ok, 1 good person left, don’t destroy them?” And didn’t God say “Ok”?
I don’t see God’s fury in this. I see God weeping.
We can’t blame every natural disaster on God’s fury…it’s all part of the greatest plan on earth…we just can’t always see it.

 

[bones_IV]

We are the ones who should be weeping. Jesus said to the women of Jerusalem “Women do not weep for me, weep for yourselves and for your children.” I admit that God is not indifferent to what we suffer. Is God weeping? I believe that God is perfectly happy.

 

[bones_IV]

tcay584:

I can’t remember wher I read this in the Bible…but didn’t someone ask God…“If there’s 20…15…10…5…ok, 1 good person left, don’t destroy them?” And didn’t God say “Ok”?
I don’t see God’s fury in this. I see God weeping.
We can’t blame every natural disaster on God’s fury…it’s all part of the greatest plan on earth…we just can’t always see it.

Check out the book of Genesis where Abraham intercedes for Sodom and Gomohrra (spelling).

 

[Hildebrand]

davy39:

In Ohio, we have no hurricanes, but we do have tornadoes. Fox, to use your logic, is the family that is wiped out by a tornadoe, more sinfull than another family that is spared any damage a few blocks away? I really doubt it, but if I get to heaven, maybe I’ll ask the Almighty, if he’ll allow me to.

This may help you understand this:

ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/coming.htm

ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/backgr.htm

We are all sinners. No one is Good, but God. We all need his mercy. There are definitely worse sinners than others, but by no means does anyone deserve mercy. It is the most sublime and unfathomable gift from God.

 

[WanderAimlessly]

Fox:

Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.

Sorry, but God does not work in those ways.

PF

 

[HelpingHands]

Fox:

Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.

No, I believe it is a natural disaster due to weather conditions that cause hurricaines.

 

[Adonis33]

Fox:

Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.

I think this question is in poor taste.

No - this is not God’s wrath - it is a natural disaster.

Only Bourbon Street is known for its sinfullness. The rest of the French Quarter, is full of beauty and history.

 

[Lucania]

Fox:

Does anyone here believe that this natural occurrence that hit the coast and New Orleans divinely initiated? Could this be collective payment for the sins of the region? As we know we have seen God exact retribution before on people.

No. A hurricane is a natural occurrence. If you believe it is collective payment for sins of the region then I suppose you think the same for Tornadoes in the Heartland(or elsewhere), Earthquakes on the West Coast, Blizzards (pick a state that has snow). Golfball-size Hail storms, Droughts, Tidal Waves, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, Avalanches, Mudslides, Floods? All of these can cause Human Suffering, Destruction, Death. Are these payments for sins as well?

 

[Hildebrand]

Thekla:

I always believed that it wasn’t the number that was important or the fact that S & G was eventually leveled, but the idea that one innocent life had such value that the evil of the others could never outweigh that life. I always saw this as a story of the value of the good and innocent rather than a story of punishment for evil.

I guess it’s a matter of how you approach it; like I said, I never saw that as a story of punishment. The ultimate demise of S&G is only a line or two whereas God’s conversation (and an interesting change of mind) lasts for many, many lines.

Besides that, God actually evolves in the Bible, from a vengeful God who destroyed S&G and planned to destroy Ninevah, to a God who shows compassion. God gets it; that people deserve a chance to repent their sins rather than just pay for them through suffering* and death. *

That’s what the Ten Commandments are about and that’s what Jesus’ death is about. Redemption.

God brought down the number because of Abraham was able to plea for God’s stay of hand under certain conditions. Devout people who pray to God for His mercy can divert His Justice upon the earth.

Proof of God not evolving in the Bible: look at the Book of Revelation and you will find both the God of Justice and the God of Mercy.

God showed us compassion by sending His Son to die a horrible death so that our sins may be forgiven. God never evolved. It was because of the death and resurrection of Jesus why the change happened and the relationship between God and man was restored. This does not change that God is a God of Justice and that Justice may appear to be in the form of Wrath, but it is always a Just Wrath.

The following is a private revelation, it is not necessary for an individual Catholic to accept private revelations that are approved of by the Church. However, we have “Divine Mercy Sunday” because of these private revelations. Pope John Paul II was one of the greatest advocates of this devotional.

Of another vision on Sept. 13, 1935, she (St. Faustina) writes:

“I saw an Angel, the executor of God’s wrath… about to strike
the earth…I began to beg God earnestly for the world with words
which I heard interiorly. As I prayed in this way, I saw the
Angel’s helplessness, and he could not carry out the just
punishment…”

The following day an inner voice taught her to say this prayer on
ordinary rosary beads:

"First say one ‘Our Father’, ‘Hail Mary’, and ‘I believe’. Then on
the large beads say the following words:

‘Eternal Father, I offer You the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity
of Your dearly beloved Son, Our Lord Jesus Christ, in atonement
for our sins and those of the whole world.’

On the smaller beads you are to say the following words:

‘For the sake of His sorrowful Passion have mercy on us and on the whole world.’

In conclusion you are to say these words three times:

‘Holy God, Holy Mighty One, Holy Immortal One, have mercy on us and on the whole world’.

Jesus said later to Sister Faustina:

“Say unceasingly this chaplet that I have taught you. Anyone who
says it will receive great Mercy at the hour of death. Priests
will recommend it to sinners as the last hope. Even the most
hardened sinner, if he recites this Chaplet even once, will
receive grace from My Infinite Mercy. I want the whole world to
know My Infinite Mercy. I want to give unimaginable graces to
those who trust in My Mercy…”

“…When they say this Chaplet in the presence of the dying, I
will stand between My Father and the dying person not as the just judge but as the Merciful Savior”.

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

What I don’t like are many “Christians” who desire God’s Justice for sinners, when they must (if they are to call themselves Christians) beg for forgiveness and mercy. It is Satan who tries to bring man to sin (although we do just fine without him) and it is Satan who does not want people to turn to God for mercy. He wants them to remain separated from God.

Christians must expose sin for what it is, love and pray for the sinner, that they may convert and find salvation in God. Too often “Christians” seem to take delight in the Justice of God. IMHO, this sin is far worse than the sin of Lot’s wife. She just looked. They want to look and enjoy watching sinners suffer. I’ll imitate the women of Jerusalem during Good Friday.

 

[Friar_David_O.Carm]

Hildebrand:

The following is a private revelation, it is not necessary for an individual Catholic to accept private revelations that are approved of by the Church. However, we have “Divine Mercy Sunday” because of these private revelations. Pope John Paul II was one of the greatest advocates of this devotional.

Yes, private revelation is not necessary.

But nice try working in “Divine Mercy Sunday” to make it necessary but… “Divine Mercy Sunday” is optional. Many places still just call it the 2nd Sunday of Easter.

And please do not forget that “Divine Mercy Sunday” is something for the Latin Church only.

 

[Lisa4Catholics]

Is it that people want it to be Divine Chastisement or is it that we know that Divine chastisment would be warranted for most of us? Do we really know what injuries all of our sins do? Like the Earthquake at the Crucifixion. God is Merciful and He will bring good out of this, we need to be ready when it is our turn to go and help the people who are going through this as well as pray for the souls of the dead.God said He chastises the ones He loves, so if it is a chastisement then would that create a mean God image? If it is not a chastisement will some be angry at god and ask Him why?Or are we going to realise that God could have stopped this, He didn’t, why? Because He will bring a greater good out of it. What is the good this disaster has brought to you? I will treasure the life of my family, my friends and all of you and that I was given life. I will pray and try to help those poor people that have died and lost everything that they have. They have no home, nowhere to go and maybe no job to care for their family.Several people came to Memphis from New Orleans and last night while staying at a motel their cars were robbed and some just stolen We need to help them:crying:

 

[Bootoo]

I could say nothing better than what Luciana says:

No. A hurricane is a natural occurrence. If you believe it is collective payment for sins of the region then I suppose you think the same for Tornadoes in the Heartland(or elsewhere), Earthquakes on the West Coast, Blizzards (pick a state that has snow). Golfball-size Hail storms, Droughts, Tidal Waves, Tsunamis, Volcanic Eruptions, Avalanches, Mudslides, Floods? All of these can cause Human Suffering, Destruction, Death. Are these payments for sins as well?

---

I believe in getting into hot water, it keeps you clean
G.K. Chesterson

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LucaniaView Public ProfileSend a private message to LucaniaFind all posts by LucaniaAdd Lucania to Your Buddy List
I grew up in tornado county, in Wisconsin, and did my share of going (hiding in?) the basement when the sirens went off. I now live in LA, and have seen one earthquake the likes of one I don’t want to see again.

But I would say that I will see what I will see, and God’s will be done. I am hoping I have seen my share of tornadoes. And I know I will see my share of earthquakes still coming, and I am hoping they don’t get a lot worse than the Northridge quake.

My uncle lives between New Orleans and Biloxi, and nearer to Biloxi. He is a Lutheran, I think, and I don’t know how devout. His whereabouts are unknown, right now. He is a decent sort, who believes in God and family and our country. If he died, it is not for his sins. I am sure I have sinned ten times over as much as he did.

I was in New Orleans once upon a time as a child, and all went wrong, and it seemed an awful place to me. Last September, I met my mom and dad there for one of my dad’s WWII bomb group reunions. On the day we got there, there was speculation of a hurricane coming in, and an evacuation. One did, in fact, come in, a few days before we left,and there were evacuations. In the meantime, we saw such beauty in that city that it took my breath away. And on a very hot day, we took a “swamp tour”, and I held a baby foot-long alligator, and saw its beautiful eyes as well. And it had lovely golden alligator eyes, and I said “hi” to that small gator that was called Bubba. And as I wonder about my uncle, and all the people who live in that part of the country, who maybe lost their homes if not their lives, I wonder about God’s creatures like a small alligator called Bubba, and hope he does well. God would certainly not punish a small alligator named Bubba. And if you know that, then you know that Katrina was not some sort of retribution or punishment. You and I might be sinners, but Bubba is not,and God gets that.

 

[seeker63]

Well, for what it’s worth, I had several large mortal sins under my belt early in 1994 and then my apartment complex was hit with a 5-alarm fire. Now the two things I value most in this world are my dog and my library. I got out in my bathrobe with my dog and watched in agony and shock as the fire spread through the building.

There were something like 25 fire trucks and 64 firemen in attendance. The fire was stopped two units from mine. I didn’t even suffer smoke or water damage.

I was having health problems at the time and they only got worse, compounded for awhile by a brief case of post-traumatic stress disorder.

People told me God had His hand on me, that He had warned me, or given me a wake-up call or something.

I still don’t know what He’s got in mind for me, but I will say that not long after moving into my new apartment I started going to various churches after a 10 or 15 year absence from all church-going. I eventually decided to join the Catholic Church and signed up for RCIA, getting confirmed that December.

I don’t know if that would’ve happened without that disaster. I think God was trying to tell me something through it.

But of course now I live in fear and paranoia of more disasters befalling me. I’m still terrified of losing my dog or library.

 

[Fox]

Ok, so we can say in almost certainty, it wasn’t retribution but we can’t totally discount it as being such for we do not know God’s will fully.

If it wasn’t retribution what happened to the coast, what purpose or meaning can we take from this situation.

 

[felra]

seeker63:

Well, for what it’s worth, I had several large mortal sins under my belt early in 1994 and then my apartment complex was hit with a 5-alarm fire. Now the two things I value most in this world are my dog and my library. I got out in my bathrobe with my dog and watched in agony and shock as the fire spread through the building.

There were something like 25 fire trucks and 64 firemen in attendance. The fire was stopped two units from mine. I didn’t even suffer smoke or water damage.

I was having health problems at the time and they only got worse, compounded for awhile by a brief case of post-traumatic stress disorder.

People told me God had His hand on me, that He had warned me, or given me a wake-up call or something.

I still don’t know what He’s got in mind for me, but I will say that not long after moving into my new apartment I started going to various churches after a 10 or 15 year absence from all church-going. I eventually decided to join the Catholic Church and signed up for RCIA, getting confirmed that December.

I don’t know if that would’ve happened without that disaster. I think God was trying to tell me something through it.

But of course now I live in fear and paranoia of more disasters befalling me. I’m still terrified of losing my dog or library.

Yes, because you responded to God’s grace through this natural disaster which He allowed for His greater purpose of bringing you closer to Him.

This morning on the Today show (I usually don’t watch, but the hurricane disaster had me watching), the host Matt L. began his interview with the Governor of Louisianna by stating that the Governor declared today a day of prayer. Obviously God allowed and is using this natural disaster (He is Lord of all and not a distant, aloof God) for His greater loving purpose. What else besides a regional clamity would cause the civil government and the masses of people to consiously turn to God in surrender and petition?

Sometimes we need the stick to bring us straying humans (believers, non-believers) to our knees in the raw reality of our utter need for God. A time for Chrisitians in and outside the region to bring Gospel witness through their faith response and example to those who are farther from God. My :twocents: .

 

[johnshelby]

i believe it rains on the just and the unjust…

the begger in “Abraham’s” bosom, had been plagued his
whole life… the rich man in hell, had been blessed his whole
life…

plus remember when asking about this being a ‘message
from God’…
New Orleans is probably one of the most “Catholic”
cities in this country…
St. Thomas’ Catholic Church in Biloxi had survived Camile and
every thing else, till this. it was a beautiful church that had
blessed so many. people from the area, people there
at Kesler Air Force Base… the people of the church will
still be there, but the building itself held so much history,
and was the site of so many acts of faith and love…

sign from God? Jesus was the “perfect revelation”
of God… when we get the next sign from God, i don’t think
there will be any question as to it’s origin…

New Orleans has been spared a dozen times by hurricanes
that suddenly veered to one side or the other… this one didn’t…
i live in Orange Beach, AL… we had Ivan last year… we had
Fredrick in 1979, and a dozen lesser ones between… so, if
they are signs from God, punishing the unjust, then i guess Orange Beach is waaaayyyy worse than New Orleans… lol

 

[johnshelby]

i believe it rains on the just and the unjust…

the begger in “Abraham’s” bosom, had been plagued his
whole life… the rich man in hell, had been blessed his whole
life…

plus remember when asking about this being a ‘message
from God’…
New Orleans is probably one of the most “Catholic”
cities in this country…
St. Thomas’ Catholic Church in Biloxi had survived Camile and
every thing else, till this. it was a beautiful church that had
blessed so many. people from the area, people there
at Kesler Air Force Base… the people of the church will
still be there, but the building itself held so much history,
and was the site of so many acts of faith and love…

sign from God? Jesus was the “perfect revelation”
of God… when we get the next sign from God, i don’t think
there will be any question as to it’s origin…

New Orleans has been spared a dozen times by hurricanes
that suddenly veered to one side or the other… this one didn’t…
i live in Orange Beach, AL… we had Ivan last year… we had
Fredrick in 1979, and a dozen lesser ones between… so, if
they are signs from God, punishing the unjust, then i guess Orange Beach is waaaayyyy worse than New Orleans… lol

 

[Orogeny]

Fox:

Oro,
The FQ, in my opinion, is a catalyst of all what is wrong with this world, along with the Vegas strip, not the cities as a whole.

That’s a joke, right? Do you really believe that?

I’m sorry, but I am stunned by your opinion. The French Quarter and the Vegas Strip are the catalyst for abortion? Terrorism? Genocide? Famine?

Peace

Tim

 

[cmgeo]

I am mostly a passive reader.
But I feel strongly inclined to write a few lines on this topic.
ie; Misfortunes in peoples lives
I very strongly DISAGREE with passing a judgement
either way on events such as these.
Botttom line is; I think we should not play God
How ever Holy one might consider himself to be.
That only shows the hollowness of his/her holiness
I think the new testment has repeatedly touched on the
subject of tragedies happening to people
That is not to say that God does not have a purpose
God definitely has a plan on the slightest events in ones
life. But Let GOD alone be the judge
Let us all say “We are worthless and Sinful
Lord Have Mercy”

 

[Hildebrand]

ByzCath:

Yes, private revelation is not necessary.

But nice try working in “Divine Mercy Sunday” to make it necessary but… “Divine Mercy Sunday” is optional. Many places still just call it the 2nd Sunday of Easter.

And please do not forget that “Divine Mercy Sunday” is something for the Latin Church only.

Nice try?

I thought everything I said was factually correct:

Fact: It is not necessary for an individual Catholic to accept private revelations that are approved of by the Church.

Fact: We (clause: latins) have “Divine Mercy Sunday” because of these private revelations.

Fact: Pope John Paul II was one of the greatest advocates of this devotional.

Yes optional, it still can be apart of the liturgy because of the work of Pope John Paul II.

The rosary was a private revelation to St. Dominic. Catholics are not bound to accept the rosary, there is no doctrine of the rosary. It is a devotional. Same with the Miraculous Medal. Does the Maronite Church have the Miraculous Medal or pray the rosary? I don’t know, but we Latin do have both, we are not bound to accept them to be Catholics, as I said in the beginning.

I was not trying to make it necessary, but help people’s understanding of God’s Justice and God’s Mercy. This is one of the greatest misconceptions of God, and I thought these quotes might provide some assistance. Sorry, next time, I’ll keep my mouth shut.