The Homeless vs. Gay Marriage

[Jermosh]

What I have to wonder is why on earth a homeless shelter is getting into the gay marriage. Common sense would say they stay out of it since it is a divisive issue and divisive issues can cause funds to dry up.

I assume if the homeless shelter said they backed handing out pornography to random individuals or were backing abortion or publicly promoting any other kind of sinful activity, the Diocese would have reacted the same way.

Heritage and color are not sins, homosexual activity is a sin and the Church should not be seen backing sinful activity with its funds. If the Church gives money to a group backing gay marriage, then they are potentially indirectly funding a campaign and they are wrongly validating immoral ideas.

It has nothing to do with charity, it has to do with not promoting sin.

But they already fund sinners and sinful actions everyday. Everyone on this earth is a sinner. Please explain or show anywhere in this Gospel where we are to put limits on our Charity, it is crystal clear that we not to do such a thing.
MAT25
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? **38 ****When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ****39 ****When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ ****40 **And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ **44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ ****45 **He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

 

[nsper7]

But they already fund sinners and sinful actions everyday. Everyone on this earth is a sinner. Please explain or show anywhere in this Gospel where we are to put limits on our Charity, it is crystal clear that we not to do such a thing.
MAT25
33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? **38 ****When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? ****39 ****When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ ****40 **And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ **44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ ****45 **He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

Obviously, sinners (repentant and otherwise) are going to make use of social services, but that is not the issue. The Church did not stop funding this homeless shelter because they help sinners, but because the group has publicly declared its support for a sinful policy?

If said homeless shelter said they were in favor of:

A) Reducing the age of consent so that you can have little children fooling around with adults

or

B) Allowing people to have sex with animals

Then would you still feel the same way? The Church has deemed “gay marriage” a sinful position, so why should the Church fund a group that is openly backing sin?

And you should be weary of quoting Scripture since you (and I) have no authority to interpret it.

 

[Jermosh]

Obviously, sinners (repentant and otherwise) are going to make use of social services, but that is not the issue. The Church did not stop funding this homeless shelter because they help sinners, but because the group has publicly declared its support for a sinful policy?

If said homeless shelter said they were in favor of:

A) Reducing the age of consent so that you can have little children fooling around with adults

or

B) Allowing people to have sex with animals

Then would you still feel the same way? The Church has deemed “gay marriage” a sinful position, so why should the Church fund a group that is openly backing sin?

And you should be weary of quoting Scripture since you (and I) have no authority to interpret it.

That scripture is crystal clear, there is no need for authority to interpret it since it is directly quoted from Christ himself. We are to offer charity to all persons, the ill, criminals, haters, homeless, lepers, etc, etc, etc. Attempt to bring all the strawmen arguments you want, you cannot hide this obvios fact.

 

[nsper7]

That scripture is crystal clear, there is no need for authority to interpret it since it is directly quoted from Christ himself. We are to offer charity to all persons, the ill, criminals, haters, homeless, lepers, etc, etc, etc. Attempt to bring all the strawmen arguments you want, you cannot hide this obvios fact.

The Church is not denying charity to the homeless, She is denying funds to a group that is advocating sin.

EDIT: Remember that knowingly supporting sinful activity is a sin itself.

 

[Jermosh]

The Church is not denying charity to the homeless, She is denying funds to a group that is advocating sin.

EDIT: Remember that knowingly supporting sinful activity is a sin itself.

Hogwash. Jesus directly sat with sinners and had dinner with them. Was He supporting their Sin? We all support sin BTW directly and indirectly, which means we are all sinners, so why only pick on one sin?

 

[Bishop93]

Homosexual activity is a sin…PERIOD! The Church cannot be seen backing sinful activity.

But some people backed abusive religious leaders in ALL religions…That’s my point.

Both things are wrong but one thing is sheltered and the other thing is put out for debate constantly.

 

[andyandely1997]

Hogwash. Jesus directly sat with sinners and had dinner with them. Was He supporting their Sin? We all support sin BTW directly and indirectly, which means we are all sinners, so why only pick on one sin?

“Who said: No man, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.” (John 8:11)

Yes, Christ sat with sinners, but He did not enable them in their sin. Christ came to free us from our sin. “And after that John was delivered up, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, And saying: The time is accomplished, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent, and believe the gospel.” (Mark 1:14-15)

Christ calls all to repentance. If an organization is unrepentant along with going against the gospel, are we still required to support them? “And whosoever shall not receive you, nor hear your words: going forth out of that house or city shake off the dust from your feet. Amen I say to you, it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city.” (Matthew 10 14:15)

 

[IHeartAquinas]

Not all homeless shelters get funding from the Catholic Church. Obviously, this group has a prior connection with the Church. If they changed a stance such as this, yes, it chaffes the relationship with the Church. But what is more important? Denying funding to a charitable organization because of their stance, or maintaining both the charity given to the homeless and a strong vocal stance against this political issue?

Yes, people like to bring up such arrangements as hypocritical, but the Church has stood the test of time for 2,000 years. She would survive this. As to the NAMBLA reference, I doubt any organization that has a prior relationship with the Church would suddenly become fans of NAMBLA or what they stand for. But regardless of the stance taken by the homeless shelter, I doubt the homeless are as concerned about political issues as they are about having a bed, food, and clothing. I’m finding it harder to side with the Diocese than I am with the homeless.

 

[andyandely1997]

I pointed to sexual abuse within ALL religions.

Both topics are about sex…and the effects of it.

2 men having sex does not hurt me or you.

But religious figures sodomizing children hurts the kids and the families yet people still seem to think homosexuality is the bigger issue…It’s NOT.

As far as the videos…They are both way over a decade old and irrelevant.

I when to a private Christian Academy and the question of gay marriage was brought up and talked about often in both a positive and negative light.

At home I was taught to hate gays…Now I support gay marriage.

Two men having sex in private does not affect me, but publicly supporting the homosexual lifestyle along with homosexual marriage will affect our entire society. The videos might be irrelevant to you since you support gay marriage, but it is relevant to many parents who do not want the homosexual lifestyle taught as acceptable behavior to their kids. Just because someone is against the homosexual lifestyle, does not automatically mean they hate gays. As Catholics we are called to admonish the sinner. And we should admonish all sexual sin, not just homosexual sin.

 

[Mrs_V]

Perhaps those Catholics who are so concerned about the homeless that may be affected by these actions could get together and start opening shelters within their own parishes? And encourage others to do the same?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Two men having sex in private does not affect me, but publicly supporting the homosexual lifestyle along with homosexual marriage will affect our entire society. The videos might be irrelevant to you since you support gay marriage, but it is relevant to many parents who do not want the homosexual lifestyle taught as acceptable behavior to their kids. Just because someone is against the homosexual lifestyle, does not automatically mean they hate gays. As Catholics we are called to admonish the sinner. And we should admonish all sexual sin, not just homosexual sin.

I believe all Christians have a religious obligation to admonish the sinner. The Gospel of Matthew speaks about brothers having sin against you, and if he doesn’t listen, you bring two or three brothers, and he doesn’t listen. You take it to the Church.

God will held a greater accountibility on those who permit the sin of homosexual behavior flourish.

As far as this topic goes. Homeless and Gay Marriage are both important. We must always take care of the homeless, the poor, the needy, and we must also correct our fellow brothers who are in Christ, and those who are outside our faith, that the sin of homosexual behavior is sinfully wrong and against natural law.

 

[hellopeople]

Yes, he adhered intensely and intensively to the Jewish moral code. He merely reordered that code and deepened that code to place the correct priorities where they should be.

P.S. Don’t try to quote scripture to a scripture scholar. You actually don’t know what you’re talking about.

lol, I am so sorry Elizabeth, I will keep in my mind that you are a scripture scholar and NEVER DO SUCH A THING AGAIN!!!

So he adhered to the code intensely and intensively, but he changed the code…that doesn’t really make sense. He didn’t follow the code as it was understood at the time, so did he really follow the law? I don’t think he did. He had the authority to change it.

And doesn’t helping the poor seem to trump funding an association that promotes gay marriage, like being good and doing good things seems to trump the rules of the sabbath?

To be honest, for such a self proclaimed “biblical scholar” (and might I add extremely arrogant with your assertion of the title) you seem to be missing the message completely…weren’t the pharisees scholars of scripture as well? hmmmmmm

 

[Michaeljc4]

Why is gay marriage more important than helping the homeless, especially in this day and age, where so many people are hurting financially? It’s not as though the Church herself is suddenly on the gay marriage bandwagon. If this organization does good work helping those who are most vulnerable, why can’t the Church continue to fund a successful program, even if those who run the program take a position contrary to the Church’s on one issue?

If this group suddenly came out pro-death penalty, I suspect that their funding would not be cut off. It’s always about gays. So pathetic. Reading some of the comments about homosexuality in this thread is just…sad.

Perhaps the Diocese of Portland, and the CCHD, will take that money and give it to a different organization to help the same population in Maine. I certainly hope so.

 

[hellopeople]

Why is gay marriage more important than helping the homeless, especially in this day and age, where so many people are hurting financially? It’s not as though the Church herself is suddenly on the gay marriage bandwagon. If this organization does good work helping those who are most vulnerable, why can’t the Church continue to fund a successful program, even if those who run the program take a position contrary to the Church’s on one issue?

If this group suddenly came out pro-death penalty, I suspect that their funding would not be cut off. It’s always about gays. So pathetic. Reading some of the comments about homosexuality in this thread is just…sad.

Perhaps the Diocese of Portland, and the CCHD, will take that money and give it to a different organization to help the same population in Maine. I certainly hope so.

I agree with this. And I think that Jesus would do the same. What is more important…helping homeless or not funding an organization that is helping the poor (a THEME of Jesus’ teachings.

I don’t know if I should post any more passages in the Bible because apparently Elizabeth is biblical scholar so I guess she holds the rights to doing so…but hopefully she is OK with it :

Matthew 25:41-46
41"Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me,** I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’**

44"They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45"He will reply, ‘I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

I can see God reciting these words to the people responsible for the decision and them responding “But Lord, they supported GAY MARRIAGE!”

Don’t you all see the problem here? How are the most rigid followers of Catholicism so blind to compassion.

Also I just want to point out that Jesus said “I was sick and in prison”…as in the way you treat sinners is the way you treat Jesus.

I just can’t believe how caught up some of you are with “following” church teachings that you totally lose sight of Jesus’ message. Pathetic. Just like the pharisees.

 

[Michaeljc4]

People confuse the Magesterium with the Gospels. The former are much easier to follow.

 

[PaulinVA]

I can see God reciting these words to the people responsible for the decision and them responding “But Lord, they supported GAY MARRIAGE!”

Don’t you all see the problem here? How are the most rigid followers of Catholicism so blind to compassion.

Also I just want to point out that Jesus said “I was sick and in prison”…as in the way you treat sinners is the way you treat Jesus.

I just can’t believe how caught up some of you are with “following” church teachings that you totally lose sight of Jesus’ message. Pathetic. Just like the pharisees.

Is it compassion to let someone continue on in their sin, thinking that it is not sin?

You seem to think that the Church must partner with anyone and everyone. This whole thread is about partnering/giving money to an organization at odds with Church teaching. You can make it about not suppoprting the homeless, but it’s really about HOW to support the homeless.

Hurling insults does not make your position any stronger.

 

[Michaeljc4]

This whole thread is about partnering/giving money to an organization at odds with Church teaching.

But they are completely with the church in the main purpose of their organization: to help ‘the least of these.’ It is utterly foolish to turn your back on a group who care for the needy because they signed their name to some petition. Who suffers for this rigid adherence to some secondary issue?

 

[PaulinVA]

But they are completely with the church in the main purpose of their organization: to help ‘the least of these.’ It is utterly foolish to turn your back on a group who care for the needy because they signed their name to some petition. Who suffers for this rigid adherence to some secondary issue?

You are saying that the Church should partner/fund organizations that hold positions contrary to Church teaching.

That might make you happy, but it would give a lot of other people problems.

Another situation: the Episcopal bishop of Washington is actually suing the DC government over efforts to do a land/building swap with a homeless shelter because the church that runs the homeless shelter requires that the homeless listen to a sermon to get a bed to sleep on. The Episcopalians think that preaching the Gospel to a captive audience is wrong as a condition to get help.

 

[hellopeople]

You are saying that the Church should partner/fund organizations that hold positions contrary to Church teaching.

I think so! What if a Muslim group was helping the poor? Would you not want the church to help them out because they don’t believe Jesus is God. That is silly! Did Jesus chastise Roman soldiers because they had different beliefs than him? Did he not help Gentiles because they did not have different beliefs than them? Did the good Samaritan tell the person that he helped that he was wrong in his way? The church could easily say “We don’t agree with your position on gay marriage, but you are working for the greater good, so we can help anyway.”

Just because a group does not hold EVERY belief in common with the Catholic Church does not mean the church should stop funding them…that is just silly.

 

[hellopeople]

Another situation: the Episcopal bishop of Washington is actually suing the DC government over efforts to do a land/building swap with a homeless shelter because the church that runs the homeless shelter requires that the homeless listen to a sermon to get a bed to sleep on. The Episcopalians think that preaching the Gospel to a captive audience is wrong as a condition to get help.

The Episcopalians are right. You shouldn’t force someone to listen to your religious beliefs.