The Holy Spirit a "she" - Gender Inclusive Language or political agenda during mass?

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Did you read the whole article?
The title was enough for me. If I am not allowed to be God’s child simply because He created me female - that is, if being female is a mistake or even a sin on my part (even though I had no say in the matter), and I need to become male in order to become God’s child, then why should I even be a believer? 🤷
 
Bear in mind that God is both male and female and neither male nor female. Such is the problem of using language to communicate ideas of the transcendent…

…language is most likely the worst methodology to use to transmit metaphysical notions…and yet, how else do we hope to communicate outside of personal prayer…gender specific language is perhaps unfortunate, but the alternative, such as he/she/it, is absurd and untenable…I hardly think that the average Catholic, reciting the Nicene Creed, believes that the phrase ‘for us men and our salvation’ refers only to the soteriological benefit of grown males only…
 
The title was enough for me. If I am not allowed to be God’s child simply because He created me female - that is, if being female is a mistake or even a sin on my part (even though I had no say in the matter), and I need to become male in order to become God’s child, then why should I even be a believer? 🤷
Ahhh - a knee jerk reaction to a provocative title. Do me a favor - read it through and then let’s discuss.
 
Ahhh - a knee jerk reaction to a provocative title. Do me a favor - read it through and then let’s discuss.
I’ve already read The Regiment of Women and I don’t need any more of the same; thanks anyway! 🙂
 
Did you read the whole article?
Yes, I did. I can appreciate what he’s trying to get at, but it has an unquestionable slant to it. For instance, I think his argument that language can’t change that fast is false. It can. It does. A better argument is that it should not; that is, that the traditional inclusive use of “he” should be preserved, if only because it has an irreplaceable use in liturgy. (It should be preserved because it lends greater elegance to the language, too, but that is less important.)

Also, he writes about males being the ones who historically “accepted” danger. I think that is a bit backwards, too. Men, historically, had to seek out danger. Manhood wasn’t a matter of taking what came at you. Womanhood, OTOH, did put the person in an accepting position. A woman, whether she liked it or not, would risk her life to bear children, would shed blood without having any control over when or where that happened, would be in a position of self-sacrifice in which another could not take her place. The honor she got for doing these things was also going to be of an entirely different nature. There weren’t going to be songs sung by the masses about how you endured your difficult labor, or worked in the fields up until the day you delivered, or any of that. The rites of passage for men and women reflected these differences.

As I said, I think he also gets the “sons and daughters” thing backwards, to the point of doing exactly what he is trying to argue “non-inclusive” language does not do, which is to denigrate the feminine. Again, it is Mary, referred to by the angel as God’s “highly favored daughter”, who is Queen of Apostles and the Help of Priests. I like that he points the whole thing back to the mysteries of marriage, the mysteries of the Church as Bride and Christ as Bridegroom, but I think it is a mistake to make this into some implication that women are supposed to become men in order to be holy. That is not what is meant by referring to all of us as “brethren.”

I think I agree with what I think he meant to say. What he actually said, though, has some real difficulties with it.
 
Yes, I did. I can appreciate what he’s trying to get at, but it has an unquestionable slant to it. For instance, I think his argument that language can’t change that fast is false. It can. It does. A better argument is that it should not; that is, that the traditional inclusive use of “he” should be preserved, if only because it has an irreplaceable use in liturgy. (It should be preserved because it lends greater elegance to the language, too, but that is less important.)

Also, he writes about males being the ones who historically “accepted” danger. I think that is a bit backwards, too. Men, historically, had to seek out danger. Manhood wasn’t a matter of taking what came at you. Womanhood, OTOH, did put the person in an accepting position. A woman, whether she liked it or not, would risk her life to bear children, would shed blood without having any control over when or where that happened, would be in a position of self-sacrifice in which another could not take her place. The honor she got for doing these things was also going to be of an entirely different nature. There weren’t going to be songs sung by the masses about how you endured your difficult labor, or worked in the fields up until the day you delivered, or any of that. The rites of passage for men and women reflected these differences.

As I said, I think he also gets the “sons and daughters” thing backwards, to the point of doing exactly what he is trying to argue “non-inclusive” language does not do, which is to denigrate the feminine. Again, it is Mary, referred to by the angel as God’s “highly favored daughter”, who is Queen of Apostles and the Help of Priests. I like that he points the whole thing back to the mysteries of marriage, the mysteries of the Church as Bride and Christ as Bridegroom, but I think it is a mistake to make this into some implication that women are supposed to become men in order to be holy. That is not what is meant by referring to all of us as “brethren.”

I think I agree with what I think he meant to say. What he actually said, though, has some real difficulties with it.
Good point - I wonder what the Latin renders. Sometimes language differences lose their meaning.

I got from the article that the physical sex is not important but the image is. The image of both men and women is the same - that is of the Son. We are trying to make a concession where none is really necessary.

From the article…

He conforms both men and women to his own image as Son, thereby making them all God’s sons (not daughters). God has no only begotten daughter, for reasons we shall see; he therefore has no daughters begotten of the Spirit, only sons. There is only one pattern for both men and women to be conformed to, that of the Son. In the Son, Christians become deiform, apotheosized, and achieve an intimacy and union with the Godhead that is beyond the categories of natural reason, which seeks to reduce this relationship to that of a metaphor. Obviously we are not yet what we shall be; that remains to be revealed. Therefore in our immaturity we are the children of God, growing into the image of the Son, so that we may become his sons. Explaining the phrases in the Scripture should be an opportunity for delineating an extraordinarily important and neglected or misunderstood part of the Christian message. Instead “inclusive language” blurs over an important point by conforming it to feminist usage, which is not theologically applicable in this instance, whatever justification it might have in other texts.
 
If the Holy Spirit is a ‘She’, Christ is the offspring of a lesbian union.
Well, as at any time you have a concern, you should at least mention it to your priest. While it may be akward as you are a new convert(I am too 👍 ), I’m sure he wants to know what his congregation thinks. Changing the gender of God in the liturgy is a serious abuse, not only because it is making unauthorized changes to the liturgy but also because it is heresy. If you know other people who were offended/concerned by it, get them to go with you and talk to the priest together, or perhaps email the parish office/priest’s email?
Heresy??? Where in the Roman Catholic Church is there a dogma, or doctrine that specifies that God is a He OR a She, other than in Christ’s giving us the Our Father?? Isn’t the use of “he” more of a societal practice than a statement of belief?
 
Christ Himself used the masculine pronoun ‘heatou’ (himself, his own) to denote the Holy Spirit.
John 16:13
But when he comes, the Spirit of truth, he will guide you to all truth. He will not speak on his own
Drafdog, although I haven’t read Sirach, Ecclesiates, Wisdom of Solomon, etc. I agree with everything they say. 👍 But in my small wisdom, I have come to the conclusion myself that a Spirit, God, can be neither male nor female. Such is the weakness of using language to communicate the Truth of God.🙂
 
You all have giving much to prayerfully consider. The use of “she” during the homily just sounded jarring to my ears, even though I have had the academic discussion about the use of the femenine to denote the Spirit in Hebrew. I also know that God is transcendent so far beyond us as the heavens are above the earth. But is referring to the Spirit as “she” in a homily without any further explanation really helpful? Some people behind me, my husband said, seemed to audibly express discomfort as well. It just seems as if it is part of the whole getting away from any masculine reference in the mass, and at a time when we need more men to get excited about God (of course, everyone should be excited about God but the numbers of men are declining).

I just thought about if I had invited my very protestant family to mass (and I have such a desire for them to be united fully to the Church!!!) they might have walked out with the impression that the Catholic Church had jumped off of the deep end. (And there are so many other perceived hurdles that many protestants must bound on the journey home) Some explanation of the reason for the use of the feminine would have lessened my own discomfort.
What I am learning about the Church is that I will never know all there is to know. Also, it seems that whereas I thought the Priest much “teach” me what I need to know, I must take self responsibility for what I do, or do not know about Her. By posting here and asking questions, you are taking a step toward more knowledge of our Faith.🙂
 
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