The homosexual state of mind: Marriage isn't about a man & woman but love & love

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Lochias said:
My mother recognized that my sister, too, had rights. My mother was ostracized from her family and friends when she became pregnant from rape.

But she gave birth to the child, and then adopted it away. Years later, she found us, and now we have a loving relationship.

She is willing to forgive her father, and has tried to find him.

All this, because my Mom recognized that her child had a right to be born, to know, to love, to forgive, to heal, not only herself, but others.

Abortion will never, ever be ok. It is murder, it is the taking of life, of possibility, of dreams, hopes and futures.

I love my sister very, very much.
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There is also a story of an abortion surviver called Gianna Jensen:

Part 1- youtube.com/watch?v=kPF1FhCMPuQ

Part 2- youtube.com/watch?v=k8B1nKGIAeg&feature=endscreen&NR=1
 
CopticChristian said:
Regular,

This is “unleavened bread ministries” act…I don’t know much about them…someone might…but this is a fringe as far as I can see…and I would say that it is not representative of anything but a fringe.
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Well, yeah, you’re certainly right there. Can’t argue with that. 🤷
 
prodigalson2011 said:
Thank you for sharing this beautiful testimony, Lochias. I am so happy for your family. What a moving story! An uplifting example of how God can bring an even greater good out of evil. 🙂 👍
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You’re welcome. I’m more proud of my mom than she’ll ever know.
 
Regular_Atheist said:
It’s quite funny you saying that, seeing as Christianity has been the cause of a lot of that disrespect for human life. 🤷
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What you mean, I think, is that Christians have been the cause of a lot of disrespect for human life.

But for Christianity, we would still be putting unwanted babies out in the cold to freeze to death, (oh, wait, we still do that, despite the Christian ethos), clobbering the losing team and celebrating their deaths with gory abandon, putting women into servitude, declaring that the white man is superior…etc etc etc.
 
PRmerger said:
What you mean, I think, is that Christians have been the cause of a lot of disrespect for human life.

But for Christianity, we would still be putting unwanted babies out in the cold to freeze to death, (oh, wait, we still do that, despite the Christian ethos), clobbering the losing team and celebrating their deaths with gory abandon, putting women into servitude, declaring that the white man is superior…etc etc etc.
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Infanticide, genocide, slavery, and tribalism are all enjoined in the Bible.
 
ASimon said:
Infanticide, genocide, slavery, and tribalism are all enjoined in the Bible.
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I can’t believe you’ve been on these forums this long and are still trotting out this tired argument. :rolleyes:
 
prodigalson2011 said:
I can’t believe you’ve been on these forums this long and are still trotting out this tired argument. :rolleyes:
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I know. You’d think these so-called ‘Christians’ would’ve actually read the Bible once or twice and not need the likes of me to remind them of this.
 
ASimon said:
Infanticide, genocide, slavery, and tribalism are all enjoined in the Bible.
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Perhaps if you were discussing on a Fundamentalist Christian forum, and all they had was the Bible to determine God’s Word, that might be a position from which you could argue.

But, as you are on a Catholic forum, you ought to know that this argument is always answered by the Church:

We proclaim that biblical revelation is deeply rooted in history. The economy of salvation is revealed progressively and it is accomplished slowly.

God chose a tribal people and patiently worked to guide and educate them. As Pope B16 says, “Revelation is suited to the cultural and moral level of distant times and thus describes facts and customs, such as cheating and trickery, and acts of violence and massacre, without explicitly denouncing the immorality of such things. This can be explained by the historical context, yet it can cause the modern reader to be taken aback, especially if he or she fails to take account of the many “dark” deeds carried out down the centuries, and also in our own day.”

Perhaps you were unaware, ASimon, that in the Old Testament, His prophets vigorously challenged every kind of injustice and violence as a way of training his people in preparation for the Gospel?

Again, from Pope B16: “We should be aware that the correct interpretation of these passages requires a degree of expertise, acquired through a training that interprets the texts in their historical-literary context and within the Christian perspective which has as its ultimate hermeneutical key “the Gospel and the new commandment of Jesus Christ brought about in the paschal mystery”. I encourage scholars and pastors to help all the faithful to approach these passages through an interpretation which enables their meaning to emerge in the light of the mystery of Christ.” -Verbum Domini, Pope B16
 
ASimon said:
I know. You’d think these so-called ‘Christians’ would’ve actually read the Bible once or twice and not need the likes of me to remind them of this.
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You should speak with a Catholic priest, then. They are required to read and study the Bible extensively as part of their learning, so you’ll have no worries about whether or not you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t know of what they speak.
 
Lochias said:
You should speak with a Catholic priest, then. They are required to read and study the Bible extensively as part of their learning, so you’ll have no worries about whether or not you’re dealing with someone who doesn’t know of what they speak.
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I’ve never met a Christian who was willing to acknowledge what the Bible actually says in regards to these issues. It doesn’t surprise me. If you say, on one hand, that God is the Ultimate, Unchanging, Eternal, Moral Center of Everything, and on the other hand, that the horrors of the OT were actually condoned, if not out right ordered by this God, then it puts you in a pretty sketchy place as a so-called “moral person.”

The only option, it seems to me, is for Christians to obfuscate and rationalize away the offensive parts of the OT. But under no circumstances can they admit that the books actually mean what they say they mean.
 
ASimon said:
I’ve never met a Christian who was willing to acknowledge what the Bible actually says in regards to these issues. It doesn’t surprise me. If you say, on one hand, that God is the Ultimate, Unchanging, Eternal, Moral Center of Everything, and on the other hand, that the horrors of the OT were actually condoned, if not out right ordered by this God, then it puts you in a pretty sketchy place as a so-called “moral person.”

The only option, it seems to me, is for Christians to obfuscate and rationalize away the offensive parts of the OT. But under no circumstances can they admit that the books actually mean what they say they mean.
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Will you be speaking with a priest? They’re very knowledgeable, and can point out to you the mistakes in your own learning on this subject.
 
ASimon said:
I’ve never met a Christian who was willing to acknowledge what the Bible actually says in regards to these issues. It doesn’t surprise me. If you say, on one hand, that God is the Ultimate, Unchanging, Eternal, Moral Center of Everything, and on the other hand, that the horrors of the OT were actually condoned, if not out right ordered by this God, then it puts you in a pretty sketchy place as a so-called “moral person.”

The only option, it seems to me, is for Christians to obfuscate and rationalize away the offensive parts of the OT. But under no circumstances can they admit that the books actually mean what they say they mean.
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I’ve never met an atheist who will acknowledge that atheists probably killed more people in the last century that Christians did throughout history.
 
ASimon said:
I But under no circumstances can they admit that the books actually mean what they say they mean.
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Again, if you were on a Fundamentalist Christian forum perhaps you’d have a good argument.

But I don’t have to remind you that you are in dialogue with Catholics, and we don’t take the Bible “to mean what they say they mean”, as you understand it.
 
ASimon said:
I’ve never met a Christian who was willing to acknowledge what the Bible actually says in regards to these issues.
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With all due respect, I doubt that you’ve actually looked for Christians who are willing to acknowledge what the Bible says.

As I’ve already alluded to: Pope B16 has addressed this very thing you mentioned. He acknowledges, “In discussing the relationship between the Old and the New Testaments, the Synod also considered those passages in the Bible which, due to the violence and immorality they occasionally contain, prove obscure and difficult.”–Verbum Domini

And you don’t have to look very far than this very apostolate to find our own Jimmy Akin discussing it here.
 
PRmerger said:
Again, if you were on a Fundamentalist Christian forum perhaps you’d have a good argument.

But I don’t have to remind you that you are in dialogue with Catholics, and we don’t take the Bible “to mean what they say they mean”, as you understand it.
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My point is that nobody takes the Bible to mean what it says. Not even Fundie Christians. They’re all playing the same game in their heads, all the while proclaiming themselves to be the “real” Christians. So I’d have nothing to gain by speaking to this priest or that theologian - as they’re basically working from the same absurd premise: That the Creator of the Universe wrote/dictated/inspired a book so superficially faulty that it actually REQUIRES mortals to study it and offer their counter-intuitive interpretations to allow us the luxury of calling it a worthy guide to life in the 21st century.
 
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