The homosexual state of mind: Marriage isn't about a man & woman but love & love

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Lochias said:
Children aren’t a punishment, and not responsible for the actions of either parent. Or is being the child because of rape now a crime for you? Should we round up all the adults in the world who were conceived because of rape, and punish them? Should my sister be punished for something a stranger did to my mother, sir?

I can assure you, I am on tether hooks waiting for your reply. :mad:
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No. But if the mother is young, or does not wish to give birth to a baby that she did not consent to, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be allowed to have it aborted. She can keep it if she wants, though - if she’s happy with the child that is certainly a good thing. Notice I’m ‘pro-choice’ and not ‘pro-abortion’.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
No. But if the mother is young, or does not wish to give birth to a baby that she did not consent to, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be allowed to have it aborted. She can keep it if she wants, though - if she’s happy with the child that is certainly a good thing. Notice I’m ‘pro-choice’ and not ‘pro-abortion’.
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Pro choice is pro abortion.
 
Debora123 said:
You know, I’ve debated with people who acknowledge that a fetus is indeed a human being but who go on to justify its killing anyway.

It has been a loooong time, however, since I’ve debated with someone who doesn’t even think a fetus is a human being to begin with.

It’s the 21st century, and we have sufficient science and knowledge to know that a fetus is indeed human. There’s really no debate.
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Yes, and you mananged to make some progress in changing my opinon, so let’s leave it there. I’ll do some more research on my own. Unlike the debate about homosexuality, I feel I may have entered this one misinformed.
 
fix said:
Pro choice is pro abortion.
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Possibly, but the other user was suggesting that I believe all fetuses should be aborted if they’re conceived via rape, but I just believe the mother should have a choice in the matter.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
No. But if the mother is young, or does not wish to give birth to a baby that she did not consent to, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be allowed to have it aborted. She can keep it if she wants, though - if she’s happy with the child that is certainly a good thing. Notice I’m ‘pro-choice’ and not ‘pro-abortion’.
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Again, her suffering is unfortunate and pitiable, but it doesn’t justify killing. Life isn’t always about what we want and don’t want to do. It’s about what’s the right thing to do. We don’t ask for a lot of the things that happen to us in life, and a lot of them are extremely painful–physically, psychologically and spiritually–but we still have to deal with them. I don’t understand why many are so eager to make an exception in this case. It’s a cultural pro-abortion mentality that gives birth to this sentiment, regardless of your particular stance.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Hm. Maybe I need to reconsider some of my arguments when it comes to abortion. It’s not something I am particularly passionate about, or did much research on (unlike the issue of homosexuality). I will let you all be cocky and arrogant, now, as you may have made some progress in changing my opinon of abortions.
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There’s nothing to be arrogant or cocky about where human life is concerned.
However, I do maintain that there are situations in which abortion is perfectly justified, and I’m not quite sure if an egg cell deserves human rights the moment it is fertilised, which is what you seem to be implying.
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If that fertilized egg cell has the possibility to develop into a full human being, there can be no question. Anything less is simply choosing when to murder the child…before, or after.

And, no human, no child, should pay for the sins of another person. There can be no justified abortion…it is a human life, and needs a choice just as much as the mother.

The mother HAS a choice: Raise the child, adopt it out, or murder it. No-one has ever said that the mother has no choices. Not all choices are good ones, and some bad choices cannot be justified, no matter how hard a person tries.
 
prodigalson2011 said:
Again, her suffering is unfortunate and pitiable, but it doesn’t justify killing. Life isn’t always about what we want and don’t want to do. It’s about what’s the right thing to do. We don’t ask for a lot of the things that happen to us in life, and a lot of them are extremely painful–physically, psychologically and spiritually–but we still have to deal with them. I don’t understand why many are so eager to make an exception in this case. It’s a cultural pro-abortion mentality that gives birth to this sentiment, regardless of your particular stance.
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This, very much this.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Hm. Maybe I need to reconsider some of my arguments when it comes to abortion. It’s not something I am particularly passionate about, or did much research on (unlike the issue of homosexuality).
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You have all my respect in the world for saying this.
I will let you all be cocky and arrogant, now, as you may have made some progress in changing my opinon of abortions.
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This comment, however, not so much. :nope:
 
Hm. Well, well done. You guys make a convincing argument against abortion. Very much so. :clapping:
 
Regular_Atheist said:
No. But if the mother is young, or does not wish to give birth to a baby that she did not consent to, I don’t see why she shouldn’t be allowed to have it aborted. She can keep it if she wants, though - if she’s happy with the child that is certainly a good thing. Notice I’m ‘pro-choice’ and not ‘pro-abortion’.
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My mother recognized that my sister, too, had rights. My mother was ostracized from her family and friends when she became pregnant from rape.

But she gave birth to the child, and then adopted it away. Years later, she found us, and now we have a loving relationship.

She is willing to forgive her father, and has tried to find him.

All this, because my Mom recognized that her child had a right to be born, to know, to love, to forgive, to heal, not only herself, but others.

Abortion will never, ever be ok. It is murder, it is the taking of life, of possibility, of dreams, hopes and futures.

I love my sister very, very much.
 
Lochias said:
My mother recognized that my sister, too, had rights. My mother was ostracized from her family and friends when she became pregnant from rape.

But she gave birth to the child, and then adopted it away. Years later, she found us, and now we have a loving relationship.

She is willing to forgive her father, and has tried to find him.

All this, because my Mom recognized that her child had a right to be born, to know, to love, to forgive, to heal, not only herself, but others.

Abortion will never, ever be ok. It is murder, it is the taking of life, of possibility, of dreams, hopes and futures.

I love my sister very, very much.
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Beautiful commentary, Lochias
 
Debora123 said:
You know, I’ve debated with people who acknowledge that a fetus is indeed a human being but who go on to justify its killing anyway.
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This, IMHO, is a much more diabolical position that the pro-abortion movement has taken. To acknowledge that the fetus is indeed a human being…but to proclaim that it’s okay to kill a human being because [insert any reason whatsoever] is, to my mind, astonishingly evil thinking.

But that’s the road that pro-abortionists have had to take, given the evidence provided by science.
It has been a loooong time, however, since I’ve debated with someone who doesn’t even think a fetus is a human being to begin with.
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And, as Regular Atheist has shown, this position is a more tenuous position and easier to refute.

IOW: those who proclaim the fetus is not a human being are more easily persuaded about the immorality of abortion.
 
Bradski said:
You may have noticed some other ways that we are made that don’t really tie in with your idea of compatibility.

A woman ovulates just once a month. With just one egg so she can produce one child. When she conceives, she’s out of the production line for about a year.

Men produce more sperm than you could count every second of the day. That’s because we’re never out of the production line and why we feel like sex all the time. If we impregnate one woman, the production line goes on and we are made – literally made, to go on and impregnate as many as we can.

Our fertility goes on many years after a woman has reached a point where she cannot conceive. That’s because we are made, literally made, to keep on producing offspring without any regard for the woman we share our cave/hut/apartment.

Does that sound like we’re in any way compatible for lifetime fidelity, Jim?
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Good point, sort of…

I would say to this:
  1. Ok…but do you think we are supposed to “keep on producing offspring without any regard for the woman we share our cave/hut/apartment”. How is this viewed throughout history and society today? Not very well in fact…
  2. You don’t live your life this way…correct? I’m assuming of course… Just kind of would ‘feel’ wrong don’t you think?
  3. We’re hard wired (or created) to do all sorts of things that our better judgement (or conscience) keeps in check.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Yes, and you mananged to make some progress in changing my opinon, so let’s leave it there. I’ll do some more research on my own. Unlike the debate about homosexuality, I feel I may have entered this one misinformed.
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I too, really respect you for that.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
Hm. Maybe I need to reconsider some of my arguments when it comes to abortion. It’s not something I am particularly passionate about, or did much research on (unlike the issue of homosexuality). You have the right to be proud (if it were not a sin), now, as you may have made some progress in changing my opinon of abortions.

However, I do maintain that there are situations in which abortion is perfectly justified, and I’m not quite sure if an egg cell deserves human rights the moment it is fertilised, which is what you seem to be implying.
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I think convincing someone relies on a common starting point. In this case: murder is wrong.
But then it all falls apart when trying to define terms.
Murder; the taking of innocence human life.
Human life; at conception or some other randomly convenient time.

If the person you are having a discussion with sees no problem with murder, both parties are wasting oxygen.

With same-sex marriage being possible, step one is to define marriage. Is it defined by the state/tribe or is it a natural condition of man?
 
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