The Hard Sayings

  • Thread starter Thread starter HerrZJA
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
H

HerrZJA

Guest
All right, I’ve been mulling this one over for a while with the SO, who brought it up in the first place. Full disclosure is that neither her or I are Catholic; she identifies herself as a non-denominational Christian, and I call myself a potential-convert on my more pious days.

In any event, we often have discussions about faith, which is a reasonably healthy thing to do, and about a week and a half ago, we were talking about baptism, since I was planning on being baptized when I complete RCIA in Easter. She made an interesting point that I sort of knew without knowing, if that makes any sense. She said something to the effect that baptism means you are prepared to set aside your own beliefs on right and wrong to accept the bible’s position wholeheartedly.

It gave me pause, obviously, because neither of us are especially devout followers of the “rules”, as it were. We’re both relatively far to the left. I can’t speak for her politics (because that goes outside my privledge), but I can talk about mine. I wouldn’t ever advise anyone to get an abortion, but I’m not against them being legal. I believe in other forms of birth control, and think they should be used. I’m not a big fan of the church’s position on gay rights, either.

I’m not saying this to start a row, but I’m saying it because it’s sort of a sticking point. I’m absolutely convicted about the existence of Christ… in fact, I’m fairly certain of everything in the apostle’s creed… but when it comes down to the nitty-gritty practical matters, where faith and day-to-day life meet, I hit a sticking point.

That’s what I need help with, I suppose. How do we digest the hard sayings of the bible? How can I believe it in one way, but set that belief aside when it’s no longer convenient… which is to say, how do I stop doing that?

I really want to get this. I want to make this real.
 
Christ, Who alone is the Truth, calls us to Him. You are to the left. I was to the right. I had to change or moderate my life-long beliefs on many moral issues, particularly the death penalty. I have given up much of what I believed, simply because I know that Christ is superior to all of my preferences. Christ calls each of us to “deny yourself, take up your cross and follow Me”. This is the most difficult thing you will ever do, but it is also the most ultimately comforting and rewarding.

Christ is the Captain of His ship, the Church. Now, we can inhabit either the left or right side of Christ’s ship, but the ship has a railing to keep us in check. If we go beyond the rail, we drown. The rail was put there out of love of us. As well, neither the right way nor the left way is necessarily correct. We must begin to think as Christ taught us. Our goal is the same, but we differ on how to achieve it. You may have heard that the left is brainless and the right is heartless. I want to be neither, so I moved toward the center, which is Christ. Once you take political parties and alliances out of it, and begin to think strictly in terms of Church teaching, life becomes much simpler - but still not simple.

To follow Christ is to be holy. Holy means “set apart”. Thus, we must give up our worldliness and seek holiness. Christ founded a Church and gave it all authority on earth and in heaven. We are well advised to listen to her.

Get a catechism and study on your hot button issues. You will see an immense amount of reasoning and pure morality contained within the covers of an $8 book.

Christ’s peace be with you.
 
I encourage you to think of the Early Christians…

They knew that their Yes to Christ and his Church meant a bunch of little “no’s” to the things in their world…and that it meant they could be martyred.

They stood knowing this…before Baptism and turned to the west and renounced the Devil and all his pomps…all that was contrary to Christ (and thus to his Church) and then turned to the east towards Christ and professed their Faith!

Their great Yes and our great “Yes!” to Christ does involve certain “no’s” but so does other lesser loves…such as Marriage…the great YES! is well worth it…it is the yes of Love…of truth…of self donation.

When Jesus told his disciples about the Eucharist…some left him and no longer followed him…Jesus then turned to his Apostles and asked --are you too going to leave me?..to which Peter replied…where would we go? YOU have the words of eternal life…

It is Jesus of Nazareth who one discovers…and encounters…the great YES to him…makes all the little no’s of no account…in him one finds the meaning of ones life…and of everything…

One finds him…and comes to realize…he is Who he said he is…and one find the joy of knowing him…the Joy of his love…the joy of the Resurrection…the joy of him.

for HE is the truth and life. * True life*

Please read this one in particular:

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2006/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20060108_battesimo_en.html

Also here is some testimonies of the Martyrs:

earlychristians.org/testimonies_martyrs/scillitan_saints.html

earlychristians.org/testimonies_martyrs/justin.html

I hope you will also read these others…

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090628_chius-anno-paolino_en.html (keep reading…the whole thing…about the renewal of the mind etc)

vatican.va/holy_father/benedict_xvi/homilies/2009/documents/hf_ben-xvi_hom_20090405_palm-sunday_en.html

earlychristians.org/testimonies_martyrs/polycarp.html

"…the happiness you are seeking, the happiness you have a right to enjoy has a name and a face: it is Jesus of Nazareth…

I repeat today what I said at the beginning of my Pontificate: “If we let Christ into our lives, we lose nothing, nothing, absolutely nothing of what makes life free, beautiful and great. No! Only in this friendship are the doors of life opened wide. Only in this friendship is the great potential of human existence truly revealed. Only in this friendship do we experience beauty and liberation” (Homily at the Mass of Inauguration, 24 April 2005).

Be completely convinced of this: Christ takes from you nothing that is beautiful and great, but brings everything to perfection for the glory of God, the happiness of men and women, and the salvation of the world." Pope Benedict XVI Aug 28 2005

Then I propose to you…keep turning towards Christ…do not give up…keep reading…an praying…and going to RCIA etc …and know that it may take time before you can come fully into this…and approach Baptism with that great yes!

But do not give up!

And if I may add my little voice (as a convert from years ago) to those of the great numbers who have gone before us…it is the well worth it…(that is an understatement)

knowing Jesus of Nazareth…(and the life I have now in him…)

he is true life.
 
Pray: “Jesus …I believe you have the words of eternal life…help me follow you”
 
(Post 1 of 2)
baptism means you are prepared to set aside your own beliefs on right and wrong to accept the bible’s position wholeheartedly.
Well, i wouldn’t call it “the bibles position” because the bible itself is just a book, although i’m sure you mean Gods position? because even though the bible is just a book, it is still Gods word, the author of the bible being the Holy Ghost,
but anyways, it’s not about setting aside your beliefs for someone elses, instead it is about abandoning sin and seeking to know, love, and serve God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength,
but you are not asked to follow blindly, or to believe without reason, God does not ask that and the church encourages strongly that you be much more questioning and seek to understand everything rather than to simply accept it, of course it should not be done in a doubting manner, but instead with more open mindedness.
we cannot base our belief one way or the other off of what we simply do not understand, a lack of understanding is in no way a reasonable excuse to disbelieve something.

but the answer to this particular dilemma is, simply pray on it, and patiently seek the truth, preferably from a priest and good catholic books, such as ones from here - www.tanbooks.com
I wouldn’t ever advise anyone to get an abortion, but I’m not against them being legal. I believe in other forms of birth control, and think they should be used. I’m not a big fan of the church’s position on gay rights, either.
I want you to think about this, what do those 3 things you named off have in common?
abortion to kill babies, birth control to prevent babies, homosexuality to have nothing to do with babies…the answer is not babies however, the one thing those 3 things have in common is, they are all focused on sex, generally speaking,
it may not seem like such a big deal when you’re looking at each thing individually, but if you look at the big picture, and see how absolutely perverted and lustful our world is right now, it’s really far worse than you think,
our society is obsessed with sex, it’s everywhere, tv, internet, magazines, movies, books, advertisements, and worst of all, in the minds of most human beings, even our little children,
and these things, abortion, birth control, homosexuality, they have all come about because of sex abuse, meaning, the misuse of sex outside it’s proper place, which is inside marriage between a man and a woman for the procreation and education of children and a show of mutual love for each other.
that is the purpose God made it for, and it belongs only to husband and wife, and only with an openness for having children, if it is used outside marriage or with the intention of preventing conception, then it is not only a sin against the 6th and 9th commandments, but also the 1st and 7th commandments, and if the termination of a life is involved, than also the 5th commandment…

well, i won’t get into that to much right now, instead i will try to address each of your issues one at a time,
first of all, abortion, why is it bad? well,
you believe in souls, even your wife does, so this is a good starting point,
at the moment of conception, even before the body is formed, a soul is created, and that soul will live forever, whether it’s born or not,
but if it is aborted, and not baptized, then where does it go? it would be nice to think, maybe a place of eternal happiness outside of heaven…but that is only wishful thinking, and we really don’t know,
now even if we cannot know for sure when exactly the soul is created, does that mean we should decide to risk it and let a child die because they might not have a soul? that sounds kind of backwards to me, shouldn’t we take the stance to err on the side of caution and not risk it in case the baby does have a soul?
isn’t it important enough? aren’t our immortal souls the most important thing? nothing on earth is worth the loss of our souls, and yet millions of babies are being aborted each year…even if we don’t know when life starts, does that mean it’s ok to risk it?
think of it, eternity, it’s forever, and those souls will live forever, what are we doing?

when you get right down to it…the reason for all this abortion is not anything except selfishness and disrespect for life, do you think if everyone had more love and respect and charity and compassion that any baby would die this way? i don’t think so…abortion happens because there’s evil in the world, and if anyone tries to support abortion, they are only supporting the devils wishes, whether they know it or not,
sure some people have good intentions, but that doesn’t change the nature of the sin, and in any case of an unborn baby dieing without baptism, the devil wins…
there are some things in life we just can’t respect, and abortion is one of those things…

and then of course there’s the common question, what about rape victims?
well, according to statistics, 1% of all abortions occur because of rape or incest; 6% of abortions occur because of potential health problems regarding either the mother or child, and 93% of all abortions occur for social reasons (i.e. the child is unwanted or inconvenient).
so, less than 1% of abortions occur because of rape, that is hardly enough to justify abortion,
and then you must consider, it is still a life, still a soul, which God loves, and who would love you!,
even the child of a rape victim is precious, and what have they done to deserve death?
the child is an innocent victim caught in the middle,
and do you think an abortion would make things better? quite the opposite really, it makes things worse, mentally and physically, which you can read up on here - abortionfacts.com/effects/effects.asp
we must fight abortion not just for the sake of the child, but also the mother!
 
(post 2 of 2)

this is indeed a tough subject to talk about, but it really needs to be talked about, for the sake of life, which is so precious, and right now so very disrespected, we need to defend these little lives which cannot defend themselves,
and just think of what a great influence it would have on others, for a mother to choose her child’s life over her own suffering no matter how great, how inspiring that would be,
we always look at those who sacrificed their own lives for others as hero’s, but what is it when a mother sacrifices her child’s life for her own sake? for her own comfort and ease?
of course it would be hard to go through an unwanted pregnancy, but not unbearable as long as we seek Gods help…it is only when we try to do it on our own that it seems impossible,

God created everyone in life with a purpose, every living soul has a purpose to accomplish, but that purpose can never be do die before even being born!

we must speak out against abortion, because abortion is only the start, it is a stepping stone for worse crimes,
by abortion life is being less and less respected and it is losing it’s priceless identity, and it can only get worse.

ok, so moving on to the next subject, homosexuality,
in most cases, people support homosexuality with the belief that, “It’s love! they just love each other, what is wrong with that?”
well, to be quite honest, there is nothing wrong with loving someone, and that is really not the problem,
i won’t get into every issue of why it’s a sin, but i will try to explain some of the more easy to understand reasons, just so i don’t make this to long,
first of all, homosexuals only form of “intercourse” is masturbation, and as we know, masturbation, along with every sin of impurity, is a mortal sin,
and then also, because God said “Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit, shall be cut down, and shall be cast into the fire.” what fruit does homosexuality bring forth? none at all…in and of itself it is useless,
there is a goal and a purpose in this life, which is, to get to heaven, and to know, love, and serve God, all things either work towards or against that goal and purpose, and nothing matters more than those things, because when we leave this world, we cannot bring anything with us, including sex, there is no sex in heaven, which proves even more that it is only meant for a specific purpose, and is not meant purely for our enjoyment.

and then let’s consider, how many people, because God forbids these sins of the flesh, choose to leave God and His church? a passage comes to mind regarding this - “No man can serve two masters. For either he will hate the one, and love the other: or he will sustain the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.” Matthew 6:24
people right now choose sex over God, they take sex as their master, and despise God and His teachings,
you cannot serve God and the flesh, because who you give your heart to, it is to them that you are a slave,
but to give you heart to the flesh, you are a trapped slave, unable to resist your passions and hardly able to control your feelings,
whereas to be a slave of God, you are a free slave, because God Himself wishes to be slave to you, to truly love God means to think only of God and only wish to do His will, and God who loves us so much, so immeasurable, only thinks of us, and never of Himself, and works always for our love and for the salvation of our souls,
true freedom is not in doing whatever you want, but instead it is in doing what is right, have you ever tried to abstain from your passions when you were really tempted by them? whether lust or anger or gluttony or greed, etc. if so, then you know how very enslaving they are, because they make it so hard not to sin whether you want to or not,
but when faced with doing something good, you only do it if you want to! do you see where the freedom truly is?

well…i could speak next about birth control, but i think i already answered that in both of the other subjects…so instead i’ll answer this…
How do we digest the hard sayings of the bible? How can I believe it in one way, but set that belief aside when it’s no longer convenient… which is to say, how do I stop doing that?
the simple answer is, as i said earlier, pray on it and research it, God will help you, He is patient with you because you are His creation and He knows more than anyone how you grow and learn,
we grow and learn gradually at a slow pace, because that way it does not overwhelm us, and because God is patient with you, you must also be patient with yourself,

and how you can believe Gods teaching without setting them aside when they seem inconvenient, is simply by practice and by really learning your faith, which you must ask Gods help in every day,
you must learn of and practice all your virtues, and pray for God to increase in you the ones that are infused, some of which you will obtain for the first time by baptism and confirmation,
that is another thing, when you are baptized you will receive the seven gifts of the Holy Ghost, which are wisdom, understanding, counsel, fortitude, knowledge, piety, and fear of the Lord,
and then at confirmation, you will receive the 12 fruits of the Holy Ghost, which are charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity, goodness, longanimity, mildness, faith, modesty, continency, and chastity.

so, while you do not understand all these things right now, after baptism and confirmation, you will improve in those things greatly, even if only at a gradual pace,

well, that is all for now, but to help you even more, check out these sites, which will help you far more than i can -
www.audiosancto.org
www.alabamacatholicresources.com/index.html
www.catholicapologetics.info/library/onlinelibrary/index.htm
www.catholicapologetics.info

ok, hope this helps, take care.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top