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bingbang
Guest
No it wouldn’t. But its not like you know something they don’t. It is very reasonable to believe that homosexuality is not a sin, even if the Church describes it as such.
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bingbang
Guest
I don’t know anything about these people. Maybe you can throw out some of their views and I could comment on them.Bingbang, do you approve of the agenda of Kevin Jennings and David Bohnett?
. . . . . .
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bingbang
Guest
Yeah. The way education is now, especially higher education, acceptance of all races and sexual orientations is definitely a big part. I personally think it is a good thing though. And I also think that as our generation gets older and the people born after 2000 get to adulthood, no one will even bat an eye at homosexuality. It will be completely normal and there will probably be kids in just about every classroom with two moms or two dads. I actually think that this is a good thing, though you obviously disagree. And to be honest I am quite sure that once the young ones of today grow up to be your age, the church is going to be A LOT more lax about homosexuality and gay marriage. You can say that the church won’t change, but it will. You might be around to see it too.Well, I am 49 and I believe you.
Pity.
V
valoriuslobo
Guest
I hope your predictions don’t come to pass. Higher education is a joke nowadays, trying to impart on young, impressionable minds that oftentimes accept what is told to them wholesale and without thought. So I agree that people don’t “bat an eye” but that’s because our country especially is a country of consumption. God forbid that this come to be. Education is NOT an agent for social change, but a means of passing on knowledge onto others, but sadly this has become inversed. Little is learned by ways of knowledge, but much is said of social equality. All people are equal in the eyes of God, but He does not like sin, whatever it be: the world doesn’t need education or a written piece of paper (ie the constitution) to tell us what equality is.Yeah. The way education is now, especially higher education, acceptance of all races and sexual orientations is definitely a big part. I personally think it is a good thing though. And I also think that as our generation gets older and the people born after 2000 get to adulthood, no one will even bat an eye at homosexuality. It will be completely normal and there will probably be kids in just about every classroom with two moms or two dads. I actually think that this is a good thing, though you obviously disagree. And to be honest I am quite sure that once the young ones of today grow up to be your age, the church is going to be A LOT more lax about homosexuality and gay marriage. You can say that the church won’t change, but it will. You might be around to see it too.
M
markomalley
Guest
Here’s the thing, friend. You don’t list your religion on your profile and you’re pretty much a n00b (only been around 3 months), so I can’t really tell from a posting history if you have a religious preference or not.Yeah. The way education is now, especially higher education, acceptance of all races and sexual orientations is definitely a big part. I personally think it is a good thing though. And I also think that as our generation gets older and the people born after 2000 get to adulthood, no one will even bat an eye at homosexuality. It will be completely normal and there will probably be kids in just about every classroom with two moms or two dads. I actually think that this is a good thing, though you obviously disagree. And to be honest I am quite sure that once the young ones of today grow up to be your age, the church is going to be A LOT more lax about homosexuality and gay marriage. You can say that the church won’t change, but it will. You might be around to see it too.
I fully recognize that the educational establishment in this country has inculturated your generation (and, to a degree, my generation) with the idea that there are no absolutes and that we should be fully accepting of anybody’s idea of right and wrong (provided they are not conservative, of course. Conservatives are haters).
You may be right that the Church may, after my generation has died out, go utterly apostate and deny apostolic tradition. Not only in the area of people with homosexual tendencies, but in the area of female ordination, and so on. Frankly, the Church may declare that transubstantiation is merely a pious myth and that it has no bearing on the truth. The Church also may deny that Jesus needed to die on the cross.
2,000 years of history tell me that the chances of that happening are slim to none. But you are right, it could happen.
I’ll tell you what I think is more likely to happen, though. I think it is far more likely that a sizable portion of bishops and other clergy will decide that it is no longer necessary to follow the teachings held forth by the successor to Peter. And they will decide that it is more appropriate to have an American Catholic “Church”. And I think that people like you will see their wisdom and will follow them. They will be more than happy to accept female “priests,” homosexual “marriage,” and will do whatever it is they will do. They will have all the smells, bells, tawdry OCP hymns, and the vast majority of the properties. People like myself and my offspring, who actually still stand with the Holy Father, will have to organize ourselves in splinter groups…perhaps even depending upon circuit riding priests for the sacraments.
To continue on, those of us “bitter clingers” will be declared mentally ill and the authorities will attempt to have us locked up as psychotic. If you think I’m being melodramatic, you should look up the following article: Homophobia: A new diagnosis for DSM-V? Behavior Therapist, 17, 183-184. If it doesn’t appear in DSM-V, I can virtually guarantee that it will appear in DSM-VI.
I outlined upthread what the teachings of the Church have been for a couple of thousand years. You can read both the writings of St Paul and in the Mosaic Law to see what the teachings were prior to that time. Those teachings haven’t changed nor will they. The question comes in if people are going to follow them. And I am not so pollyanish to think that the vast majority of your generation or your childrens’ generation will do so. And since the homosexual spirit cannot abide with somebody who does not fully support it, the alternative is eventual suppression, persecution and murder of those who oppose it.
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bingbang
Guest
I doubt people are going to start getting murdered for their religious beliefs in North America or Europe any time soon. And the church will probably keep to it that homosexuality is a sin and won’t perform gay marriages…BUT I think they will probably stop bringing it up. No one is asking for outlawing divorce (that I have heard at least) and it kind of gets swept under the rug nowadays. So many people get divorced and remarried that it just doesn’t cause too much of a stir to most people…even in the church. This is what I for see happening with gay marriage.Here’s the thing, friend. You don’t list your religion on your profile and you’re pretty much a n00b (only been around 3 months), so I can’t really tell from a posting history if you have a religious preference or not.
I fully recognize that the educational establishment in this country has inculturated your generation (and, to a degree, my generation) with the idea that there are no absolutes and that we should be fully accepting of anybody’s idea of right and wrong (provided they are not conservative, of course. Conservatives are haters).
You may be right that the Church may, after my generation has died out, go utterly apostate and deny apostolic tradition. Not only in the area of people with homosexual tendencies, but in the area of female ordination, and so on. Frankly, the Church may declare that transubstantiation is merely a pious myth and that it has no bearing on the truth. The Church also may deny that Jesus needed to die on the cross.
2,000 years of history tell me that the chances of that happening are slim to none. But you are right, it could happen.
I’ll tell you what I think is more likely to happen, though. I think it is far more likely that a sizable portion of bishops and other clergy will decide that it is no longer necessary to follow the teachings held forth by the successor to Peter. And they will decide that it is more appropriate to have an American Catholic “Church”. And I think that people like you will see their wisdom and will follow them. They will be more than happy to accept female “priests,” homosexual “marriage,” and will do whatever it is they will do. They will have all the smells, bells, tawdry OCP hymns, and the vast majority of the properties. People like myself and my offspring, who actually still stand with the Holy Father, will have to organize ourselves in splinter groups…perhaps even depending upon circuit riding priests for the sacraments.
To continue on, those of us “bitter clingers” will be declared mentally ill and the authorities will attempt to have us locked up as psychotic. If you think I’m being melodramatic, you should look up the following article: Homophobia: A new diagnosis for DSM-V? Behavior Therapist, 17, 183-184. If it doesn’t appear in DSM-V, I can virtually guarantee that it will appear in DSM-VI.
I outlined upthread what the teachings of the Church have been for a couple of thousand years. You can read both the writings of St Paul and in the Mosaic Law to see what the teachings were prior to that time. Those teachings haven’t changed nor will they. The question comes in if people are going to follow them. And I am not so pollyanish to think that the vast majority of your generation or your childrens’ generation will do so. And since the homosexual spirit cannot abide with somebody who does not fully support it, the alternative is eventual suppression, persecution and murder of those who oppose it.
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
Keving Jennings: Founder of GLSEN, appointed by Obama as “Safe Schools” Czar, currently Assistant Deputy Secretary for the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools at the U.S. Department of Education.I don’t know anything about these people. Maybe you can throw out some of their views and I could comment on them.
The agenda he likes to talk about is the introduction of legislation in all states and enforcement of anti-bullying in schools. The agenda that he does not talk about is his quiet promotion of indoctrination of children in elementary school with ideological sexual education under the guise of advocating “safe schools”, and casual (homo)sexual activity among our teen population.
Because of his agenda, books including those with sexually explicit pictures made it in the library for young kids to look at, if not read. Examples are: Revolutionary Voices by Amie Sonnie, Love and Sex: 10 Stories of Truth and The Full Spectrum: A New Generation of Writing About Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, and Other Identities.
Now you may not object to this; given your age, you are probably not a parent yet. But this generation of parents does not wish their children in middle school to be exposed to obscenity and thoughts that lead to “pornification” and loose morals in their progeny.
Jennings has a controversial record. When he was a teacher, he counseled a teenage boy to use a condom before meeting an adult man in a bus stop restroom, and wrote about it later!
He formed Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) and counseled high school students in dangerous sexual techniques like “fisting.” You know about fisting? Because I did not know about this depravity until I came across it in researching about Jennings and militant homosexual activism. I would not be surprised that it is written about at length in gay literature and discussed in gay culture. This utterly unnatural activity is even in wiki. It is definitely not unheard of in the gay culture and pornography industry. It was only unheard of to people like me and those in my generation.
Because of a powerful alliance of gays, the continued support of Obama, and media that is all too willing to be a propaganda tool for the liberal left, there is a de facto news blackout on Kevin Jennings in MSM. People who want to know have to use purposeful internet searches. I found this one site,
preserveinnocence.org/issues.html
The agenda of David Bohnett will be posted separately.
. . . . . .
I
InSearchofGrace
Guest
A good yet depressing post.…
You may be right that the Church may, after my generation has died out, go utterly apostate and deny apostolic tradition. Not only in the area of people with homosexual tendencies, but in the area of female ordination, and so on. Frankly, the Church may declare that transubstantiation is merely a pious myth and that it has no bearing on the truth. The Church also may deny that Jesus needed to die on the cross.
2,000 years of history tell me that the chances of that happening are slim to none. But you are right, it could happen.
I’ll tell you what I think is more likely to happen, though. I think it is far more likely that a sizable portion of bishops and other clergy will decide that it is no longer necessary to follow the teachings held forth by the successor to Peter. And they will decide that it is more appropriate to have an American Catholic “Church”. And I think that people like you will see their wisdom and will follow them. They will be more than happy to accept female “priests,” homosexual “marriage,” and will do whatever it is they will do. They will have all the smells, bells, tawdry OCP hymns, and the vast majority of the properties. People like myself and my offspring, who actually still stand with the Holy Father, will have to organize ourselves in splinter groups…perhaps even depending upon circuit riding priests for the sacraments.
To continue on, those of us “bitter clingers” will be declared mentally ill and the authorities will attempt to have us locked up as psychotic. If you think I’m being melodramatic, you should look up the following article: Homophobia: A new diagnosis for DSM-V? Behavior Therapist, 17, 183-184. If it doesn’t appear in DSM-V, I can virtually guarantee that it will appear in DSM-VI.
I outlined upthread what the teachings of the Church have been for a couple of thousand years. You can read both the writings of St Paul and in the Mosaic Law to see what the teachings were prior to that time. Those teachings haven’t changed nor will they. The question comes in if people are going to follow them. And I am not so pollyanish to think that the vast majority of your generation or your childrens’ generation will do so. And since the homosexual spirit cannot abide with somebody who does not fully support it, the alternative is eventual suppression, persecution and murder of those who oppose it.
This “bitter clinger” can only get down on her knees and pray. For this country, for the future of our children, including my two sons.
We need an American saint to rise amidst this moral and spiritual void.
. . . . . .
H
havana1
Guest
Homosexuality, in and of itself, is not a sin- it’s a state of being, and if no sin is being committed, then…uh, no sin’s being committed. I’m still waiting for someone to show me where the term “SSA” appears in the Catechism. (The paragraph quoted elsewhere on this thread does not contain the term “same-sex attraction,” either abbreviated or as a written-out term: “SSA” is not a term that originates from the Magisterium.)No it wouldn’t. But its not like you know something they don’t. It is very reasonable to believe that homosexuality is not a sin, even if the Church describes it as such.
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latin_rite
Guest
A lot of European Jews, thought the same thing in Germany during the 1930’s.I doubt people are going to start getting murdered for their religious beliefs in North America or Europe any time soon. .
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latin_rite
Guest
Bit like saying murder is not a sin. But murdering someone is .Homosexuality, in and of itself,
E
Elixir
Guest
I think you’re right. In the chapter on the 6th Commandment, the Catechism mentions “homosexual tendencies” not same sex attraction.Homosexuality, in and of itself, is not a sin- it’s a state of being, and if no sin is being committed, then…uh, no sin’s being committed. I’m still waiting for someone to show me where the term “SSA” appears in the Catechism. (The paragraph quoted elsewhere on this thread does not contain the term “same-sex attraction,” either abbreviated or as a written-out term: “SSA” is not a term that originates from the Magisterium.)
B
bingbang
Guest
My two year old son is sitting next to me right now. I have no problem with those books and I will be completely open with my son about homosexuality. Learning about homosexuality doesn’t make someone gay.Keving Jennings: Founder of GLSEN, appointed by Obama as “Safe Schools” Czar, currently Assistant Deputy Secretary for the Office of Safe and Drug-Free Schools at the U.S. Department of Education.
The agenda he likes to talk about is the introduction of legislation in all states and enforcement of anti-bullying in schools. The agenda that he does not talk about is his quiet promotion of indoctrination of children in elementary school with ideological sexual education under the guise of advocating “safe schools”, and casual (homo)sexual activity among our teen population.
Because of his agenda, books including those with sexually explicit pictures made it in the library for young kids to look at, if not read. Examples are: Revolutionary Voices by Amie Sonnie, Love and Sex: 10 Stories of Truth and The Full Spectrum: A New Generation of Writing About Gay, Lesbian, Bisexual, Transgender, Questioning, and Other Identities.
Now you may not object to this; given your age, you are probably not a parent yet. But this generation of parents does not wish their children in middle school to be exposed to obscenity and thoughts that lead to “pornification” and loose morals in their progeny.
Jennings has a controversial record. When he was a teacher, he counseled a teenage boy to use a condom before meeting an adult man in a bus stop restroom, and wrote about it later!
He formed Gay Lesbian and Straight Education Network (GLSEN) and counseled high school students in dangerous sexual techniques like “fisting.” You know about fisting? Because I did not know about this depravity until I came across it in researching about Jennings and militant homosexual activism. I would not be surprised that it is written about at length in gay literature and discussed in gay culture. This utterly unnatural activity is even in wiki. It is definitely not unheard of in the gay culture and pornography industry. It was only unheard of to people like me and those in my generation.
Because of a powerful alliance of gays, the continued support of Obama, and media that is all too willing to be a propaganda tool for the liberal left, there is a de facto news blackout on Kevin Jennings in MSM. People who want to know have to use purposeful internet searches. I found this one site,
preserveinnocence.org/issues.html
The agenda of David Bohnett will be posted separately.
. . . . . .
Also, if you let your kids out of the house they are going to be exposed to pornography. It is just too easy to look at porn with the internet. If you block it on your computer it is just a matter of time until he sees some at his friend’s house. You might as well tell them about these things first. And to be honest, it isn’t the teachers that are going to promote sexuality in young kids, it is other kids (and they are learning it from tv, music, movies, etc…the entertainment industry will have WAY more impact on kids than any class about sexuality, and nothing you can do to stop it to be honest).
As for teaching kids about fisting, that is pretty ridiculous. Also, to think that fisting is only practiced by homosexuals is a bit naive.
B
bingbang
Guest
Well that is one of the reasons it won’t happen any time soon to be honest.A lot of European Jews, thought the same thing in Germany during the 1930’s.
A
AnimalGal
Guest
In my opinion, on this issue, the Catholic church is wrong. Referring to homosexuality by another name (SSA) is just silly. Who came up with that nonsense?The Catholic Church teaches that SSA is disordered and the act intrinsically evil. The act is morally reprehensible.
.
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bingbang
Guest
No, that isn’t what it is like at all. Being a homosexual is not a sin. Being attracted to people of the same sex is not sinful, but acting on it is a sin (according to the church).Bit like saying murder is not a sin. But murdering someone is .
E
edwest2
Guest
Equal rights to do what?Some believe homosexuality to be a genetic factor. Regardless. it is progress as laws prevent homosexuals from having equal rights.
God bless,
Ed
E
edwest2
Guest
So if you don’t like the answers you’re getting on a Catholic forum, why post here? Church teaching on both natural and spiritual law is quite clear. Insisting the Church is wrong is simply not going to fly, not here.Religion has NO PLACE in civil law. That doesn’t mean any law that is a religious law has no place in civil law, taking it that far would mean laws against murder cannot be passed. That said, if the only reason for banning something is because ‘God said so’, and there are no legitimate secular reasons for it, the ban has no business happening.
We do not live in a secular only culture.
God bless,
Ed
E
edwest2
Guest
How can you predict the future? That’s not scientific. And how can you thank God when the one, holy, Catholic (which means Universal) Church has given its logical and consistent answer?You are right. Historically, religion has had a large hand in forging the laws of this country. But those days are over.
Courts have found that laws based purely on religious principals are unconstitutional. Rightfully so.
Laws against homosexual acts were struck down as explicitly unconstitutional.
Laws against porn, sex toys, and buying liquor on Sunday were also, rightly, found explicitly unconstitutional.
The days of your religious agenda influencing civil law are for the most part over. And they’re never coming back. Thank God.
God bless,
Ed
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edwest2
Guest
No need for a cure.In the last couple weeks, medical researchers have announced finding the physical basis (that is, genetic problems) responsible for migraine headaches and for attention deficit- hyperactivity disorder (ADHD).
We have no reason to lose hope that continuing research will also find the physical basis for homosexuality and eventually a treatment and/or cure for it.
That is so politically incorrect, but it is no different from the other problems.
The only question will be, if there were a cure available for homosexuality, would the gay community embrace it and reform itself? If the problem of homosexuality proves to be the result of something gone wrong in development, which can be cured, wouldn’t 99% of gays want to be set straight?
I think the gays are having parades for the wrong reason – they should be lobbying for research for a cure for their condition, like this month is “breast cancer awareness” month.
And, we all should be praying for a cure for homosexuality, cancer, ALS, muscular dystrophy, etc.
Here’s the story from the Catholic Medical Association -
narth.com/docs/hope.html
God bless,
Ed
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