The "Hail, Holy Queen" prayer. Need thoughts please

[RyanML]

Also, see Pope Benedict XVI’s “Spe Salvi”:

The true stars of our life are the people who have lived good lives. They are lights of hope. Certainly, Jesus Christ is the true light, the sun that has risen above all the shadows of history. But to reach him we also need lights close by—people who shine with his light and so guide us along our way. Who more than Mary could be a star of hope for us? With her “yes” she opened the door of our world to God himself; she became the living Ark of the Covenant, in whom God took flesh, became one of us, and pitched his tent among us (cf. Jn 1:14).

I couldn’t have stated it any better!

 

[fix]

I have never cared for St. Alphonsus de Liguori’s mariology.

I love it. As well as de Montfort and Kolbe.

It gets too close to crossing the line, in my opinion.

No way. His theology is consistent with the faith.

If I am a good example for someone who is away from the Lord and I pray for them and through my good example and prayers, the Holy Spirit draws them to Himself, then I have certainly been an instrument in leading that person to salvation, but I could not say that I was that person’s hope and salvation. Here is where I think the term Co-Redemptrix actually becomes helpful. It literally means the woman with the Redeemer. Mary cooperated in a singular way in our salvation, but of course, it does not come from her or through her in the most direct sense, obviously. She continues to helps on our journey by her example and prayers. She is Mother of mercy and life and sweetness and hope, but she is not the author and giver of these things.

No one says she is the ultimate source of these things.

Leo XIII, in the text referred to, spoke of her, as we saw above, as having “practically limitless power.” St. Pius X said she was the "dispensatrix of all the gifts, and is the “neck” connecting the Head of the Mystical Body to the Members. But all power flows through the neck. Pius XII said “Her kingdom is as vast as that of her Son and God, since nothing is excluded from her dominion.” These and many other texts speak in varied ways of Mary as Mediatrix of all graces, so often that the teaching has become infallible…

 

[Fran65]

I have benefitted agreat deal from this discussion. I found out, for example, that I was missing an important phrase from the prayer and that was why I was uncomfortable with the same phrase that the OP refers to.

Hail, Holy Queen, Mother of mercy, our life, our sweetness and our hope.

It makes sense now!

Thank You

 

[RyanML]

I love it. As well as de Montfort and Kolbe.

True Devotion is one of my favorites

 

[Chatter163]

Perhaps i’m splitting hairs in my treatment of St. Alphonsus’s teachings on Mary?

Yes, indeed you are.

Maybe it’s just hyperbole and not to be taken as literally as it reads.

Good, now we are getting somewhere.

But I am not questioning his sanctity or intelligence, just some aspects of his mariology.

Since he is a Doctor of the Church, whose mariology has been held up by the Church as exemplary, I would not use the word overboard concerning his teachings.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Is anyone else uncomfortable with the the phrase “Our Life, Our Sweetness, and Our Hope.”?

I am. For starters, I live for God/Jesus not Mary. To say Mary is my life is an affront to God and Christ and their Primacy.

I could live with the sweetness though, and see nothing wrong with this word to describe her.

The next words bother me though. Mary isn’t my hope, Christ is, because ultimately is through Him that I get to God.

Can anyone explain this to me in a better way perhaps because that is how I see it.

I pray the Rosary. I love Mary, she is my mother, she does intercede for me and I’m very appreciative for that but to say these things about her, I feel that it elevates her above God. I ommit this when I say the prayer.

My goodness you are proud!

To say you pray the Rosary but that St. Bernard, keyword SAINT, the honey-tongued teacher, was wrong, along with other saints for obvious reasons than you are as prideful as can be.

And to those who forget that justice is an aspect of charity, telling the truth directly is sometimes better than dancing around the issue, Pride.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Then your “huge Catholic family” was not Catholic in Spirit and Truth buddy. Sorry to break it to you. Don’t blame it on Mary for their lukewarmness. It is their own fault.

No, friend: it’s just that their mother stressed the wrong things. She concentrated too much on private revelation and Marian devotions without having first built a strong foundation on Christ.

I hope you aren’t too shocked to learn that such a thing is possible but it is-- I was there, and I witnessed it.

 

[Sam_Maloney]

Mary is not some extravagance.

Didn’t say she was: I was referring to the specific language at issue here. Much like the Marian devotees who claim that Mary is holding back God’s anger [thus making her His superior in love and forgiveness], it is possible to carry even a very good thing too far.

 

[Pro_Domina]

Didn’t say she was: I was referring to the specific language at issue here. Much like the Marian devotees who claim that Mary is holding back God’s anger [thus making her His superior in love and forgiveness], it is possible to carry even a very good thing too far.

But its true, unless you, armchair theologan, have come up with a brilliant new idea, which I would quickly make you choke on.

Anything except saying she is God pretty much goes

Take a hike and stop being so prideful.

 

[paperwight]

But its true, unless you, armchair theologan, have come up with a brilliant new idea, which I would quickly make you choke on.

Anything except saying she is God pretty much goes

Take a hike and stop being so prideful.

That is offensive and unjust. Cannot you accept that it is possible to have respect and love for Our Lady, while at the same time, being concerned that the sacrifice of Our Lord, and the love for us of the Father are not being given due value and honour?

It is not prideful to be worried that the devtion shown to our Lady by some people seems to compete with, or even completely outweigh, the Christian message.

Is it in the Creed that Mary is ‘our life, our sweetness and our hope?’ Jesus said ‘I am the life’. Jesus is the Lamb of God once slain, Jesus pleads for us before the Father, Jesus is ever-living to make intercession for us. Portraying Mary as holding back the wrathful arm of God lest He strike us is a travesty, and as someone said, making her more powerful than God…

 

[JPUSC]

Portraying Mary as holding back the wrathful arm of God lest He strike us is a travesty, and as someone said, making her more powerful than God…

Jesus does obey what his mother requests of him. At the Wedding in Cana, she said, “Do whatever he tells you” and Jesus complied with her wishes.

God is the one who sent Our Lady to Fatima to warn the world of its sinfulness and to bring people back to Him. That is essence of Fatima, Lourdes, Guadalupe and other approved Marian apparitions. God used Mary to convert the Aztecs in what is now the largest Catholic region in the world.

St. Faustina of the Church approved Divine Mercy message says that Mary, due to her Immaculate Conception and her giving birth to Mercy Incarnate, “is first to praise the omnipotence of Your mercy.”

St. Faustina often referred to Mary as a model: “You are the model of my life” (874) and “I model my life on you” (1232).

thedivinemercy.org/news/story.php?NID=3264

 

[JPUSC]

Justice is part of God’s nature since he is perfect. That is why purgatory and hell exist. He often uses Our Lady to bring his children back to him so that he doesn’t have to inflict his wrath.

Jesus told St. Gertrude the Great, “My love urges Me to release the Poor Souls. If a beneficent king leaves his guilty friend in prison for justice’s sake, he awaits with longing for one of his nobles to plead for the prisoner and to offer something for his release. Then the king joyfully, sets him free. Similarly, I accept with highest pleasure what is offered to Me for the Poor Souls, for I long inexpressibly to have near Me those for whom I paid so great a price. By the prayers of thy loving soul, I am induced to free a prisoner from Purgatory as often as thou dost move thy tongue to utter a word of prayer!”

 

[fix]

Didn’t say she was: I was referring to the specific language at issue here. Much like the Marian devotees who claim that Mary is holding back God’s anger [thus making her His superior in love and forgiveness], it is possible to carry even a very good thing too far.

The language is not the problem Our understanding of it is the problem.

 

[fix]

Mary Is the Hope of Sinners

We may even say with St. Basil that God has given us Mary as a public infirmary to receive the sick, the poor, the destitute. But in hospitals which are erected expressly for the poor, who have the first claim to admission? Surely those who are sicker than others.

Say then, with St. Thomas of Villanova, “O Mary, we poor sinners know no other refuge but you; you are our only patroness, and we all look to you!”

In the revelations of St. Bridget, Mary is called the “Star that rises before the Sun.”

When a soul in sin begins to show signs of devotion to Mary, it is a clear indication that before very long God will enrich it with His grace.

 

[RyanML]

But its true, unless you, armchair theologan, have come up with a brilliant new idea, which I would quickly make you choke on.

Anything except saying she is God pretty much goes

Take a hike and stop being so prideful.

Certainly the “prayers of the righteous avail much” (James 5:16), but God is not bound by the will of His creation, even His Holy Mother.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I think with the exchanges that have been going on; some with an an obvious lack of Christian charity, we forget that God in his infiniteness of love and mercy gives us all a means of coming closer to him. Yes, he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. BUT, he gave us his mother as a model and as our mother also. Lets not forget that. She is the mediatrix of all grace. All grace that we receive, comes to us from God through her. This is a teaching of the Church. His grace comes to us through her, just as he became man through her, for each of us. He gave her to us as our mother while he was on the cross. Her only message to us throughout the ages has always been, “Do whatever he tells you to do”. If you don’t think she plays an important part in our salvation, just stop and think of where we would be if she had not given her “fiat” at the annunciation. We owe much to her, because she has done much for us. Do not belittle that by such exchanges as have been posted.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

 

[fix]

I think with the exchanges that have been going on; some with an an obvious lack of Christian charity, we forget that God in his infiniteness of love and mercy gives us all a means of coming closer to him. Yes, he is the Way, the Truth and the Life. BUT, he gave us his mother as a model and as our mother also. Lets not forget that. She is the mediatrix of all grace. All grace that we receive, comes to us from God through her. This is a teaching of the Church. His grace comes to us through her, just as he became man through her, for each of us. He gave her to us as our mother while he was on the cross. Her only message to us throughout the ages has always been, “Do whatever he tells you to do”. If you don’t think she plays an important part in our salvation, just stop and think of where we would be if she had not given her “fiat” at the annunciation. We owe much to her, because she has done much for us. Do not belittle that by such exchanges as have been posted.
Prayers & blessings
Deacon Ed B

amen

 

[Sam_Maloney]

But its true, unless you, armchair theologan, have come up with a brilliant new idea, which I would quickly make you choke on.

Anything except saying she is God pretty much goes

Take a hike and stop being so prideful.

You are so very, very angry that I can’t understand the point you are trying to make, or if you even have one.

I hope God blesses you with a lovely day.

 

[Aramis]

Is there any other type of Rosary besides Dominican? Just wondering.

The Chotki is sometimes called the Jesus Rosary. several forms exist, including 33, 50, 100, 103, and 150 beads, saying the Jesus prayer in one of its many forms. See newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm towards the bottom for examples of the chotki. The article is rather minimalist in its treatment of the Eastern Churches, both Orthodox and “Uniats” (as used in the article), and doesn’t mention the 33 nor 50 bead chotkis.

The Marian aka Dominican Rosary is the one most Roman Rite catholics are familiar with.

Several other sets of prayer beads are in use; many have been for centuries. See newadvent.org/cathen/02361c.htm

and from another article in the old Catholic Encyclopedia:

As regards the origin of the name, the word rosarius means a garland or bouquet of roses, and it was not unfrequently used in a figurative sense – e.g. as the title of a book, to denote an anthology or collection of extracts. An early legend which after travelling all over Europe penetrated even to Abyssinia connected this name with a story of Our Lady, who was seen to take rosebuds from the lips of a young monk when he was reciting Hail Marys and to weave them into a garland which she placed upon her head. A German metrical version of this story is still extant dating from the thirteenth century. The name “Our Lady’s Psalter” can also be traced back to the same period. Corona or chaplet suggests the same idea as rosarium. The old English name found in Chaucer and elsewhere was a “pair of beads”, in which the word bead originally meant prayers.
newadvent.org/cathen/13184b.htm

 

[Alethiaphile]

Plus, She gave birth to all of us at the foot of the Cross so in another mystical sense, she is the Mother of Life.

“Gave birth to all of us at the foot of the Cross…”