The Holiness of the Virgin Mary

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guanophore said:
I prayed to Mary because we are told that She was the Mother of God by the Church and scripture.
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That’s cherry picking, and a bias.
The scriptures tell us Mary gave birth to Jesus, the Church tells us He was God, between the Church and scripture we are therefore told that She was the Mother of God.

I’m feeling a chill now for some reason, perhaps due to a dark cloud which has appeared and blotted the sunshine temporarily, so I’ll take my leave, but thank you gaunophore for indulging me again.
God bless.
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John 21:25…Jesus did many other things that if written down all the books of the world would not be enough…so his Apostles would have first hand knowledge of much more than the Bible…is it too hard to imagine that is where many of the traditions of the Catholic faith originated…from Jesus directing them about his church…so it would make sense that scripture and tradition are equally important…I would rather believe that the Blessed Virgin Mary was assumed into heaven than Protestants who not only removed 7 books from the old testament… but didn’t Luther also want to remove Hebrews…James…Jude and Revelation from the Canon…Elijah rode to heaven in a fiery chariot…Enoch was taken by God…Protestants argue that’s not true because Jesus is the only one who has “ascended” into heaven…but they seem to forget both Elijah and Enoch “ascended” into heaven by the power of God…Jesus resurrected and “ascended” into heaven by his OWN power…so why is it so hard to believe that our Lord raised his beloved mother and "assumed " her into heaven…even Orthodox christians believe that…just more Protestant protesting against the Catholic church…besides they don’t believe in her perpetual virginity neither…and apart from Christmas and Easter she doesn’t get a mention…although I think some Anglicans do venerate our Blessed Mother…
 
Lee1 said:
Why doesn’t God just tell us repeatedly one generation after another exactly how things are? Everyone says freewill would be compromised, ok. Then someone like say St Pio pops up in history, what happened to his freewill? And many other saints also, similarly they were also used by God to do His will in various ways. So by that I’d think that the reason why we aren’t all given in depth information to prevent ambiguity isn’t about compromising our freewill. And I have no idea why either. Which is of course cue for yet more guesswork, and on a different thread.
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I need to retract part of what I’ve said here. Thinking on this I’ve remembered that many people prior to becoming saints, actually give up their own freewill and invite God to use them as He will. God therefore hasn’t compromised the concept of freewill at all in those instances. An important point I think. Apologies.
 
I will just say this once because it bothers me that they don’t see it.
What does it say about Protestantism when they doubt a righteous woman (Virgin Mary) should be venerated yet they have no problem when an immoral woman who is wed against the natural law and God’s own law is “bishopesse” of the Lutheran “church”? And some secular leader (queen ir king) is leader (bishop? bishopesse?) of the Anglican “church”.
These Protestant leaders are truly role models to look up to. I am certain “they will go to Heaven” and that “we can pray to them”. Yes, God will “doubt Himself” in choosing His own chosen Mother and pick any other “charismatic” worshipper as His “new chosen people” just because they said they only folliw Him and do not care about any other rest of people around Him (provided they are Protestants).
God chose her as His mother. We just observe this fact. We did not invent it or make it happen.
 
I think the tradition piece is so important. Certain ideas (like this one) trace right back to right after Mary’s time and are likely based on eyewitnesses. I think when you combine that with her being chosen to be the Mother of God and therefore needing to be “immaculate”, it’s pretty obvious the Catholic idea of her is right. On top of it, sightings such as Fatima and Guadalupe provide further evidence that tradition is accurate.
 
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It helps to be calm and tactful when one explains that to a Protestant.
 
FranciscoN2001 said:
One of the biggest arguments between Catholics and Non-Catholics is over Mary. Catholic tradition says Mary ascended into Heaven, but Protestants argue there is no Biblical or historical proof for this and that they pray that Mary is in Heaven.
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I think you would be hard-pressed to find any Protestant that would assert that Mary is not in heaven awaiting the resurrection with all the saints of God. If there are, they would be a crackpot few well in the minority. The difference between Protestants and Catholics with regard to Mariology is that Protestants feel that at least some of the Marian dogmas go well beyond what the Scriptures say about her, and that some of the veneration and practices of Marian devotion exceed what is proper for any created being or are contradicted by scripture. That is really the crux of the issue.
 
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They think us Catholics read the scriptures less and don’t understand the scriptures as much as other Christians. We actually understand the scriptures more than them because we read it for more than just words and understand the person and nature of Jesus Christ. The nature of Jesus Christ indicates he wouldn’t let his mother, Mary, go to Hell. Jesus was more than just a bunch of words he was a man in the flesh that felt the same emotional and physical pain as the rest of us. Why do you think Jesus says “Why have you forsaken me?” while on the cross? In his human life, even Christ himself could go through so much pain that he would worry about being ignored by his Father. Us Catholics can actually interpret the scriptures for more than just words and base our traditions off the nature of Jesus. If I am wrong please correct me
 
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The assumption of Mary into heaven, body and soul, is defined dogma. This is part of the papal pronouncement; it’s pretty clear:
  1. For which reason, after we have poured forth prayers of supplication again and again to God, and have invoked the light of the Spirit of Truth, for the glory of Almighty God who has lavished his special affection upon the Virgin Mary, for the honor of her Son, the immortal King of the Ages and the Victor over sin and death, for the increase of the glory of that same august Mother, and for the joy and exultation of the entire Church; by the authority of our Lord Jesus Christ, of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul, and by our own authority, we pronounce, declare, and define it to be a divinely revealed dogma: that the Immaculate Mother of God, the ever Virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory.
  2. Hence if anyone, which God forbid, should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined, let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith.
  3. In order that this, our definition of the bodily Assumption of the Virgin Mary into heaven may be brought to the attention of the universal Church, we desire that this, our Apostolic Letter, should stand for perpetual remembrance, commanding that written copies of it, or even printed copies, signed by the hand of any public notary and bearing the seal of a person constituted in ecclesiastical dignity, should be accorded by all men the same reception they would give to this present letter, were it tendered or shown.
  4. It is forbidden to any man to change this, our declaration, pronouncement, and definition or, by rash attempt, to oppose and counter it. If any man should presume to make such an attempt, let him know that he will incur the wrath of Almighty God and of the Blessed Apostles Peter and Paul.
  5. Given at Rome, at St. Peter’s, in the year of the great Jubilee, 1950, on the first day of the month of November, on the Feast of All Saints, in the twelfth year of our pontificate.
PIUS XII
 
It would be good to explain such actions. I did a word search for the word “hell” in the Syllabus of Errors (two different sites/versions) and found none. I searched for possible other words to address the same matter, found none.

To “suggest” that hell is empty is not a heresy, to my knowledge.

To teach that hell is empty is not teaching in union with the Church.

To hope, and to pray that hell may be empty, and that all men may be saved is very much in the heart and teachings of the Church. From the universal Catechism:

1821 We can therefore hope in the glory of heaven promised by God to those who love him and do his will.<Cf. Rom 8:28-30; Mt 7:21> In every circumstance, each one of us should hope, with the grace of God, to persevere “to the end”<Mt 10:22; cf. Council of Trent DS 1541> and to obtain the joy of heaven, as God’s eternal reward for the good works accomplished with the grace of Christ. In hope, the Church prays for “all men to be saved.”<1 Tim 2:4> She longs to be united with Christ, her Bridegroom, in the glory of heaven:
Hope, O my soul, hope. You know neither the day nor the hour. Watch carefully, for everything passes quickly, even though your impatience makes doubtful what is certain, and turns a very short time into a long one. Dream that the more you struggle, the more you prove the love that you bear your God, and the more you will rejoice one day with your Beloved, in a happiness and rapture that can never end.<St. Teresa of Avila, Excl. 15:3>
 
I think the hidden post is a case of a situation we’ve seen before, where a poster is new (they just joined last night), very likely got flagged for other posts they made (appeared to be an “agenda poster”), and the flagging of those posts caused all their posts to be automatically hidden because the poster is brand new.

We had a new poster last week where the same thing happened - he made some posts that were okay and some posts that were troll-like, which were flagged, so all his posts were hidden.

I note that both of the users in question were quickly banned by the moderators.
 
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Well Hell isn’t meant to be empty. Where do you think people such as Cain or Caiaphas went? Although… God’s love and mercy can only be decided by God and not man
 
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