The Homeless vs. Gay Marriage

[Michaeljc4]

As far as I can tell, a great many of the people here are Libertarians, and so don’t think the state should give money (tax dollars that they stole!) to this kind of thing at all. They should get private donations alone. And if that isn’t enough cash to do the job, the homeless can freeze while thinking warmly that they are blessed by God.

These funds are not from taxes, but from private donations given to the Archdiocese of Portland, ME, or to the Catholic Campaign for Human Development.

People of good will can differ on matters of public policy. For me, it is the vulnerable who are hurt at the end of the day. Blame the Church, blame the organizations, blame liberals, blame conservatives, we can blamestorm all day. In the end, it is the weak who suffer.

And for that, I blame all of us.

 

[hellopeople]

I have to admit, friends, stories like this make it very difficult for me to remain in the Catholic Church.

Homeless Shelter Loses Funding for Gay Marriage Stance in Maine

Last month, the Bishops in Washington, DC, ended their adoption program because of gay adoption. They ended spousal insurance coverage because of gay marriage. In Boulder, they removed a little girl from her Catholic school because of gay parents. We are all watching the horror of yet more sex abuse scandals rippling across Europe, in bothe Germany and Ireland. And now, in Maine, the most vulnerable are being denied charity because of gay marriage.

This truly feels like Lent. My heart is broken.

When the church does things like this (and the other things you mentioned) that seem to be completely contrary to Jesus’ teachings, something is wrong. Do you think Jesus would not help the poor because they were sinners? It is like these church officials have forgotten the gospels.

 

[hellopeople]

there are plenty of Catholics who support all manner of immorality, that is why we have an abuse crisis

Are you REALLY equating supporting gay marriage to priests molesting children? WOW.

 

[hellopeople]

Is it bad that a Catholic school refused to enroll a kindergartner because they knew that was a "guarantee’ to take the child as a student through the 8th grade, and at some point the child would be taught that her ‘parents’ were in an immoral relationship against Church teaching?

Is is bad that Catholic Charities in DC changes it’s benefits to have them be in compliance of the secular law as well as Church teaching?

Is it bad that the Church is trying to remain true to Catholic teaching, even though some ordained members are causing scandal?

Is it right that gay people are demanding that all social institutions change to accommodate them? Is it right that gay people are doing everything they can to force acceptance of their minority lifestyle?

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

 

[hellopeople]

The Church was founded by Jesus Christ.
He adhered to the Jewish moral code which expicitly (unlike the Greeks and Romans) forbade homosexual behavior. By extension, he could never have approved of even a civil codification of a practice that was morally reprehensible.
The prohibition against homosexual behavior is thus foundational to Catholic moral theology, from Jesus onward. It is not merely a cultural practice subject to changing societal views over time.

Did he REALLY adhere to the Jewish moral code though?

Luke 6
Lord of the Sabbath
1One Sabbath Jesus was going through the grainfields, and his disciples began to pick some heads of grain, rub them in their hands and eat the kernels. 2Some of the Pharisees asked, “Why are you doing what is unlawful on the Sabbath?”

3Jesus answered them, “Have you never read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4He entered the house of God, and taking the consecrated bread, he ate what is lawful only for priests to eat. And he also gave some to his companions.” 5Then Jesus said to them, “The Son of Man is Lord of the Sabbath.”

6On another Sabbath he went into the synagogue and was teaching, and a man was there whose right hand was shriveled. 7The Pharisees and the teachers of the law were looking for a reason to accuse Jesus, so they watched him closely to see if he would heal on the Sabbath. 8But Jesus knew what they were thinking and said to the man with the shriveled hand, “Get up and stand in front of everyone.” So he got up and stood there.

9Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you, which is lawful on the Sabbath: to do good or to do evil, to save life or to destroy it?”

10He looked around at them all, and then said to the man, “Stretch out your hand.” He did so, and his hand was completely restored. 11But they were furious and began to discuss with one another what they might do to Jesus.

 

[Newbie2]

When the church does things like this (and the other things you mentioned) that seem to be completely contrary to Jesus’ teachings, something is wrong. Do you think Jesus would not help the poor because they were sinners? It is like these church officials have forgotten the gospels.

Ah…Jesus also told sinners to go and sin no more.

 

[andyandely1997]

When the church does things like this (and the other things you mentioned) that seem to be completely contrary to Jesus’ teachings, something is wrong. Do you think Jesus would not help the poor because they were sinners? It is like these church officials have forgotten the gospels.

Christ would help the poor by spreading the gospel along with charity. Government social justice is all about money with no gospel. This is why we can throw all the money we want at these government social justice programs & nothing is getting better. Actually, it is getting worse because our culture has kicked Christ our of the public square.

 

[PaulinVA]

Quote:

Originally Posted by PaulinVA forums.catholic-questions.org/images/buttons_khaki/viewpost.gif
*Is it bad that a Catholic school refused to enroll a kindergartner because they knew that was a "guarantee’ to take the child as a student through the 8th grade, and at some point the child would be taught that her ‘parents’ were in an immoral relationship against Church teaching?

Is is bad that Catholic Charities in DC changes it’s benefits to have them be in compliance of the secular law as well as Church teaching?

Is it bad that the Church is trying to remain true to Catholic teaching, even though some ordained members are causing scandal?

Is it right that gay people are demanding that all social institutions change to accommodate them? Is it right that gay people are doing everything they can to force acceptance of their minority lifestyle?*

Yes, yes, yes, yes, and yes.

Well, nice to know we disagree.

 

[jjdrury81]

Interesting. So you would advocate civil law based on what moral compass? None? The changing whims of the people? What’s fashionable? Whatever each person decides for himself/herself?

For a Catholic, the teachings of our Lord should trump everything…including support of whatever the popular sociopolitical fads might be.

The teachings of our Lord should certainly direct our own moral compass and act as a guide in civil law. But it should not dictate civil law. If this were the case, we would be no better as a country than Iran.

Gay marriage should be federally mandated in the civil world in order to extend those legal and social benefits that opposite sex married couples enjoy to gay couples. This would have absolutely no impact on the lives of Christians or Catholic married couples, children, etc.

 

[Convert66]

If the Church compromises sexual ethics and moral teachings then who is left to call for such order in society? Hollywood? Politics? GLSEN?

Jesus would not condemn sinners, nor would He appease sin. But, would He sit at a computer screen lamenting that the Church’s unchanging moral teachings were to blame, and that others did nothing for the homeless while he enjoyed His home, automobile, microwave, flat-screen tv, internet, computer, washing machine, dryer, comfortable bed, refrigerator and well-stocked pantry (and likely a few evenings out for dinner or a baseball game from time to time).

Your lectures on what the Church should do would probably go further and your scorn for others be more convincing if you weren’t enjoying one of the most luxurious lifestyles in the history of the world while complaining that the homeless are not being properly served by the Church you claim as your own, and of which consider yourself a member.

All my best…

P.S. I don’t need a litany of your good works in an attempt to justify your “right” to your luxuries. If I offended your sensibilities and you need your conscience soothed or defended, you should most likely talk to your priest, and spare us all the details.

 

[Chris_Marsh]

This is in direct contradiction with the teachings of our Lord and maybe you should have a look at the following passages:

(Deuteronomy 23:17; 1 Kings 14:24;15:12;22:46; 2 Kings 23:7; Job)

Some of us straights know what it is to be lonely, OK? If nothing else we’re likely to vote for such a thing (if we believe in the separation of church and state), at minimum even if we can’t, we still feel for you. It is not a sin to feel sorry for someone, to have compassion. Still, if you choose to follow God, there is no compromise.

 

[Bishop93]

There are plenty of us in the Church that strongly support gay marriage in civil society.

Yeah there are plenty of religious people in general that support gay marriage…I do.

I think some people worry to much about who’s sleeping with who…I don’t care because it’s none of my business and it’s not my place dictate the happiness of gays which is why I support it.

I am by no means a liberal in any other debate such as abortion and sexual abuse by ANY religious authority figure.

Some Catholics dwell on Homosexuality being a sin but I personally know Catholics that defend abusive priest…Why?

Homosexuals final destination is between them and God…Not us.

Homosexuality and gay marriage doesn’t effect us.

Abuse by religious figures effect ALL religious people and God’s reputation to lost souls.

These scandals don’t only put the Catholic’s in a bad light…It puts religion in general in a bad light.

What’s the bigger problem?

 

[andyandely1997]

Yeah there are plenty of religious people in general that support gay marriage…I do.

I think some people worry to much about who’s sleeping with who…I don’t care because it’s none of my business and it’s not my place dictate the happiness of gays which is why I support it.

I am by no means a liberal in any other debate such as abortion and sexual abuse by ANY religious authority figure.

Some Catholics dwell on Homosexuality being a sin but I personally know Catholics that defend abusive priest…Why?

Homosexuals final destination is between them and God…Not us.

Homosexuality and gay marriage doesn’t effect us.

Abuse by religious figures effect ALL religious people and God’s reputation to lost souls.

These scandals don’t only put the Catholic’s in a bad light…It puts religion in general in a bad light.

What’s the bigger problem?

Pointing to priest sexual abuse within the Catholic Church does not make homosexuality right, both are wrong. Homosexuality & gay marriage will affect us, just take a look at Massachusetts & kids in the elementary schools.

massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html

 

[Chris_Marsh]

Maybe homosexuality is a certain “ability” straights don’t have? Disabilities happen. I didn’t volunteer for Asperger syndrome. I was in Christian singles but methinks women run when they observe fundamental differences on the mental level, personality and thought. “This isn’t going to work… see ya”

 

[Bishop93]

Pointing to priest sexual abuse within the Catholic Church does not make homosexuality right, both are wrong. Homosexuality & gay marriage will affect us, just take a look at Massachusetts & kids in the elementary schools.

massresistance.org/media/video/brainwashing.html

I pointed to sexual abuse within ALL religions.

Both topics are about sex…and the effects of it.

2 men having sex does not hurt me or you.

But religious figures sodomizing children hurts the kids and the families yet people still seem to think homosexuality is the bigger issue…It’s NOT.

As far as the videos…They are both way over a decade old and irrelevant.

I when to a private Christian Academy and the question of gay marriage was brought up and talked about often in both a positive and negative light.

At home I was taught to hate gays…Now I support gay marriage.

 

[Elizabeth502]

Did he REALLY adhere to the Jewish moral code though?

Yes, he adhered intensely and intensively to the Jewish moral code. He merely reordered that code and deepened that code to place the correct priorities where they should be.

P.S. Don’t try to quote scripture to a scripture scholar. You actually don’t know what you’re talking about.

 

[rpp]

The teachings of our Lord should certainly direct our own moral compass and act as a guide in civil law. But it should not dictate civil law. If this were the case, we would be no better as a country than Iran.

Gay marriage should be federally mandated in the civil world in order to extend those legal and social benefits that opposite sex married couples enjoy to gay couples. This would have absolutely no impact on the lives of Christians or Catholic married couples, children, etc.

This is not consistent with authentic Catholic teaching.

It is not charity to confirm someone in their sin. Governments are required to take reasonable measure to prevent people from engaging in behavior that is both self destructive and destructive to neighbors. This is why murder, rape and theft are illegal. To “legalize” the “marriage” between mentally deranged sexual deviants is no different than to legalize theft, rape or murder. Using the words of Christ or St. Paul (or Jeremiah, Moses, Jonah, Elijah, Elisha, Ezra, …), please justify your position and show us all how wrong, bigoted and evil God is.

 

[Jermosh]

We are witnessing 1st hand of the some of the historical ills that were created in the past by those in power of the Church. We are not only alienating, creating massive prejudice, but removing Charity from the Church because of a buzz word. We are perfectly fine to allow multitudes of other sins and deviance, but this particular one is the most important? Hogwash and the Church knows its hogwash. Jesus taught me to love and be charitable to all, not look at their heritage, color, or sexual orientation. I dare anyone to show me anywhere in the Gospels where Christ said I am supposed to have limits on my charity, or any other Christian. This types of acts are in absolute direct contradiction of the Very Commandments that CHRIST himself gave us.

 

[nsper7]

What I have to wonder is why on earth a homeless shelter is getting into the gay marriage. Common sense would say they stay out of it since it is a divisive issue and divisive issues can cause funds to dry up.

We are witnessing 1st hand of the some of the historical ills that were created in the past by those in power of the Church. We are not only alienating, creating massive prejudice, but removing Charity from the Church because of a buzz word. We are perfectly fine to allow multitudes of other sins and deviance, but this particular one is the most important? Hogwash and the Church knows its hogwash. Jesus taught me to love and be charitable to all, not look at their heritage, color, or sexual orientation. I dare anyone to show me anywhere in the Gospels where Christ said I am supposed to have limits on my charity, or any other Christian. This types of acts are in absolute direct contradiction of the Very Commandments that CHRIST himself gave us.

I assume if the homeless shelter said they backed handing out pornography to random individuals or were backing abortion or publicly promoting any other kind of sinful activity, the Diocese would have reacted the same way.

Heritage and color are not sins, homosexual activity is a sin and the Church should not be seen backing sinful activity with its funds. If the Church gives money to a group backing gay marriage, then they are potentially indirectly funding a campaign and they are wrongly validating immoral ideas.

It has nothing to do with charity, it has to do with not promoting sin.

 

[nsper7]

I pointed to sexual abuse within ALL religions.

Both topics are about sex…and the effects of it.

2 men having sex does not hurt me or you.

But religious figures sodomizing children hurts the kids and the families yet people still seem to think homosexuality is the bigger issue…It’s NOT.

As far as the videos…They are both way over a decade old and irrelevant.

I when to a private Christian Academy and the question of gay marriage was brought up and talked about often in both a positive and negative light.

At home I was taught to hate gays…Now I support gay marriage.

Homosexual activity is a sin…PERIOD! The Church cannot be seen backing sinful activity.