The Gulf Coast and the Cane. Could it be divine retribution?

[CarolAnnSFO]

I still think this is just a weather phenomenon, albeit a terrible one, and yes, God allowed it to happen, as He allows everything that happens on Earth. However, I find it strange that the same God who gave us free will, and does not control the day-to-day details of our lives (like puppets on a string) would suddenly change His “policy” when it comes to weather.

For those who have had their faith strengthened by this kind of adversity, praise God for that. And when you pray, please remember to pray for those victims of Katrina who are now sinking into despair, to the point that they don’t want to live anymore (dig a little deeper into the news; you’ll find them). And please also pray for those who don’t believe, or whose faith is weak, who are cursing God at this moment because they think He willed this destruction on them.

Crazy Internet Junkies Society
Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[sherilo]

cmgeo:

I am mostly a passive reader.
But I feel strongly inclined to write a few lines on this topic.
ie; Misfortunes in peoples lives
I very strongly DISAGREE with passing a judgement
either way on events such as these.
Botttom line is; I think we should not play God
How ever Holy one might consider himself to be.
That only shows the hollowness of his/her holiness
I think the new testment has repeatedly touched on the
subject of tragedies happening to people
That is not to say that God does not have a purpose
God definitely has a plan on the slightest events in ones
life. But Let GOD alone be the judge
Let us all say “We are worthless and Sinful
Lord Have Mercy”

I wholeheartedly agree with you! Why do we even feel the need to even speculate on such?

Sheri

 

[felra]

CarolAnnSFO:

I still think this is just a weather phenomenon, albeit a terrible one, and yes, God allowed it to happen, as He allows everything that happens on Earth. However, I find it strange that the same God who gave us free will, and does not control the day-to-day details of our lives (like puppets on a string) would suddenly change His “policy” when it comes to weather.

For those who have had their faith strengthened by this kind of adversity, praise God for that. And when you pray, please remember to pray for those victims of Katrina who are now sinking into despair, to the point that they don’t want to live anymore (dig a little deeper into the news; you’ll find them). And please also pray for those who don’t believe, or whose faith is weak, who are cursing God at this moment because they think He willed this destruction on them.

I agree, God does work through deliberate and natural tragedy for His call to conversion and deeper faith and trust in Him. And our part as removed from the tragedy is to pray and offer charitable assistance as each is able.

**Luke, Chapter 13:1-5 “1**At that time some people who were present there told him about the Galileans whose blood Pilate had mingled with the blood of their sacrifices.He said to them in reply, “Do you think that because these Galileans suffered in this way they were greater sinners than all other Galileans? By no means! But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did! Or those eighteen people who were killed when the tower at Siloam fell on them–do you think they were more guilty than everyone else who lived in Jerusalem? By no means! But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did!”

Footnotes: 1 [1-5] The death of the Galileans at the hands of Pilate (Luke 13:1) and the accidental death of those on whom the tower fell (Luke 13:4) are presented by the Lucan Jesus as timely reminders of the need for all to repent, for the victims of these tragedies should not be considered outstanding sinners who were singled out for punishment.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

felra:

I agree, God does work through deliberate and natural tragedy for His call to conversion and deeper faith and trust in Him.

You may have misread my post, because I don’t agree with this at all – mainly, because it’s way too hit-and-miss for me to believe it’s from God. For every person who comes to a conversion and deeper faith, there will be at least one more who gets pulled farther away from God than ever. What’s the point of “using” a natural disaster if it will result in just as many (if not more) lost, than saved? And the “punishing all for the wrongdoings of a few” just doesn’t work. If anything, it backfires. And note that in the Lucan verses, Jesus didn’t say “If you repent, you will perish anyway, because the person next to you didn’t repent.”

felra:

And our part as removed from the tragedy is to pray and offer charitable assistance as each is able.

On that, we agree.

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[TOME]

If this storm was totally unexpected then maybe, just maybe, someone could provide somewhat believable argument that we just experienced the wrath of God. But that’s if it was unexpected and it wasn’t.

I work for a dredging company and because of the nature of our work, on water often in the ocean, we have to keep a close eye on the weather. Last April, I attended a conference on the up coming Hurrican season. During this conference meterologist from NOAA explain to us hurricans seem to go in cycles (around every 40 years) part of this cycle is driven by the salt content of the ocean. To make a long story short, our weathermen already knew this and have been telling us for some time now that we have entered into a cycle of serve weather. So again this wasn’t unexpected and I doubt very much is an act of the wrath of God.

 

[wcknight]

Yes, I think God had a hand in this AND Yes I think God is trying tell all of us something by these natural disasters.

God is trying to tell us to help our neighbors. He is giving us an opportunity to show our love for our fellow human beings. Pray for those who are left homeless and who are suffering through this natural calamity. Offer you help in any way you can to help those in times of trouble.

It is the same messages that Jesus taught us, shelter the homeless, feed the hungry and be charitable to the less fortunate, because whatever you do for them, you do for Jesus.

The poor, the homeless, etc were put here for a purpose, and that purpose is that we should recognize their needs and lend assistance to them.
wc

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

wcknight:

God is trying to tell us to help our neighbors. He is giving us an opportunity to show our love for our fellow human beings. Pray for those who are left homeless and who are suffering through this natural calamity. Offer you help in any way you can to help those in times of trouble.

It is the same messages that Jesus taught us, shelter the homeless, feed the hungry and be charitable to the less fortunate, because whatever you do for them, you do for Jesus.

I can agree with that! There is a great need now for the corporal and spiritual works of mercy.

TOME:

To make a long story short, our weathermen already knew this and have been telling us for some time now that we have entered into a cycle of serve weather. So again this wasn’t unexpected and I doubt very much is an act of the wrath of God.

I agree. Anyone who thinks that very severe weather is only a recent phenomenon should read up about the winter of 1880-1881 (yes, over 100 years ago), when people starved to death because there was always at least 20 feet of snow on the railroad tracks, and supply trains couldn’t get through.

Weather goes in cycles. And because of the level of communications we have today, we’re more aware of it.

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[felra]

You may have misread my post, because I don’t agree with this at all – mainly, because it’s way too hit-and-miss for me to believe it’s from God.

God did not per see deliver the storm tragegy to these people, but He did allow this tragedy to occur in His permisive will; knowing full well in advance the extent of innocent loss and suffering. He could have stopped this tragedy from occuring if He chose.

For every person who comes to a conversion and deeper faith, there will be at least one more who gets pulled farther away from God than ever. What’s the point of “using” a natural disaster if it will result in just as many (if not more) lost, than saved?

You may be shortsighted and premature in your analysis her.

And the “punishing all for the wrongdoings of a few” just doesn’t work. If anything, it backfires. And note that in the Lucan verses, Jesus didn’t say “If you repent, you will perish anyway, because the person next to you didn’t repent.”

In my read (I do not pretend to be a scripture scholar) Jesus meant this as a “preaching/teaching moment” by way of warning and example to others what will happen to them if they “But I tell you, if you do not repent, you will all perish as they did”, *they *being “the victims of these tragedies should not be considered outstanding sinners who were singled out for punishment.”

 

[Lucania]

Suffering, whether it comes in the form of a natural disaster , illness , personal loss, whatever, is a way to bring us closer to God, to unite with his suffering on the Cross. That is the good that comes out of tragedies, although some will curse God and turn away. When we are not personally involved in disasters like Hurricane Katrina, we can show our Christian Love by donating money, volunteering our talents where needed and of course, Prayer.

 

[Thekla]

Hildebrand:

God brought down the number because of Abraham was able to plea for God’s stay of hand under certain conditions. Devout people who pray to God for His mercy can divert His Justice upon the earth.

Proof of God not evolving in the Bible: look at the Book of Revelation and you will find both the God of Justice and the God of Mercy.

God showed us compassion by sending His Son to die a horrible death so that our sins may be forgiven. God never evolved. It was because of the death and resurrection of Jesus why the change happened and the relationship between God and man was restored. This does not change that God is a God of Justice and that Justice may appear to be in the form of Wrath, but it is always a Just Wrath.

The following is a private revelation, it is not necessary for an individual Catholic to accept private revelations that are approved of by the Church. However, we have “Divine Mercy Sunday” because of these private revelations. Pope John Paul II was one of the greatest advocates of this devotional.

http://www.ewtn.com/Devotionals/mercy/dmmap.htm

What I don’t like are many “Christians” who desire God’s Justice for sinners, when they must (if they are to call themselves Christians) beg for forgiveness and mercy. It is Satan who tries to bring man to sin (although we do just fine without him) and it is Satan who does not want people to turn to God for mercy. He wants them to remain separated from God.

Christians must expose sin for what it is, love and pray for the sinner, that they may convert and find salvation in God. Too often “Christians” seem to take delight in the Justice of God. IMHO, this sin is far worse than the sin of Lot’s wife. She just looked. They want to look and enjoy watching sinners suffer. I’ll imitate the women of Jerusalem during Good Friday.

About Revelations…My Catholic Bible tells me that Revelations is an excellent example of apocalyptic literature. Apocalyptic literature was quite popular at the time it was written and Revelations is believed to have been intended to provide some sort of hope to Christians, who were at the time suffering terrible persecution. Much of Revelations can be considered referencing the then persecution by the Romans.

As for God evolving, I think there is a definite change in the OT God and the NT God. I can’t think of where it is, but I think I recall a passage in which God regrets His previous show of wrath. And Abraham was making a clear and convincing argument, not a prayer, for the value of the good and the innocent. Read it again. He is not asking or pleading with the Lord, but making an argument through the posing of questions. He starts with 50 innocent lives and then (craftily) works his way down. He never asked the Lord to stay His hand.

I totally agree that there are some who seem to delight in the thought of others being punished; it’s very disturbing.

 

[CarolAnnSFO]

felra:

You may be shortsighted and premature in your analysis her.

Not really, and it isn’t an analysis – I’m just relaying what I’ve observed for myself. I’ve been around for a while ( ), and like I’ve said, my acquaintance is not limited to other Christians, or solely to those who belong to a monotheistic faith tradition.

Thekla:

I totally agree that there are some who seem to delight in the thought of others being punished; it’s very disturbing.

Frankly, it makes me ill. I can just see them rubbing their hands in glee, cackling about how all these evil, decadent, materialistic Amercians will get what’s coming to them. As if they know everybody in the country, and what’s in everyone’s hearts. As if it’s for them to decide.

Yes, God allows these natural weather phenomena to happen – He designed the Earth, and hurricanes are part of it, along with blizzards, tornadoes, and earthquakes. If people are moved to be kinder and more charitable because of it, and if it causes some people to find their faith, then fine. But I’m supposed to believe that God deliberately sent Katrina along to punish the Gulf Coast? Sorry, but I’m just not going to swallow that.

**Crazy Internet Junkies Society
**Carrier of the Angelic Sparkles Sprinkle Bag

 

[Brad]

Hildebrand:

Gay and Lesbian Decadence Feast was suppose to happen over Labor Day weekend. I think it is cancelled, of course. I don’t believe this was responsible because there are things like this going on all the time. Why there? Why now?

I love NO. The food, the music, the buildings. But…

NO is very representative of all that is wrong with our social culture today and it is known for such on an international scale.

It celebrates moral depravity.

 

[Fox]

Orogeny:

That’s a joke, right? Do you really believe that?

I’m sorry, but I am stunned by your opinion. The French Quarter and the Vegas Strip are the catalyst for abortion? Terrorism? Genocide? Famine?

Peace

Tim

Ok maybe not all the evils but pretty close to it, like porn, debauchery, prostitution, false religions, gambling etc. These two places remind me of Port Royal that got wiped out by a Earthquake back in 1692. Port Royal was maybe a little bit worse perhaps if you consider murders all the time.

Like the abover poster to me had typed, these places celebrate depravity.

 

[Orogeny]

Fox:

Ok maybe not all the evils but pretty close to it, like porn, debauchery, prostitution, false religions, gambling etc. These two places remind me of Port Royal that got wiped out by a Earthquake back in 1692. Port Royal was maybe a little bit worse perhaps if you consider murders all the time.

Like the abover poster to me had typed, these places celebrate depravity.

Well, you also realize that porn, debauchery, prostitution, false religions, gambling, etc. existed LONG before New Orleans or Las Vegas?

Now that New Orleans may be gone, if Las Vegas is destroyed by an earthquake, will the world be freed from those problems?

Peace

Tim

 

[DaMaMaXiMuS]

Greetings and peace unto you all,

I think the wisest position to take in this matter is to simply admit that no one knows, only God knows why what happens, happens.

I admit, I was curious myself to the question posed. I even posted a tread about this a day or so ago. But then I began to ponder more.

Do we read examples in the scriptures about God plaguing people? Yes, know doubt about it. God has raised up armies to take down nations, used nature both weather and animals, to punish man. We even know that Christ will return to judge both the quick and the dead.

But!..We have to also realize this. In all the examples we pull out of the bible to support an opinions or arguments, what we forget so easily is that we can also read as to WHY those things happened. We can’t say the same for whatever it is that happens on the world scene today.

We won’t know until we’re standing before to he LORD and ask him, which I highly doubt will be happening for those who make to heaven.

So to speculate or form opinions about this subject is not profitable by evidence of how some have reacted on this thread. It’s produced ill feelings, which is something WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN we should not be doing.

Some earlier quoted Luke, which is the exact scripture that came to mind on the subject.

Luke 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I think its wiser to preoccupy ourselves with how we can have God’s grace rest upon us and our loved ones and the rest of the living, and not ponder so much on why the dead died they way they did.

God Bless You All,

Nelson

 

[bones_IV]

Fox, one thing you have to understand is that you cannot read the mind of God. Their personal sins are only known to God.

 

[Fox]

Bones,
Never said I did read God’s mind.

Oro,
Yes I understand that those types of sins existed long before NO and LV, hence my Port Royal statement. Perhaps this might change people’s hearts for the better, we will find out in the end game perhaps.

DaMAMA,
Well said brother.

 

[777]

Hildebrand:

I would not want to speculate on any specific disaster because, first of all, it may be taken as these people deserving it. Also, I am not God, nor pretend to be God. Only God knows.

In general, all suffering is because of original sin. God did not intend us to live like this. And sin does cry out for the justice of God in this life and/or the next.

Gay and Lesbian Decadence Feast was suppose to happen over Labor Day weekend. I think it is cancelled, of course. I don’t believe this was responsible because there are things like this going on all the time. Why there? Why now?

The good and bad suffer because of the individual sins of men and women, the collective sins of men and women and because of original sin. We are all together on the same boat, so to say. Thousands of people died in the San Francisco earthquake of 1905, thousands died when the Mississippi flooded in the 1920s, thousands, thousands, thousands. The way the state of the world is: weather, geology, etc - bad things are bound to happen. What God has to do with each incident? Snowstorms, flooding, tornadoes, hurricanes, etc?

Jesus said we are to carry our crosses and suffer with him. How we respond to our own crosses not only effects our lives but the lives of those around us. Do we respond with love or hate?

We must try to elevate suffering as much as we can in this age and when Christ returns our great hope and promise is there will be no more suffering.

Don’t forget the sins of women as well. And I believe it IS devine retribution.

 

[777]

Hildebrand:

I agree to a degree.

On original sin. God intended us to live in paradise and not suffer, yes or no? Original sin destroyed it. When God first chose to create man and woman in His own image, He did not decide to put man and woman in a world of suffering and natural disasters. Something changed this situation - namely, original sin.

Our own sins have logical ramifications (murder results in suffering).

Beyond the logical ramifications, sin does bring about God’s justice. Deciding what is the justice of God and what is not, in my opinion, would be imprudent. It is not my place. I am only a creature of God. Being a sinner too, who am I to judge on God’s justice? I pray for His mercy.

Such is what makes backsliding risky. You know not the day nor the hour.

 

[777]

DaMaMaXiMuS:

Greetings and peace unto you all,

I think the wisest position to take in this matter is to simply admit that no one knows, only God knows why what happens, happens.

I admit, I was curious myself to the question posed. I even posted a tread about this a day or so ago. But then I began to ponder more.

Do we read examples in the scriptures about God plaguing people? Yes, know doubt about it. God has raised up armies to take down nations, used nature both weather and animals, to punish man and woman. We even know that Christ will return to judge both the quick and the dead.

But!..We have to also realize this. In all the examples we pull out of the bible to support an opinions or arguments, what we forget so easily is that we can also read as to WHY those things happened. We can’t say the same for whatever it is that happens on the world scene today.

We won’t know until we’re standing before to he LORD and ask him, which I highly doubt will be happening for those who make to heaven.

So to speculate or form opinions about this subject is not profitable by evidence of how some have reacted on this thread. It’s produced ill feelings, which is something WE KNOW FOR CERTAIN we should not be doing. AT ALL.

Some earlier quoted Luke, which is the exact scripture that came to mind on the subject.

Luke 13:1 ¶ There were present at that season some that told him of the Galilaeans, whose blood Pilate had mingled with their sacrifices.

2 And Jesus answering said unto them, Suppose ye that these Galilaeans were sinners above all the Galilaeans, because they suffered such things?

3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

4 Or those eighteen, upon whom the tower in Siloam fell, and slew them, think ye that they were sinners above all men that dwelt in Jerusalem?
5 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.

I think its wiser to preoccupy ourselves with how we can have God’s grace rest upon us and our loved ones and the rest of the living, and not ponder so much on why the dead died they way they did.

God Bless You All,

Nelson

How can we be sure?