The historicity of the Church

[edkw55]

joe371;12010540:

…its about trusting the the teaching of Christ and the first apostles.

…as taught in Sacred Scripture. To deviate from the sole authority of Sacred Scripture is a sure road to false doctrine and heresy.

Ed

 

[FathersKnowBest]

The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning “on the whole”, “according to the whole” or “in general”, and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning “about” and όλος meaning “whole”.

As a Protestant I consider myself to be in full union with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church established by Jesus.

Peace be with all.

Ed

How would that be?

St. Paul says that we are one body (the Body of Christ) because we all partake of One Bread:

1Co 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

As a protestant, do you partake of the one bread?

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Having been away from this conversation for a number of days, I was quite disappointed to see that my question had gone unanswered.

Regarding HOW the Holy Spirit speaks to us, I had asked:

Originally Posted by benhur
We are close for I see also that the holy spirt speaks thru the apostles and peter.I see one vicar the HS, using twelve, the “us”’ not too mention the other elders etc,- us is us,not just “one”.

 

[benhur]

The word catholic (with lowercase c; derived via Late Latin catholicus, from the Greek adjective καθολικός (katholikos), meaning “universal”) comes from the Greek phrase καθόλου (katholou), meaning “on the whole”, “according to the whole” or “in general”, and is a combination of the Greek words κατά meaning “about” and όλος meaning “whole”.

As a Protestant I consider myself to be in full union with the one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church established by Jesus.

Peace be with all.

Ed

Agree. At some point the adjective became a noun (capital C).

 

[benhur]

How would that be?

St. Paul says that we are one body (the Body of Christ) because we all partake of One Bread:

1Co 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

As a protestant, do you partake of the one bread?

Luciem gentum says we are one. and no one partakes of one loaf anymore…Also are you discerning His Body ?

 

[benhur]

Having been away from this conversation for a number of days, I was quite disappointed to see that my question had gone unanswered.

Regarding HOW the Holy Spirit speaks to us, I had asked:

Lets see, I acknowledged the HS speaks thru the twelve apostles even us, so that includes Peter doesn’t it ? Ananias is said to have lied to the Spirit of the Lord well that was his wife but he lied to the holy Spirit. Peter may have had a word of knowledge and confronted their lie.The apostles did many signs wonders amongst the church, vs 12 ch 5 Acts.

 

[sallybutler]

IgnatianPhilo;12003450:

Yes, to shepherd but not to “rule”.

And who appoints the shepherd, the sheep or the owner of the sheep?

 

[edkw55]

How would that be?

St. Paul says that we are one body (the Body of Christ) because we all partake of One Bread:

1Co 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

As a protestant, do you partake of the one bread?

Yes

 

[FathersKnowBest]

Luciem gentum says we are one. and no one partakes of one loaf anymore…Also are you discerning His Body ?

Absolutely I am.
And, yes, we in the Catholic Church DO partake of one loaf, since the Eucharist is all One Christ:****

Ignatius of Antioch

“I have no taste for corruptible food nor for the pleasures of this life. I desire the bread of God, which is the flesh of Jesus Christ, who was of the seed of David; and for drink I desire his blood, which is love incorruptible” (Letter to the Romans 7:3 [A.D. 110]).

“Take note of those who hold heterodox opinions on the grace of Jesus Christ which has come to us, and see how contrary their opinions are to the mind of God. . . . They abstain from the Eucharist and from prayer because they do not confess that the Eucharist is the flesh of our Savior Jesus Christ, flesh which suffered for our sins and which that Father, in his goodness, raised up again. They who deny the gift of God are perishing in their disputes” (Letter to the Smyrnaeans 6:2–7:1 [A.D. 110]).

 

[edkw55]

Yes but remember you are a new creation now buffeting that old man. The glorious miracle of faith in Christ far outshines the deeds of the flesh in any tense.
And may we all have the mind of Christ. Blessings.

Amen!

“Be still, and know that I am God”

 

[edkw55]

How would that be?

St. Paul says that we are one body (the Body of Christ) because we all partake of One Bread:

1Co 10:17 Because there is one bread, we who are many are one body, for we all partake of the one bread.

As a protestant, do you partake of the one bread?

Am I a heretic in thinking that God allows us a certain degree of liberty in what we believe the Eucharist to be(a symbolic ordinance, Consubstantiation, Transubstantiation, etc.)?

 

[Cube2]

And which TYPE of Christian would that be, i.e., since the 1500’s, we have seen an ARRAY of Christian denominations claiming to have the correct teachings/interpretations of the Bible (based on the rejection of CC dogmas and Traditions), i.e., Lutherans, Calvinism, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Quakers, Puritans, Pentecostals, Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Dispensationalists, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Evangelicals, Messianic Jews . . . .

Please pick the denomination that best fits the teachings of Christ and his apostles (and this list is not exhaustive).

Moreover, the divide between Catholic CHRISTIANS and Christians is that the former guarded the truth as was handed down by Christ to his apostles while the latter forsook it.

There was only ONE church with ONE faith expressed throughout the whole (as was so eloquently expressed by St. Irenaeus in my prior post), and that faith/Tradition was protected and guarded by the Catholic Church (prior to as well as after the edict of Milan).

I have several questions on Christianity as presented by Jesus himself, and the Apostles.

1. What did Jesus say was the qualification to enter heaven?
2. What qualifies one to be a Christian?

I have sought the teachings of Jesus and they say this.
Luke:18:18: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke:18:22: Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Another passage on Jesus’ teaching.
John:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him (Nicodemus), Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John:3:14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John:3:15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The passages are many, but I’ll limit myself to these 2 because of space.
Am amazed by how simply the thief on the cross, a bad man who was condemned, was ushered into paradise. Not even baptized, not even eaten the Eucharist, not a church member, not a saint, no sacraments etc. He only believed in Jesus.
Zachaeus the short rich man was visited by Jesus and his life changed.
The Samaritan woman at the well with Jesus realized the time of God’s visitation. She believed in Jesus and her life was changed.

Jesus way of qualifying to enter heaven is very different compared to the man-made qualifications. To be a member of any denomination does not qualify anybody to enter heaven. But to be in a church setting is important for edifying and encouraging one another.
Believe in Jesus is the ultimate qualification, followed by a righteous living.
The revelation of who Christ is makes a big difference.

 

[Nicea325]

I have several questions on Christianity as presented by Jesus himself, and the Apostles.

1. What did Jesus say was the qualification to enter heaven?
2. What qualifies one to be a Christian?

I have sought the teachings of Jesus and they say this.
Luke:18:18: And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
Luke:18:22: Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.

Another passage on Jesus’ teaching.
John:3:3: Jesus answered and said unto him (Nicodemus), Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
John:3:14: And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up:
John:3:15: That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

The passages are many, but I’ll limit myself to these 2 because of space.
Am amazed by how simply the thief on the cross, a bad man who was condemned, was ushered into paradise. Not even baptized, not even eaten the Eucharist, not a church member, not a saint, no sacraments etc. He only believed in Jesus.
Zachaeus the short rich man was visited by Jesus and his life changed.
The Samaritan woman at the well with Jesus realized the time of God’s visitation. She believed in Jesus and her life was changed.

Jesus way of qualifying to enter heaven is very different compared to the man-made qualifications. To be a member of any denomination does not qualify anybody to enter heaven. But to be in a church setting is important for edifying and encouraging one another.
Believe in Jesus is the ultimate qualification, followed by a righteous living.
The revelation of who Christ is makes a big difference.

And what makes your interpretation correct over other denominations? Is yours infallible?

 

[Son_of_Niall]

And which TYPE of Christian would that be, i.e., since the 1500’s, we have seen an ARRAY of Christian denominations claiming to have the correct teachings/interpretations of the Bible (based on the rejection of CC dogmas and Traditions), i.e., Lutherans, Calvinism, Anabaptists, Anglicans, Congregationalists, Methodists, Presbyterians, Quakers, Puritans, Pentecostals, Baptists, Seventh Day Adventists, Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, Dispensationalists, Unitarians, Episcopalians, Evangelicals, Messianic Jews . . . .

Please pick the denomination that best fits the teachings of Christ and his apostles (and this list is not exhaustive).

Moreover, the divide between Catholic CHRISTIANS and Christians is that the former guarded the truth as was handed down by Christ to his apostles while the latter forsook it.

There was only ONE church with ONE faith expressed throughout the whole (as was so eloquently expressed by St. Irenaeus in my prior post), and that faith/Tradition was protected and guarded by the Catholic Church (prior to as well as after the edict of Milan).

Much truth in what you post here. But it is not particularly fair to lump overt cults into the same category as “Protestant”. That, and your tone does not lead one to the truth of the Catholic Church.

 

[pablope]

Lets see, I acknowledged the HS speaks thru the twelve apostles even us, so that includes Peter doesn’t it ? Ananias is said to have lied to the Spirit of the Lord well that was his wife but he lied to the holy Spirit. Peter may have had a word of knowledge and confronted their lie.The apostles did many signs wonders amongst the church, vs 12 ch 5 Acts.

Originally Posted by FathersKnowBest View Post
Having been away from this conversation for a number of days, I was quite disappointed to see that my question had gone unanswered.

Regarding HOW the Holy Spirit speaks to us, I had asked:

Seems you still did not answer the question. It is not asking about the Apostles, but “us”.

So how does the HS speak to you? Can you cite a Bible passage that states this?

 

[pablope]

I have several questions on Christianity as presented by Jesus himself, and the Apostles.

1. What did Jesus say was the qualification to enter heaven?
2. What qualifies one to be a Christian?

 

[edkw55]

Two of the most crucial issues separating Roman Catholics and Protestants has always been authority and justification. For two years I researched history, Roman Catholic theology, and the writings of the early Church fathers thought the fifth century(Augustine, Jerome, etc.). I also spent six months in RCIA. I was sincerely and powerfully drawn to the Roman Catholic Church. For me the key issue was authority and I could not accept Romes claim of authority(Sacred Tradition/Sacred Magisterium).

The only authority I can accept is Sacred Scripture…

Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.

As for justification…

Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

Are there big problems in Protestantism today…Absolutely! Roman Catholicism has Her own problems as well.

God bless all.

Ed

 

[Nicea325]

Two of the most crucial issues separating Roman Catholics and Protestants has always been authority and justification. For two years I researched history, Roman Catholic theology, and the writings of the early Church fathers thought the fifth century(Augustine, Jerome, etc.). I also spent six months in RCIA. I was sincerely and powerfully drawn to the Roman Catholic Church. For me the key issue was authority and I could not accept Romes claim of authority(Sacred Tradition/Sacred Magisterium).

The only authority I can accept is Sacred Scripture…

Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.

As for justification…

Sola Fide (“faith alone”): We are saved through faith alone in Jesus Christ.
Sola Gratia (“grace alone”): We are saved by the grace of God alone.
Solus Christus (“Christ alone”): Jesus Christ alone is our Lord, Savior, and King.
Soli Deo Gloria (“to the glory of God alone”): We live for the glory of God alone.

Are there big problems in Protestantism today…Absolutely! Roman Catholicism has Her own problems as well.

God bless all.

Ed

Chapter and verse where the Bible is the highest authority?

 

[pablope]

T

The only authority I can accept is Sacred Scripture…

Sola Scriptura (“Scripture alone”): The Bible alone is our highest authority.

Ed

And where does Sacred Scripture derive its authority from?

And how does Sacred Scritpure exercise authority?

 

[edkw55]

The Sacred Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church stands or falls on whether or not Apostolic Succession is true. From all of my research, apostolic succession cannot be proven historically, from the writings of the early church fathers or Scripturally. Apostolic Succession is therefore a matter of interpretation and faith. That being the case I can only accept the authority of Sacred Scripture.

Ed