The Historical Accuracy of the Biblical Exodus

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bmonk said:
And, to get back to the original question, I’m not sure that there’s an official position on the historicity of Exodus. I think we would like it to be historical, but we can live with the evidence. And, at the least, the oddness of the story of Israel being a slave people rescued by God–that points to something happening.
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The True Centrist mentioned a bunch of cities being destroyed, is their any exact archeological date for their destruction? Out of curiosity.
 
You said:
The True Centrist mentioned a bunch of cities being destroyed, is their any exact archeological date for their destruction? Out of curiosity.
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I believe there is. I remember seeing it. Search for “evidence of Exodus”.
 
 
You said:
The True Centrist mentioned a bunch of cities being destroyed, is their any exact archeological date for their destruction? Out of curiosity.
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There are estimates. Based on the evidence from Egypt, people have come up with one or two possible times for the exodus. The problem is that archaeology has found that the cities that the bible says were destroyed soon after were actually uninhabited at those times. In other words, the cities didn’t exist to destroy.
 
You said:
Have you asked yourself what evidence you would expect to find if the Exodus happened. I ask this because I walked halfway across a continent and I left no archeological trace of my journey apart from some rollup cigarette buts, but they won’t last for 3,000 years. I carried nothing but 1 shirt and 1 trousers + 1 small towel. In other words I used the pottery, accommodation (such as it was), etc. that I found in settlements all along the way, so I left no trace of my journey but I was there.
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In travelling across a heavily populated country, one person might be expected to leave no trace. Not so when a large group crosses a wilderness and spends an entire generation doing it.

Then again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don’t know the exact path they took and I doubt that all of coastal Egypt, Sinai and lower Israel was scoured for remnants of the Exodus.

ICXC NIKA
 
GEddie said:
In travelling across a heavily populated country, one person might be expected to leave no trace. Not so when a large group crosses a wilderness and spends an entire generation doing it.

Then again, absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. We don’t know the exact path they took and I doubt that all of coastal Egypt, Sinai and lower Israel was scoured for remnants of the Exodus.

ICXC NIKA
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I only mention that to help imagine what could be found and what may not be found. A large crowd leaving Egypt traveling by caravan carries everything they need initially. But they will ditch extra weight in Egypt not Israel, the Pharoah is chasing, after a few months on the peninsula most if not all the earthenware pottery has been replaced by locally produced ware, etc.
If someone asked me why the archaeologists don’t find egyptian ware in Israel in that period I would ask them if they would cook their own stew in the same earthenware pot their granny used to eat from. The only trace camels leave is their footprints. It doesn’t sound like they stopped to build a city anywhere, they were travelling. They need food, cloth and pottery constantly throughout 40 years, this means trading with local villages and towns for local ware. If it was me looking around after 3,000 years I would not hold out too much hope of finding much. Perhaps search through middens near any ancient villages/towns up to 500-1000 miles from the proposed Red Sea crossing place for egyptian ware inscribed with hebrew, but thats a long shot I think. Nomads tend to blend in unless they build something or occupy a town for a very long period.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
There are estimates. Based on the evidence from Egypt, people have come up with one or two possible times for the exodus. The problem is that archaeology has found that the cities that the bible says were destroyed soon after were actually uninhabited at those times. In other words, the cities didn’t exist to destroy.
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You might be talking about Jericho. All I’ll say is that I stayed the night in villages that were over 80% ruins. There was one with a small church, a bar, a few stone houses still occupied, the road through was just trampled rock and every other building was stone built but in ruins, walls collapsed, no roof and so on. People can live on in ruined places long after they cease functioning as a full blown town or city. An interesting thought, the defensive stone walls of Jericho could last through hundreds of years of neglect even if a small or varying population occupying Jericho was never strong enough in number or resources to maintain the walls. Joshua and army may have more success knocking poorly maintained walls than well maintained walls. Just thinking.
 
One thing I don’t understand is why the 40 years. A person could walk from Egypt to Israel across the north of the peninsula in two and a half days. :hmmm:
 
GEddie said:
Because human life is inherently physical, and so the life of a large society can be expected to have left recognizable physical traces?

TTC: some sources, please?🙂

ICXC NIKA
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Its interesting to see how some only see the subjective value of old historical biblical writings when analyzing the differences in perception and consideration, be it physical evidence or otherwise.
IMHO; the biblical history of Exodus, as with a number of writings in the Pentateuch, and indeed the entire Bible has an absolute unity by absolute reason of “divine purpose”.
Because it is Supernatural, the purpose is beyond the effective control of modern scientific history.
Therefore; the ultimate meaning of Exodus like so many other books in the Bible, will always elude human relativism, and the historian who works outside its religious postulates.
 
You said:
One thing I don’t understand is why the 40 years. A person could walk from Egypt to Israel across the north of the peninsula in two and a half days. :hmmm:
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They were being led by God, following His pillar of fire/column of smoke. Having got almost into Israel, their leadership (except for Joshua) became afraid and refused to go on because of the fearsome reputation of the Canaanites. God gave them what they wanted and ceased leading them onward.

Also, they were not taking the coastal trail, because God knew they would lose faith if they had to fight along the road. There were Egytians on the north rim of Sinai that were bypassed. Had they taken the northern trail through Gaza, they would not have needed to cross the Jordan at the end.

ICXC NIKA
 
You said:
I only mention that to help imagine what could be found and what may not be found. A large crowd leaving Egypt traveling by caravan carries everything they need initially. But they will ditch extra weight in Egypt not Israel, the Pharoah is chasing, after a few months on the peninsula most if not all the earthenware pottery has been replaced by locally produced ware, etc.
If someone asked me why the archaeologists don’t find egyptian ware in Israel in that period I would ask them if they would cook their own stew in the same earthenware pot their granny used to eat from. The only trace camels leave is their footprints. It doesn’t sound like they stopped to build a city anywhere, they were travelling. They need food, cloth and pottery constantly throughout 40 years, this means trading with local villages and towns for local ware. If it was me looking around after 3,000 years I would not hold out too much hope of finding much. Perhaps search through middens near any ancient villages/towns up to 500-1000 miles from the proposed Red Sea crossing place for egyptian ware inscribed with hebrew, but thats a long shot I think. Nomads tend to blend in unless they build something or occupy a town for a very long period.
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If there were half of a million people wandering in the desert for 40 years (in addition to their animals), lots of them would die. There should be a trail of skeletons.
 
centurionguard said:
Its interesting to see how some only see the subjective value of old historical biblical writings when analyzing the differences in perception and consideration, be it physical evidence or otherwise.
IMHO; the biblical history of Exodus, as with a number of writings in the Pentateuch, and indeed the entire Bible has an absolute unity by absolute reason of “divine purpose”.
Because it is Supernatural, the purpose is beyond the effective control of modern scientific history.
Therefore; the ultimate meaning of Exodus like so many other books in the Bible, will always elude human relativism, and the historian who works outside its religious postulates.
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Its fine if you still want to make religious conclusions based on the books, but I think it is important to understand the limitations of what you are reading. People frequently point to the stories of Exodus as examples of how God cares for his people. That is foolish, it would be like pointing to the legend of King Arthur as evidence for the superiority of monarchy. It is not evidence of anything because it is fictional. If people want to understand Exodus symbolically, that is fine. If you think God is telling us that he takes care of us when we are wandering in figurative deserts, that is up to you. But to use the stories in Exodus as evidence of things God has done is to build your arguments on a very shaky foundation.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
If there were half of a million people wandering in the desert for 40 years (in addition to their animals), lots of them would die. There should be a trail of skeletons.
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I looked it up and the life expectancy at that time was right around 40 years. That would mean on average, no one survived the entire Exodus. Put another way, there should have been at least as many deaths as there were people, or over half a million.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
I looked it up and the life expectancy at that time was right around 40 years. That would mean on average, no one survived the entire Exodus. Put another way, there should have been at least as many deaths as there were people, or over half a million.
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All during the Exodus we saw miracles. Who is to say anyone died during the 40 years? Perhaps manna was a superfood.
 
TheTrueCentrist said:
If there were half of a million people wandering in the desert for 40 years (in addition to their animals), lots of them would die. There should be a trail of skeletons.
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I’m probably wrong but I thought all of them died and that it was their children who saw Israel.
I wouldn’t worry about finding skeletons, its the Iron age or maybe the middle bronze age, too long ago.
 
You said:
I’m probably wrong but I thought all of them died and that it was their children who saw Israel.
I wouldn’t worry about finding skeletons, its the Iron age or maybe the middle bronze age, too long ago.
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The life expectancy estimates are based on skeletal remains from the time period. There are lots of human remains from that time period. It is my understanding that skeletons last a very long time in the desert due to the low moisture and the dearth of other organisms that might help them decompose.
 
buffalo said:
All during the Exodus we saw miracles. Who is to say anyone died during the 40 years? Perhaps manna was a superfood.
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Cute, but if that were the case we would have found a location where the population had a life expectancy significantly higher than the surrounding areas. Unless they never died at all.
 
You said:
I’m probably wrong but I thought all of them died and that it was their children who saw Israel.
I wouldn’t worry about finding skeletons, its the Iron age or maybe the middle bronze age, too long ago.
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You’re mostly right, all of them died except Joshua who led them through. Moses lived long enough to see Israel from a distance but never set foot there.

I’d imagine the bones were scattered by desert scavengers long since. It’s not like they had cemeteries and ossuaries; they were wandering in the desert.
 
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