The Holy Spirit a "she" - Gender Inclusive Language or political agenda during mass?

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The priest has done nothing but return to the Hebrew scriptural reference to the Spirit of Wisdom. Unless you are advocating that we intentionally inaccurately translate the scriptures, you must allow for the use if the feminine in reference to the Spirit of God.
Please go to your bible and read Sirach, Ecclesiates, Wisdom of Solomon, etc. and see that the Holy Spirit is repeatedly referred to as Lady Wisdom.
Bear in mind that God is both male and female and neither male nor female. Such is the problem of using language to communicate ideas of the transcendent.

Matthew
Feminist/liberal nonsense.

While God is niether male or female, to take it upon oneself to change how He is referred to is absolute nonsense. I don’t care who you are, you don’t have the right to change scripture or how they refer to God. Far as I’m concerned, that’s heresy.
 
If you are really interested, you should read Genesis 1:26-28. God is clearly both male and female since humanity is created specifically in God’s image as male and female. If we perceive God as Father and Jesus as Son, then the remaining member of the Trinity embodies the feminine aspect of God, if only by default if not as expressed in the wisdom literature.

Matthew
Again, this is separating God into modes. You are looking at God AS Father, Jesus AS Son, and Holy Spirit AS female. Can’t be. God IS Father, God IS Son, and God IS Holy Spirit. If the Father is masculine, so is the Son, as is the Holy Spirit. One God.

I would suggest again Peter Kreeft’s talks I referenced earlier. Male and female are the biological results of masculine and feminine spirits. How we are created in His image is in His giving. And in turn we receive Him. Masculine is to give and feminine is to receive. That is why, as Kreeft says, we are all feminine in our response to God. (Having feminine attributes in our spirit by no means makes us all female though.)

Wisdom is a gift of the Holy Spirit, not The Spirit, Himself
 
We were better off with the poets and storytellers of Israel before we let the Greek philosophers with their categories and modes and like nonsense into the fold.
But since you insist on Greek philosophy, then let’s do it right. The philosophers tell us that an attribute cannot be created in a creature without first existing as an attribute of the creator. So you and I don’t get to be male or female unless the creator, God, has that attribute. Greek philosophy.
Reread Genesis. I didn’t change or misrepresent a word. God is both male and female.

Matthew
 
The philosophers tell us that an attribute cannot be created in a creature without first existing as an attribute of the creator.
So God is a plant? A worm? A bird?

I agree with you on many levels, except with your conclusion. “His image” is a very hard thought to ponder. I bow to those smarter than I am. JP2, Kreeft, and so on.
 
So God is a plant? A worm? A bird?

I agree with you on many levels, except with your conclusion. “His image” is a very hard thought to ponder. I bow to those smarter than I am. JP2, Kreeft, and so on.
God did not create these other things as icons of Himself - He did, however, create women as icons of Himself, though, which means that He has a feminine (receptive) aspect as well as a masculine (giving) aspect.
 
God did not create these other things as icons of Himself - He did, however, create women as icons of Himself, though, which means that He has a feminine (receptive) aspect as well as a masculine (giving) aspect.
I cant see how one flows from the other . However back to the original post. it is improper for the Priest to refer to the Holy Sprit in the feminine. as has been pointed out in this thread the Church clearly states one should not do this. This seems to be the current fad among those desperate to be “inclusive”. It not only elicits itself in silly comments like this Priest said but also in some priests changing the blessing to be gender neutral! I believe it goes something like this:

"In the name of the creator, the redeemer and teacher amen.

If you hear a Priest utter that i say head for the door!
 
The Holy spirit is neither male nor female. So you can call it ‘it’ .

The Holy Spirit is just as important as God and Jesus. Whether we call it male or female and making a debate is splitting hairs!!!
:
Actually, NOOOOOOOO. You can’t call the Holy Spirit “it” since Jesus Himself referenced teh Holy Spirit as He and Him. Please do n’t make up rules as you go along, huh?
 
The Holy spirit is neither male nor female. So you can call it ‘it’ .

The Holy Spirit is just as important as God and Jesus. Whether we call it male or female and making a debate is splitting hairs!!!
:
Actually the Holy Sprit IS God and Jesus
 

The use of feminist language and imagery in Christian worship is especially dangerous because it places a further obstacle in the way of an appreciation of the theological meaning of gender. Such appreciation is necessary if we are to begin to overcome the feminization of Western Christianity. Masculinity plays a central role in Judaism and Christianity, and men can be shown that Christianity does not want to convert them into pseudo-women, but help to fulfill the deepest meaning of masculinity. In Christ men should be able to see what it is to be a man. Ecce homo, et ecce vir. The powerful currents of masculinity, especially the admiration that verges on eros that men feel for the exemplars of masculinity, the athlete and the soldier, can be directed away from crime, violence, and quasi-fascist nationalism into a relationship with God in Christ. The Church will benefit, men will benefit, and society as a whole will benefit. A key to beginning this work is to use the language of Scripture rather than a language constructed by feminists, because in the religion of the Word made flesh words can be both creative and destructive.

more.from God has no daughters
 
Maybe I missed it earlier, but has no one brought up that Jesus was ‘conceived by’ the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary?

That the ‘power of the Most High’ (which was the Spirit) ‘overshadowed’ Mary?

Overwhelmingly, what we see here is that the Trinity (three Divine Persons in One God) is ‘masculine’ in so far as we humans can grasp ‘masculine’ and ‘feminine’. Father, not mother. Son, not daughter. Spouse of a woman, not spouse of a man.

I’m a woman myself, and I am not threatened at all by the fact that God is Father, Christ is Son, and the Spirit is ‘Spouse’ of the Virgin Mary. I don’t think that because God isn’t ‘mother’, Christ ‘daughter’ and Spirit ‘spouse’ of say, St. Joseph that I am not as ‘represented’ or as much a child of God as a man is.
 

The use of feminist language and imagery in Christian worship is especially dangerous because it places a further obstacle in the way of an appreciation of the theological meaning of gender. Such appreciation is necessary if we are to begin to overcome the feminization of Western Christianity. Masculinity plays a central role in Judaism and Christianity, and men can be shown that Christianity does not want to convert them into pseudo-women, but help to fulfill the deepest meaning of masculinity. In Christ men should be able to see what it is to be a man. Ecce homo, et ecce vir. The powerful currents of masculinity, especially the admiration that verges on eros that men feel for the exemplars of masculinity, the athlete and the soldier, can be directed away from crime, violence, and quasi-fascist nationalism into a relationship with God in Christ. The Church will benefit, men will benefit, and society as a whole will benefit. A key to beginning this work is to use the language of Scripture rather than a language constructed by feminists, because in the religion of the Word made flesh words can be both creative and destructive.

more.from God has no daughters
This was a very well thought out article. Thank you for the link. 🙂
 
The Holy Spirit is God, but he is not God the Father, and he is not Jesus - he is the Third Person of the Trinity. 🙂
Three persons BUT only one God. They are all seperate and all one in the same.
 
If you are really interested, you should read Genesis 1:26-28. God is clearly both male and female since humanity is created specifically in God’s image as male and female. If we perceive God as Father and Jesus as Son, then the remaining member of the Trinity embodies the feminine aspect of God, if only by default if not as expressed in the wisdom literature.

Matthew
😃 It’s almost as if I wrote the above post!!! 😃

A few years back, I was having some kind of spiritual “identity crisis.” It’s a little hard to describe, but I was feeling that I needed to find my “identity” “in God.” I knew that Genesis said that I’m made in the image and likeness of God and there’s God the FATHER, God the SON… well, that left only one other possibility. So, for me, the Holy Spirit is the feminine aspect of God. God could not have created woman in the image of God if there is no feminine aspect of God.

I think the whole problem could be solved to everyone’s satisfaction if we just created a brand new pronoun for God alone! 😛

The argument that the Holy Spirit must be “he” because Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit and born of the Virgin Mary, is not a valid argument, because Jesus is referred to as the Bridegroom - does that mean that half the human race (men) have a gay relationship with Jesus? Of course not!

Any argument against jmcrae’s position that:
God did not create these other things as icons of Himself - He did, however, create women as icons of Himself, though, which means that He has a feminine (receptive) aspect, as well as a masculine (giving) aspect.
would also not be valid because God is indeed receptive. God receives our love and wants our love. (Read the Diary of St. Faustina.)

And the argument in I forget whose post above that Scripture refers to God as Father and not Mother is also not a valid argument - Has this passage been forgotten: “Can a mother forget her infant, be without tenderness for the child of her womb? Even if she forgets, I will never forget you.” (Isaiah 49:15) Here, it is God Himself through the words of His prophet comparing Himself to a Mother.

For myself, I need to think of the Holy Spirit as “She,” otherwise I don’t understand where to look in God to find the image in which I am created.
 

The use of feminist language and imagery in Christian worship is especially dangerous because it places a further obstacle in the way of an appreciation of the theological meaning of gender. Such appreciation is necessary if we are to begin to overcome the feminization of Western Christianity. Masculinity plays a central role in Judaism and Christianity, and men can be shown that Christianity does not want to convert them into pseudo-women, but help to fulfill the deepest meaning of masculinity. In Christ men should be able to see what it is to be a man. Ecce homo, et ecce vir. The powerful currents of masculinity, especially the admiration that verges on eros that men feel for the exemplars of masculinity, the athlete and the soldier, can be directed away from crime, violence, and quasi-fascist nationalism into a relationship with God in Christ. The Church will benefit, men will benefit, and society as a whole will benefit. A key to beginning this work is to use the language of Scripture rather than a language constructed by feminists, because in the religion of the Word made flesh words can be both creative and destructive.

more.from God has no daughters
I read that and thought, “Huh?”

Jesus came as a man, yet what did he do? He washed feet…in other words, he did what the holy *women *would have done without thinking twice about it. He taught an authority that serves. He did not hold himself apart from women, but conversed freely with the woman at the well in a way that was unthinkable in his time. She became his ambassador, straight away. She, who was both feminine and notorious sinner, spread the news of Jesus Christ and the love of God. That totally turned everything upside down that the Jews understood about not just men and women, but about saints and sinners. Look, too, at his relationship with his Mother. It was not a separation that distanced him from her influence. Even after the Finding in the Temple, he was not above obedience to his parents. His was true masculinity. His mother’s was true femininity. She was no wilting violet, that one. Her Fiat! could have gotten her stoned. What God asked, she did, and without delay or equivocation, nor after consultation with humans. What she needed, she asked of God; then she trusted. She was a brave woman. Totally brave, totally docile to the Holy Spirit, and rightly called the Model of Christians. All Christians, not just the ladies!

The athlete and the soldier are not the exemplars of masculinity. The priest is, and the apostle. And who is Queen of Apostles and Priests? His Mother; that is who Christ set over them as their guide to conformation with His masculinity. That is why I think that Jesus chose only men as priests. It is because of the particular way in which masculinity and masculine authority are in need of transformation by the Gospel.

I think the use of the emphatically female pronoun is to be avoided because it is reactionary. It makes the same mistake too many people make in interpreting the masculine pronoun as emphatically male, and just points it the other way.

In God, the masculine and the feminine are perfectly reconciled. There is neither male nor female. Therefore, it is nonsense to say we are all made sons and none made daughters. That gets it exactly backwards. In Heaven, all are like the angels, who neither marry nor are given in marriage…male and female aren’t along the lines we who are fallen think they are. If you say “all are made sons”, you have to mean it in the same way that you mean when you use “he” to describe God. The Holy Spirit is not male, and neither will women who attain Heaven become men. Our Blessed Mother is still a woman!!

God, who has all, did not disdain poverty and need, for our sake. God, who is three Persons, does not need to submerge personality in order to dominate. That is not the way the authority of the Father or the obedience of the Son or the fellowship of the Holy Spirit work. Likewise, male and female are not intended to be at odds. We are made in the image and likeness of God…we, the Body of Christ are intended to be the knitting together of that image broken by original sin. Marriage is a foreshadowing of this. That is where we learn what God meant the male and female to be: not on the sports field or the battle field, but from our parents, who give all that love demands, for both children and spouse.

It is a huge mistake to try to re-make fallen men into fallen women, and think that accomplishes something. Our model should not be the opposite sex, but Christ, and his Mother.
 

The use of feminist language and imagery in Christian worship is especially dangerous because it places a further obstacle in the way of an appreciation of the theological meaning of gender. Such appreciation is necessary if we are to begin to overcome the feminization of Western Christianity. Masculinity plays a central role in Judaism and Christianity, and men can be shown that Christianity does not want to convert them into pseudo-women, but help to fulfill the deepest meaning of masculinity. In Christ men should be able to see what it is to be a man. Ecce homo, et ecce vir. The powerful currents of masculinity, especially the admiration that verges on eros that men feel for the exemplars of masculinity, the athlete and the soldier, can be directed away from crime, violence, and quasi-fascist nationalism into a relationship with God in Christ. The Church will benefit, men will benefit, and society as a whole will benefit. A key to beginning this work is to use the language of Scripture rather than a language constructed by feminists, because in the religion of the Word made flesh words can be both creative and destructive.

more.from God has no daughters
This makes me think of the heresy of the Gospel of Thomas when it says that women who believe in Jesus will be saved by being made men, the implication being that womanhood is evil.

The early Church banned that book and reaffirmed the value of womanhood by pointing out the perfections of Mary, Mother of God, and archetype of the Church. 🙂
 
All this talk about feminizing God brings on e thought to mind.

Some people seem that the correct approach is to change God conform to them, rather than try to change themselves to conform to God. Apparently they do this because they think it brings them closer to God.

Well, if you think that is true, try doing that to your spouse, your parents or your children. I do not think you will get very far. And I can only speculate about what their reaction to such treatment would be.
 
All this talk about feminizing God brings on e thought to mind.

Some people seem that the correct approach is to change God conform to them, rather than try to change themselves to conform to God. Apparently they do this because they think it brings them closer to God.
I don’t think anyone is trying to “feminize God”( although the way you say that makes it seem as though there were something the matter with being feminine, or that God looks down on womanhood as being in some way inferior).

Rather, people are finding that God already does have a feminine side (otherwise, how could He have created women in His image and likeness?) and that, for a fuller understanding of God, we need to understand this aspect of Him, as well, rather than divinizing the male - which would be just as bad as “feminizing” God.
 
I don’t think anyone is trying to “feminize God”( although the way you say that makes it seem as though there were something the matter with being feminine, or that God looks down on womanhood as being in some way inferior).
I acknowledge reading this. Beyond that, this does not dignify a response.
 
This makes me think of the heresy of the Gospel of Thomas when it says that women who believe in Jesus will be saved by being made men, the implication being that womanhood is evil.

The early Church banned that book and reaffirmed the value of womanhood by pointing out the perfections of Mary, Mother of God, and archetype of the Church. 🙂
Did you read the whole article?
 
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