The Holy Grail

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Hisalone

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Everyone who is of the assumption that the new convenant is something that we asw Christians own has been under a false allusion. The new covenaant is the cup that Jesus used in the Last Supper. This cup which is called the Holy Grail has been missing since the time of Jesus thus we do not have a new covenant but must live under the Old.

According to Christian mythology, the Holy Grail was the dish, plate, or cup used by Jesus at the Last Supper, said to possess miraculous powers. The connection of Joseph of Arimathea with the Grail legend dates from Robert de Boron’s Joseph d’Arimathie (late 12th century) in which Joseph receives the Grail from an apparition of Jesus and sends it with his followers to Great Britain; building upon this theme, later writers recounted how Joseph used the Grail to catch Christ’s blood while interring him and that in Britain he founded a line of guardians to keep it safe. The quest for the Holy Grail makes up an important segment of the Arthurian cycle, appearing first in works by Chrétien de Troyes.[1] The legend may combine Christian lore with a Celtic myth of a cauldron endowed with special powers.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_Grail
 
For thowse wanting scriptural reference:

International Standard Version (©2008)
He did the same with the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant sealed by my blood, which is being poured out for you.
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When supper was over, he did the same with the cup. He said, “This cup that is poured out for you is the new promise made with my blood.”

King James Bible
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

American King James Version
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

American Standard Version
And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Bible in Basic English
And in the same way, after the meal, he took the cup, saying, This cup is the new testament, made with my blood which is given for you.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In like manner the chalice also, after he had supped, saying: This is the chalice, the new testament in my blood, which shall be shed for you.

Darby Bible Translation
In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

English Revised Version
And the cup in like manner after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood, even that which is poured out for you.

Webster’s Bible Translation
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.

Weymouth New Testament
He gave them the cup in like manner, when the meal was over. “This cup,” He said, "is the new Covenant ratified by my blood which is to be poured out on your behalf.

World English Bible
Likewise, he took the cup after supper, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

Young’s Literal Translation
In like manner, also, the cup after the supping, saying, 'This cup is the new covenant in my blood, that for you is being poured forth.

Geneva Study Bible
Likewise also the cup after supper, saying, This {g} cup is {h} the new testament in my blood, which is shed for you.
 
Again the cup is the new testament or new covenant. We do not have the new covenant unless we have the cup.

International Standard Version (©2008)
He did the same with the cup after the supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. As often as you drink from it, keep doing this in memory of me.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
In the same way He took the cup also after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in My blood; do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
When supper was over, he did the same with the cup. He said, “This cup is the new promise made with my blood. Every time you drink from it, do it to remember me.”

King James Bible
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

American King James Version
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do you, as oft as you drink it, in remembrance of me.

American Standard Version
In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye drink it , in remembrance of me.

Bible in Basic English
In the same way, with the cup, after the meal, he said, This cup is the new testament in my blood: do this, whenever you take it, in memory of me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
In like manner also the chalice, after he had supped, saying: This chalice is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as you shall drink, for the commemoration of me.

Darby Bible Translation
In like manner also the cup, after having supped, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as often as ye shall drink it, in remembrance of me.

English Revised Version
In like manner also the cup, after supper, saying, This cup is the new covenant in my blood: this do, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Webster’s Bible Translation
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as often as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Weymouth New Testament
In the same way, when the meal was over, He also took the cup. “This cup,” He said, “is the new Covenant of which my blood is the pledge. Do this, every time that you drink it, in memory of me.”

World English Bible
In the same way he also took the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink, in memory of me.”

Young’s Literal Translation
In like manner also the cup after the supping, saying, ‘This cup is the new covenant in my blood; this do ye, as often as ye may drink it – to the remembrance of me;’

Geneva Study Bible
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, This cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.
 
OK…

So the new covenant was the object… the “cup” itself…

What was the first covenant?

I don’t think I need to go into detail, because to even fathom that the covenant itself was in the “object” is ludicrous.

We know the “sign” of the old covenant was circumcision… Do I need to go down that road and say what you are implying the literal object of the old covenant would have been?

Jesus was saying that the new covenant was His blood.

Nice try though 😉
 
AshleyBelle said:
OK…

So the new covenant was the object… the “cup” itself…

What was the first covenant?

I don’t think I need to go into detail, because to even fathom that the covenant itself was in the “object” is ludicrous.

We know the “sign” of the old covenant was circumcision… Do I need to go down that road and say what you are implying the literal object of the old covenant would have been?

Jesus was saying that the new covenant was His blood.

Nice try though 😉
Click to expand...
Without the grail we have no New Covenant.
What Jesus says here is that the Grail is the New Covenant.
 
Hisalone said:
Without the grail we have no New Covenant.
What Jesus says here is that the Grail is the New Covenant.
Click to expand...
Do you even understand the meaning of the word ‘covenant’? A covenant is not a physical object, it is a verbal or written agreement.

It may or may not be evidenced by something physical such as Abraham’s sign of circumcision, but the physical sign doesn’t constitute the covenant and the absence of the physical sign doesn’t necessarily void the covenant.

If I sign a contract with you and the piece of paper we signed accidentally gets thrown away in the trash so that there’s no EVIDENCE of the agreement, that makes it no less morally binding on us.

Of course in a human legal system that demands proof of such things, it may not be enforceable, but a covenant with God is irrevocable and unvoidable - and thus is binding even in the absence of any physical sign.

HE knows what He has promised and what we’ve promised and He holds to it and holds US to it whether or not any visible sign exists.
 
How can you not believe Jesus’ literal word that the grail is the new covenant?
 
Are you saying that if you know of other Christian beliefs that are a rehash of older myths that you would not believe them?
How about Jesus’ words that say the grail is the new covenant?
 
Just a show inconsistency.
v 20 is symbol v19 is literal.

If you say one is leteral both would be literal if you say one is symbol the other would be synbol
 
International Standard Version (©2008)
Then he took a loaf of bread, gave thanks, broke it in pieces, and handed it to them, saying, “This is my body, which is given for you. Keep on doing this in memory of me.”
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

GOD’S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Then Jesus took bread and spoke a prayer of thanksgiving. He broke the bread, gave it to them, and said, “This is my body, which is given up for you. Do this to remember me.”

King James Bible
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

American King James Version
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and broke it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

American Standard Version
And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Bible in Basic English
And he took bread and, having given praise, he gave it to them when it had been broken, saying, This is my body, which is given for you: do this in memory of me.

Douay-Rheims Bible
And taking bread, he gave thanks, and brake; and gave to them, saying: This is my body, which is given for you. Do this for a commemoration of me.

Darby Bible Translation
And having taken a loaf, when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave it to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

English Revised Version
And he took bread, and when he had given thanks, he brake it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Webster’s Bible Translation
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and broke it, and gave to them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

Weymouth New Testament
Then, taking a Passover biscuit, He gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to them, saying, “This is my body which is being given on your behalf: this do in remembrance of me.”

World English Bible
He took bread, and when he had given thanks, he broke it, and gave to them, saying, “This is my body which is given for you. Do this in memory of me.”

Young’s Literal Translation
And having taken bread, having given thanks, he brake and gave to them, saying, ‘This is my body, that for you is being given, this do ye – to remembrance of me.’

Geneva Study Bible
{5} And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.
 
Hisalone said:
Are you saying that if you know of other Christian beliefs that are a rehash of older myths that you would not believe them?
How about Jesus’ words that say the grail is the new covenant?
Click to expand...
Jesus never mentions anything called a ‘grail’. That word, and the idea of the Grail, do not exist in Christian scripture. The Grail is a visible symbol of the divine power of Blessing, whether it’s the old Celtic Cauldrons, the medieval sacramental cup floating in the air, or even the Stone fallen from Lucifer’s crown, or the Philosopher’s Stone. The idea of a materialized presence that cures ill, gives sustenance and grants immortality is a strongly Pagan one, and it doesn’t really appear in a description of the cup of the Last Supper.

So, we can simply dismiss the idea that Jesus saw the cup as the Holy Grail. There is no reason at all to think so.

Though the Grail became a potent symbol 1000 years after Jesus, it plays no part in Christian orthodoxy, to this day. I doubt that the Vatican has ever referred to it officially at all. It is Pagan lore that became a folk-motif which merged with Christian tales and romantic medieval ideals. The Grail plays no part in ‘Christianity’ in any formal sense.
Ian
 
IanCorrigan said:
… It is Pagan lore that became a folk-motif which merged with Christian tales and romantic medieval ideals.
Click to expand...
But,… but … I saw Raiders of the Lost Arc :confused:

Are you telling me that wasn’t real :confused:

:bighanky: :bighanky: :bighanky:
 
If the container had been of any import it would’ve been preserved most carefully - and today would be a world-famous relic like the True Cross, the Shroud of Turin, the Spear of Longinus etc etc.
 
You both have missed the point.

In verse 19 you claim a literal meaning yet in verse20 you claim a symnbolic meaning.
 
I’m not saying they’re real either - I’m using them as examples of how even supposed relics of Our Lord are venerated.

And if even spurious relics of Christ are so treasured and so openly displayed for so many centuries, it stands to reason that if anyone had anything that could’ve even possibly been the cup used at the last Supper it would’ve been given a place of honour somewhere as a precious relic, no?
 
Hisalone said:
You both have missed the point.

In verse 19 you claim a literal meaning yet in verse20 you claim a symnbolic meaning.
Click to expand...
Actually…we take the flesh and blood both literally.

I understand the purpose of your thread now, and at the risk of sacrificing and tossing all english grammatical skills out the window, I have to say :

“IT AIN’T WORKIN SISTER” (brother?)
:knight2:
 
This thread is not about relics it is not about the holy grail it is about an inconsistant position which hold that Jesus was literal in v 19 and symbolic in v20
It shows and proves the fallacy of the Catholic position.
 
You’re kidding right? You are going to miss-interpret one line and throw the whole rest of the New Testament out?!?!? Read the whole New Testament. Pay special attention to the part where Jesus builds His Church upon Peter and promises the gates of the neverworld will not prevail against it. The Church as a whole is void from teaching error. With over 2000 years under our belt and the largest organization ever in the world, I very seriously doubt we are all misled. God Bless!
 
New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And when He had taken some bread and given thanks, He broke it and gave it to them, saying, “This is My body which is given for you; do this in remembrance of Me.”

Jesus takes the bread and holds it and calls the bread His body -----Catholics believe it literally.

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
And in the same way He took the cup after they had eaten, saying, "This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood.

Jesus picks up the cup and says this cup is the new covenant. ------Catholics believe it symbolically.

INCONSISTANT interpretation.
 
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