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edkw55
Guest
If you read through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation it is clearly implied throughout by God Himself. It’s not simply a matter of pointing out a particular verse here and there.
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edkw55
Guest
In answer to both questions…GodAnd where does Sacred Scripture derive its authority from?
And how does Sacred Scritpure exercise authority?
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Nicea325
Guest
Implied? According to those who believe the Bible is the highest authority. No where is it implied by God that the Bible-alone is the highest authority. You have been duped to believe in a man-made belief no where taught in the Bible.If you read through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation it is clearly implied throughout by God Himself. It’s not simply a matter of pointing out a particular verse here and there.
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Nicea325
Guest
Where does Jesus agree with you?In answer to both questions…God
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edkw55
Guest
Ok, I have a question.
We all agree that Sacred Scripture is the inspired word of God.
Are there writings by man outside of Scripture inspired in the manner of Sacred Scripture or these writings merely the opinion of man?
We all agree that Sacred Scripture is the inspired word of God.
Are there writings by man outside of Scripture inspired in the manner of Sacred Scripture or these writings merely the opinion of man?
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edkw55
Guest
I respectfully disagree and am certain God has not “duped” me.Implied? According to those who believe the Bible is the highest authority. No where is it implied by God that the Bible-alone is the highest authority. You have been duped to believe in a man-made belief no where taught in the Bible.
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edkw55
Guest
I would recommend reading through the Bible, Genesis 1 - Revelation 22, and when you are done…do it again…and again.Where does Jesus agree with you?
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pablope
Guest
So God came down, appeared to you and told you that Scripture derived its authority from Him? Or can you cite the chapter and verse where this is in the Bible?Originally Posted by pablope
And where does Sacred Scripture derive its authority from?
On the 2nd question…And how does Sacred Scritpure exercise authority…how the God do this?
Sacred Scripture is a book…so how does it exercise authority? Can you cite an passage or example where Scripture has exercised authority?
And a third question…how does God exercise authority on earth?
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pablope
Guest
There were writings that today, are not in the canon of the Bible…that were considered Scripture. And there are writings in today’s canon of the Bible that were considered as not Scripture.Ok, I have a question.
We all agree that Sacred Scripture is the inspired word of God.
Are there writings by man outside of Scripture inspired in the manner of Sacred Scripture or these writings merely the opinion of man?
So the question is…why and who made this decision to include and exclude books/writings in the Bible?
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pablope
Guest
How do you know you have not been duped?The bible also says that Satan can masquerade as an angle of light…so can you determine the true light from the false light?I respectfully disagree and am certain God has not “duped” me.
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pablope
Guest
Welll…either you have the verses, so provide them…or you do not and you evade in providing them…so which is it?If you read through the Bible from Genesis to Revelation it is clearly implied throughout by God Himself. It’s not simply a matter of pointing out a particular verse here and there.
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pablope
Guest
Really? Have you read Clements’ letter to Corinth, which was considered as inspired or part of Scripture initially?The Sacred Tradition of the Roman Catholic Church stands or falls on whether or not Apostolic Succession is true. From all of my research, apostolic succession cannot be proven historically, from the writings of the early church fathers or Scripturally. Apostolic Succession is therefore a matter of interpretation and faith. That being the case I can only accept the authority of Sacred Scripture.
Ed
CHAPTER 44
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;
44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.
44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.
So you disagree with Clement in 44:2 above?
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edkw55
Guest
Yes, I have read Clements’ letter to Corinth. I have spent two years reading the writings of the Church fathers through the fifth century, especially Augustine. I find no definitive proof in any of these writings (or in Church history) that support the Roman Catholic doctrine of Apostolic Succession. I wanted to believe the Roman Catholic Church has the authority She claims to have with all of my heart but in the end I could not and so I must remain Protestant. I have to say it was a very painful journey.Really? Have you read Clements’ letter to Corinth, which was considered as inspired or part of Scripture initially?
CHAPTER 44
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;
44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.
44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.
So you disagree with Clement in 44:2 above?
Well, I have a backed up septic system to tend to…a big mess in the basement…FUN!
God bless you.
Ed
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Nicea325
Guest
Evidently history is not your cup of tea.Yes, I have read Clements’ letter to Corinth. I have spent two years reading the writings of the Church fathers through the fifth century, especially Augustine.** I find no definitive proof in any of these writings (or in Church history) that support the Roman Catholic doctrine of Apostolic Succession.** I wanted to believe the Roman Catholic Church has the authority She claims to have with all of my heart but in the end I could not and so I must remain Protestant. I have to say it was a very painful journey.
Well, I have a backed up septic system to tend to…a big mess in the basement…FUN!
God bless you.
Ed
And where is your definitive proof the Bible-alone is the highest authority? Kindly show me where Jesus agrees with you?
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edkw55
Guest
You are right Nicea325. I make no claim of being a brilliant scholar of any sort. No Ph.D’s hanging on this guys wall.Evidently history is not your cup of tea.
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edkw55
Guest
You are right.The Bible nowhere states that it is the only authoritative guide for faith and practice. However, we know that the Bible is the Word of God. The Bible declares itself to be God-breathed, inerrant, and authoritative. That being the case all traditions, doctrines, and practices, whether Protestant or Roman Catholic, must be tested against what God has revealed in the Bible. Until someone proves to me another authority equal to the Bible I remain Protestant.Chapter and verse where the Bible is the highest authority?
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Cube2
Guest
If we would put everything else aside and focus on the 4 Gospel books, then we would see what I mean. My interpretation is not infallible, what would be infallible is what Jesus said and implied. Then we can correlate the same with the immediate Apostles’ writings: the epistles by Peter, Paul, John, Hebrews etcAnd what makes your interpretation correct over other denominations? Is yours infallible?
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Cube2
Guest
During Jesus time and before, the authority was from the holy scriptures.Evidently history is not your cup of tea.
And where is your definitive proof the Bible-alone is the highest authority? Kindly show me where Jesus agrees with you?
Jesus quoted alot of scriptures as an authority of his mission and actions, and reverence to God. Here are some examples:
Mark:12:24: And Jesus answering said unto them, Do ye not therefore err, because ye know not the scriptures, neither the power of God?
Mark:14:49: I was daily with you in the temple teaching, and ye took me not: but the scriptures must be fulfilled.
Luke:4:17-18: And there was delivered unto him the book of the prophet Esaias. And when he had opened the book, he found the place where it was written, the Spirit of the Lord is upon me, because he hath anointed me to preach the gospel to the poor…
Luk:4:20: And he closed the book, and he gave it again to the minister
Luk:4:21: And he began to say unto them, This day is this scripture fulfilled in your ears.
Luke:24:44: And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Luk:4:3: And the devil said unto him, If thou be the Son of God, command this stone that it be made bread.
Luk:4:4: And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.
Jesus used the OT scriptures to authenticate his Messianic mission. He used the same Scriptures to defeat the devil.
In Matt 28:20: Just before Jesus ascension, he commanded his disciples to, “make disciples and teach them to observe all things which he had commanded them…”
This is where the doctrine of scripture-alone and scripture = tradition loose one another.
Traditions were also there during the OT, but Jesus did not refer to them.
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edkw55
Guest
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God bless you.
Ed
I believe this letter to be authentic. Most reputable scholars(Protestant, Roman Catholic, as well as non-religious and others)have determined that this and many other writings of the early church fathers are genuine. It is tempting to read into Clement’s letter what you want to believe, namely the Roman Catholic doctrine of Apostolic Succession. I don’t see Clement as supporting this view at all and this applies to so many of the early fathers through at least the fifth century including Augustine(who has had such a tremendous impact on me). It wasn’t until after the fall of the Roman empire in the late fifth century, well into the middle ages, that the doctrines of Apostolic Succession and the primacy of the bishop of Rome(the Papacy)began to really gain ground.Really? Have you read Clements’ letter to Corinth, which was considered as inspired or part of Scripture initially?
CHAPTER 44
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;
44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.
44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.
So you disagree with Clement in 44:2 above?
God bless you.
Ed
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nmgauss
Guest
Exact citation of your source would be helpful. In which published document do we find this text?Really? Have you read Clements’ letter to Corinth, which was considered as inspired or part of Scripture initially?
CHAPTER 44
44:1 Our Apostles, too, by the instruction of our Lord Jesus Christ, knew that strife would arise concerning the dignity of a bishop;
44:2 and on this account, having received perfect foreknowledge, they appointed the above-mentioned as bishops and deacons: and then gave a rule of succession, in order that, when they had fallen asleep, other men, who had been approved, might succeed to their ministry.
44:3 Those who were thus appointed by them, or afterwards by other men of good repute, with the consent of the whole Church, who have blamelessly ministered to the flock of Christ with humility, quietly, and without illiberality, and who for a long time have obtained a good report from all, these, we think, have been unjustly deposed from the ministry.
So you disagree with Clement in 44:2 above?
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