"The Homosexual's Search for Happiness"

[fix]

MariaGorettiGrl:

I’d have to argue that there can be no such thing as “just discrimination”.

There certainly is just discrimination. We discriminate all the time and we are called to by the virtue of prudence. The Vatican has asked our politicians to reject all laws that would legalize “gay” adoption and “marriage” as one example. That certainly is just discrimination.

Because it is a political hot topic right now, homosexuality has been thrown into the spotlight. I find myself very fortunate that my sins have not been thrown into the public arena like that.

I disagee. The topic is hot because we all have failed to stop the drive of immoral behavior that is acceptable for many decades. It is true that impure heterosexual behavior may have been a big part of the etiology of the culture of death, but the recent push by those foisting the “gay” agenda is responsible for all the attention getting.

The bottom line is that we’re all miserable sinners. None of us have any right to say that a homosexual person’s sins are worse than our own. I believe that’s God’s domain, to judge how serious each of our sins are. Despite our sins, God still loves EVERY LAST ONE of us and told us to do the same, with no provisions for people we think it would be “just” to discriminate against (whether or not you ever openly have).

We certainly should love each other, but that in no way means tolerating sin or leading another into sin by following political correctness.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

We certainly should love each other, but that in no way means tolerating sin or leading another into sin by following political correctness.

While I agree that political correctness (“homosexuality is a normal and natural form of human sexuality” – that’s the PC line these days), we should also be careful in how we approach people in the community.

What is the spirit behind the actions of so many people these days? In some, I can definitely say that I sense a spirit of the man Jesus speaks of in Luke 18:11-12. This shouldn’t be so if we are Christians!

The Church must be VERY careful in how she deals with these issues and HER MEMBERS MUST AS WELL. How many people talk about “homosexuals” (which, in itself is not the right way of saying it…the Church says “homosexual persons”) without differentiating between those struggling to live in accord with the teachings of the Church and those who are not? How many people make it a point to differentiate the PERSONHOOD of each homosexual person from their actions and actually treat each person with RESPECT and DIGNITY as another human person made in the image and likeness of God?

In my case, I can tell you that the Church’s HUMANIZING teaching in the Catechism is one of the things that drew me in to the Church. It wasn’t the self-righteous attitude I see eminating from so many people I read. That would only serve to push people away and certainly may cause many people who would otherwise repent and come into the Church to be repulsed from the Church. Is that something you want on your soul when you stand before Jesus?

 

[fix]

LCMS_No_More:

While I agree that political correctness (“homosexuality is a normal and natural form of human sexuality” – that’s the PC line these days), we should also be careful in how we approach people in the community.

What is the spirit behind the actions of so many people these days? In some, I can definitely say that I sense a spirit of the man Jesus speaks of in Luke 18:11-12. This shouldn’t be so if we are Christians!

The Church must be VERY careful in how she deals with these issues and HER MEMBERS MUST AS WELL. How many people talk about “homosexuals” (which, in itself is not the right way of saying it…the Church says “homosexual persons”) without differentiating between those struggling to live in accord with the teachings of the Church and those who are not? How many people make it a point to differentiate the PERSONHOOD of each homosexual person from their actions and actually treat each person with RESPECT and DIGNITY as another human person made in the image and likeness of God?

In my case, I can tell you that the Church’s HUMANIZING teaching in the Catechism is one of the things that drew me in to the Church. It wasn’t the self-righteous attitude I see eminating from so many people I read. That would only serve to push people away and certainly may cause many people who would otherwise repent and come into the Church to be repulsed from the Church. Is that something you want on your soul when you stand before Jesus?

I say to you that if someone is put off that does not mean the person has an authentic reason to be offended. We need to read each others words more carefully and in full context.

I am more concerned with offending God then with offending those who support he “gay” agenda. As to your specfic case I cannot comment as I do not know you. I have commented on some of your posts so please point out where you think I was being uncharitable and perhaps we can come to a meeting of the minds.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

I am more concerned with offending God then with offending those who support he “gay” agenda.

As am I, but (there’s always a but) our goal as Christians should always be to model CHRIST. Christ reached out to sinners, he didn’t condemn them harshly like I see so many people here do (again, look up Luke 18:11-12 and you can SEE the attitude). He DID point out their sin but He also treated each person with compassion and dignity. How many times do we see where it says, “and Jesus was moved with compassion” or “and Jesus loved him.”

Also note that Jesus spent a LOT of time denouncing the religious class because of their hypocrisy. How many of us Christians are Pharisaical in our ways? We love to talk about “them thar homosexials” but are hateful or judgemental or actually have the unmitigated GALL to say things like “fornication is a moral act commited in illicit circumstances.”

As to your specfic case I cannot comment as I do not know you. I have commented on some of your posts so please point out where you think I was being uncharitable and perhaps we can come to a meeting of the minds.

I wasn’t addressing you specifically but the general attitude that rears its ugly, Pharisaical, judgemental head when this topic comes up.

 

[m134e5]

fix:

I say to you that if someone is put off that does not mean the person has an authentic reason to be offended. We need to read each others words more carefully and in full context.

I am more concerned with offending God then with offending those who support he “gay” agenda.

People aren’t going to read each other’s words more carefully in full context- if they think they are being condemned for something they know they cannot help, and there is no distinction in their minds between (the sinfulness of) attractions, lust, and actions (also because people talk about forgiveness of sins, but this sin apparently is unforgiveable), their minds CLOSE- that is reality. People (all people- not just those who struggle with homosexuality) do that for all sorts of things- so they don’t get torn apart emotionally. If something looks like it’s just going to be another message of hate, they’re not going to take time to read it totally, because there’s a good chance it could just be another slap in the face.

Much of the gay community is very bitter towards Christians- I have spoken to many who have told me, and I have witnessed myself on too many occasions to count, how bible-thumping fundamentalist preachers in $2000 suits would scream from the pulpit about how evil homosexuality is and how homosexual persons were going to hell while they (the elect, which of course included the pastor) were enjoying the glories of heaven (they don’t make much effort to distinguish between attractions, lust, and actions either- if they even think there is a difference)- then turn around and talk about how God is so quick to forgive people for their lack of faith, or alchoholism, or drug use, or impatience or unkindness, or even murder.

People who struggle with homosexuality who have grown up or have been mostly exposed to fundamentalism and evangelicalism CAN’T assume Catholics don’t think that way- they see anything that questions their lifestyle in the same light as the bigoted sermons by Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, and Co- because that is the lens they look at Christianity through- and they cannot help that. People may have to go out of their way to make sure they are not seen in the same light as the fundamentalist preachers- and try to help them change their perception of Christianity (without compromising the truth)- and may have to work to convince them that the Church’s teaching on homosexuality (that they are called to chastity) isn’t oppressive or bigoted at all.

I’ve read the testimonies about the organization whose website I give below- it is clear it has made a difference in a lot of lives. It is regognized by the Church, and has been endorsed by people such as Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Archbishop Chaput of Denver, and it has also been featured on EWTN’s Life on the Rock. For anyone who may need it, here is a Catholic answer to homosexuality:

www.couragerc.org

 

[fix]

m134e5:

People aren’t going to read each other’s words more carefully in full context- if they think they are being condemned for something they know they cannot help, and there is no distinction in their minds between (the sinfulness of) attractions, lust, and actions (also because people talk about forgiveness of sins, but this sin apparently is unforgiveable), their minds CLOSE- that is reality. People (all people- not just those who struggle with homosexuality) do that for all sorts of things- so they don’t get torn apart emotionally. If something looks like it’s just going to be another message of hate, they’re not going to take time to read it totally, because there’s a good chance it could just be another slap in the face.

Much of the gay community is very bitter towards Christians- I have spoken to many who have told me, and I have witnessed myself on too many occasions to count, how bible-thumping fundamentalist preachers in $2000 suits would scream from the pulpit about how evil homosexuality is and how homosexual persons were going to hell while they (the elect, which of course included the pastor) were enjoying the glories of heaven (they don’t make much effort to distinguish between attractions, lust, and actions either- if they even think there is a difference)- then turn around and talk about how God is so quick to forgive people for their lack of faith, or alchoholism, or drug use, or impatience or unkindness, or even murder.

People who struggle with homosexuality who have grown up or have been mostly exposed to fundamentalism and evangelicalism CAN’T assume Catholics don’t think that way- they see anything that questions their lifestyle in the same light as the bigoted sermons by Jerry Falwell, John Hagee, and Co- because that is the lens they look at Christianity through- and they cannot help that. People may have to go out of their way to make sure they are not seen in the same light as the fundamentalist preachers- and try to help them change their perception of Christianity (without compromising the truth)- and may have to work to convince them that the Church’s teaching on homosexuality (that they are called to chastity) isn’t oppressive or bigoted at all.

I’ve read the testimonies about the organization whose website I give below- it is clear it has made a difference in a lot of lives. It is regognized by the Church, and has been endorsed by people such as Fr. Benedict Groeschel, Archbishop Chaput of Denver, and it has also been featured on EWTN’s Life on the Rock. For anyone who may need it, here is a Catholic answer to homosexuality:

www.couragerc.org

I have read much info from courage and I repsect their position. I cannot say I agree with every single aspect of what the founder has said, but in general they are to be commended.

As to your other assertions I agree to a point, but I do not give my full endorsement of the entire post. That some in the “gay” community may have has some “negative” experience with some aspect of some Christian group in no way means each person on earth must be over solicitous for fear of offending one who has an unbalanced sense of insult. Now, we can argue as to the best approach, but for too long the activists has called the shots and set the tone. Words are hurled like homophobic, hate monger, etc. While some subset of folks may be gulity of these things, most go the other way and openly endorse perversion. We do not need to walk on egg shells to be Christians.

We live in strange times. Those folks with homosexual inclinations have no legitimate fear of hate from Catholics. To be sure, part of the pathology is a persecution complex and the need to be grandiose in complaining of hostility and intolerance from those who defend the truth. To help with the cure does not mean minimizing the problem or giving in to false charges of acting in an uncharitable manner.

IMO, you have accepted the stereotype of the bad Christian the “gay” folks so want you to accept.

 

[fix]

LCMS_No_More:

As am I, but (there’s always a but) our goal as Christians should always be to model CHRIST. Christ reached out to sinners, he didn’t condemn them harshly like I see so many people here do (again, look up Luke 18:11-12 and you can SEE the attitude). He DID point out their sin but He also treated each person with compassion and dignity. How many times do we see where it says, “and Jesus was moved with compassion” or “and Jesus loved him.”

Is there anything I have posted that contradicts the faith? Please show me and I will correct it. I do not see many mistreating sinners here, but I have seen plenty who may be gulity of trying to lead others astray and you know what Christ had to say of such folks.

Also note that Jesus spent a LOT of time denouncing the religious class because of their hypocrisy. How many of us Christians are Pharisaical in our ways? We love to talk about “them thar homosexials” but are hateful or judgemental or actually have the unmitigated GALL to say things like “fornication is a moral act commited in illicit circumstances.”

Not the Pharisee charge again. Please read the bible closely. Christ said to do exactly as they tell you, but do not do as they do. The had the seat of Moses, but were hypocrites. The law is the law. If you have an issue with that, then you have an issue with God.

It is true mortal sin is mortal sin and no one disputes that. Homosexual acts are particularly disordered, why minimize it?

I wasn’t addressing you specifically but the general attitude that rears its ugly, Pharisaical, judgemental head when this topic comes up.

So others may not “judge”, but you may “judge” them?

 

[LCMS_No_More]

fix:

Is there anything I have posted that contradicts the faith? Please show me and I will correct it.

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. It’s unsanitary.

I never said anything about the faith. I’m talking about attitudes.

fix:

I do not see many mistreating sinners here,

I have. Not by you, but I have read some posts that are very uncharitable and unchristian coming from professing Catholics right here.

fix:

but I have seen plenty who may be gulity of trying to lead others astray and you know what Christ had to say of such folks.

And you’ll see me tell them that they are wrong as well. By no means will I try to diminish the gravity the sinfulness of homosexual acts. I won’t try to diminish the gravity of other mortal sins in order to increase the gravity of this sin, either (like someone tried to do with fornication).

fix:

Not the Pharisee charge again. Please read the bible closely. Christ said to do exactly as they tell you, but do not do as they do. The had the seat of Moses, but were hypocrites. The law is the law. If you have an issue with that, then you have an issue with God.

I don’t have an issue with the teachings of the Church. I’m not trying to diminish the gravity of homosexual acts. In fact, I’m not even talking about that at all. I’m talking about the spirit in which some of the posts are made…I can almost feel that seething anger and hatred towards “them thar homasexials” in the posts, without distinction of whether that homasexial is struggling to live in accord with the Church or not.

fix:

It is true mortal sin is mortal sin and no one disputes that. Homosexual acts are particularly disordered, why minimize it?

But, it’s okay to INCREASE the gravity of homosexual acts to put it almost on par with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Gotcha.

Why not stick with what the Church says and leave it at that?

fix:

LCMS_No_More:

I wasn’t addressing you specifically but the general attitude that rears its ugly, Pharisaical, judgemental head when this topic comes up.

So others may not “judge”, but you may “judge” them?

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. Keep your hands out of my mouth! I don’t know where they’ve been. I’m talking about an attitude…an issue of the heart. Do you want to see homosexual persons come to Christ, repent and have life or do you gleefully hope that all of us go straight to hell? THAT’S what I’m talking about. I see, what appears to be, the gleeful wish to watch all homosexual persons, again, without distinction as to chastity, go to hell as fuel. That attitude is simply sickening and satanic and I’m getting tired of seeing it.

 

[fix]

LCMS_No_More:

Kindly do not put words in my mouth. It’s unsanitary.

I never said anything about the faith. I’m talking about attitudes.

Attitudes? I can only read words, not minds.

I have. Not by you, but I have read some posts that are very uncharitable and unchristian coming from professing Catholics right here.

OK, some are wrong. We can both agree to that.

And you’ll see me tell them that they are wrong as well. By no means will I try to diminish the gravity the sinfulness of homosexual acts. I won’t try to diminish the gravity of other mortal sins in order to increase the gravity of this sin, either (like someone tried to do with fornication).

I am not a moral theologian, but I have seen arguments that place certain acts as worse than others. Certainly the bible points out a handful that cry out to heaven for justice. IMO, the acts are so contary to human nature that most are repulsed. Aquinas has also stated that some of these sins are more offensive than others and I have posted his work here before.

…I can almost feel that seething anger and hatred towards “them thar homasexials” in the posts, without distinction of whether that homasexial is struggling to live in accord with the Church or not.

I do not think that is fair. I cannot say I have seen more than a few posts that have condemned folks who are trying to live out the faith with their affliction. Most posters admire those who pick up their cross.

But, it’s okay to INCREASE the gravity of homosexual acts to put it almost on par with blasphemy of the Holy Spirit. Gotcha.

No one has made that argument here.

Why not stick with what the Church says and leave it at that?

I do and I have.

I see, what appears to be, the gleeful wish to watch all homosexual persons, again, without distinction as to chastity, go to hell as fuel. That attitude is simply sickening and satanic and I’m getting tired of seeing it.

This is way off base and you are implying things that are not present.

 

[m134e5]

I have read much info from courage and I repsect their position. I cannot say I agree with every single aspect of what the founder has said, but in general they are to be commended.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am curious…what don’t you agree with what the founder of Courage has said?

That some in the “gay” community may have has some “negative” experience with some aspect of some Christian group in no way means each person on earth must be over solicitous for fear of offending one who has an unbalanced sense of insult.

We must not be ‘over solicitous’ or we’ll never get any substantial messages across. Just make sure people understand that the person themselves is not an abomination before God- the temptations which they cannot help do not affect their status in God’s eyes. Many (maybe most?) in the gay community have had bad experiences with churches. The way many preachers- especially protestant fundamentalists, and because they’re so ‘loud’ that’s the only brand of Christianity many people see, they think that’s what they all think- and those who are raised in it believe that the version of God they grew up hearing about- the angry God who will send them to hell unless they are not homosexual (no distinction clearly made between attractions and lust/actions) is the true God- so they leave- but not out of rebelliousness- out of shame.

Now, we can argue as to the best approach, but for too long the activists has called the shots and set the tone. Words are hurled like homophobic, hate monger, etc. While some subset of folks may be gulity of these things, most go the other way and openly endorse perversion. We do not need to walk on egg shells to be Christians.

Yes- the ‘gay’ activists have set the tone for themselves…but why do you think they did? Sure, some of them simply wanted to be rebellious, but I bet most grew up in Christian homes and were told homosexuality was an abomination before God- and that thoughts may as well be actions- and that attractions and thoughts were the same.

We live in strange times. Those folks with homosexual inclinations have no legitimate fear of hate from Catholics.

Perception is everything. It doesn’t matter if their fear is legitimate or not- it exists- plain and simple. What is the Christian answer to this situation? Is it “tough luck for you- I don’t have to try to help you if you’re angry and hurt”, or should people try to ease their fears? People reach out to scared women who are pregnant out of wedlock and are thinking of having an abortion- if people just lectured them on how wrong it was, it would only make things worse. Compassion works!

To be sure, part of the pathology is a persecution complex and the need to be grandiose in complaining of hostility and intolerance from those who defend the truth. To help with the cure does not mean minimizing the problem or giving in to false charges of acting in an uncharitable manner.

IMO, you have accepted the stereotype of the bad Christian the “gay” folks so want you to accept.

It’s not a stereotype- it’s the truth- I’ve seen it, and so have many others- in many places- mostly in protestant fundamentalist and evangelical circles (that’s where I was raised). Stereotypes don’t form for no reason- they are common enough realities that people start grouping everyone in the category where they were common together. I know Catholicism is not like that- but not everyone does- remember a lot of ‘outsiders’ don’t understant that Catholicism isn’t just fundamentalism in Latin with celibate ministers, prohibition of birth control, acceptance of alchohol use, and better tastes in art, architecture, and music (that’s what I thought Catholicism was- obviously that was before I had heard of OCP). For the record, I don’t endorse the ‘gay’ community at all- I have lost people very close to me to the vanity, self pity, and moral relativism that flourishes in the ‘gay’ community. I pray for their return to the practice of their faith- and for all who are misled by one of satan’s emptiest of promises.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

fix:

I am not a moral theologian, but I have seen arguments that place certain acts as worse than others. Certainly the bible points out a handful that cry out to heaven for justice.

You’ll get no argument from me. What I’m talking about is people diminishing the gravity of other mortal sins to the extent that they appear venial compared to a single homosexual THOUGHT, let alone action.

fix:

IMO, the acts are so contary to human nature that most are repulsed.

So that gives people an excuse to live according to the flesh and actually act repulsed around another human person who has this issue? St. Francis would be appalled at this attitude…I’m sure he found leprosy extremely repulsive but he got off his horse and hugged the leper anyway because he was moved by divine love.

fix:

Aquinas has also stated that some of these sins are more offensive than others and I have posted his work here before

And, as I said above, I do not deny that homosexual acts are more grave than other mortal sins…then again, there are other sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance that no one ever talks about because they are culturally acceptable in the United States as part of “just doing business.”

Once again, I have no trouble with discussing the true gravity of homosexual acts. What I have trouble with is when people increase the gravity of homosexual acts to the extent that it’s almost the worst possible sin ever. I’m sorry but I would definitely classify child molestation, rape, murder, mass murder, abortion, etc. as far worse than homosexual acts.

 

[st_julie]

This seems the best place to ask this question. Last week or so Vision TV had a little blurb on “gay” priests. The one priest they interviewed identified himself as a gay priest. He also said he lives a celebate life even though he has left the priesthood and lives like a monk with an ex-nun who identified herself as a lesbian. She also lives a celebate life.

Is the word gay being misused or has the definition broadened now.
Tx st julie

 

[LCMS_No_More]

st julie:

Is the word gay being misused or has the definition broadened now.

I believe it is. Gay is to homosexual as Catholic is to Christian. In other words, as all gay persons are homosexual, not all homosexual persons are gay just as all Catholics are Christians but not all Christians are Catholic.

As far as I’m concerned “gay” means a homosexual person who is sexually active and intends to remain so and to promote “gay rights” such as “gay marriage” and “gay” adoption.

While a new Christian can still identify as “gay” out of ignorance, if they are sincere and honest in their walk before the Lord, they will soon find themselves at a crossroads where they will be forced to make a choice…am I “gay” or am I Christian.

 

[st_julie]

Thanks for your answer LCMS etc. I have often wondered if there was a greater spiritual and fraternal support in the past to remain celibate and chaste.

st julie

 

[fix]

LCMS_No_More:

You’ll get no argument from me. What I’m talking about is people diminishing the gravity of other mortal sins to the extent that they appear venial compared to a single homosexual THOUGHT, let alone action.

Agreed

So that gives people an excuse to live according to the flesh and actually act repulsed around another human person who has this issue? St. Francis would be appalled at this attitude…I’m sure he found leprosy extremely repulsive but he got off his horse and hugged the leper anyway because he was moved by divine love.

No one said anything about persons,my post specifically mentioned acts.

And, as I said above, I do not deny that homosexual acts are more grave than other mortal sins…then again, there are other sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance that no one ever talks about because they are culturally acceptable in the United States as part of “just doing business.”

Straw man.

Once again, I have no trouble with discussing the true gravity of homosexual acts. What I have trouble with is when people increase the gravity of homosexual acts to the extent that it’s almost the worst possible sin ever. I’m sorry but I would definitely classify child molestation, rape, murder, mass murder, abortion, etc. as far worse than homosexual acts.

I do not see that as a major probelm, I see the opposite as a bigger issue. Too many minimize the behavior.

 

[fix]

m134e5:

You are entitled to your opinion, but I am curious…what don’t you agree with what the founder of Courage has said?

Another poster posted a link that gave Fr. Harvey’s views on ordination of men with SSA and I disagree with him. I can search for the post if you are interested.

We must not be ‘over solicitous’ or we’ll never get any substantial messages across. Just make sure people understand that the person themselves is not an abomination before God- the temptations which they cannot help do not affect their status in God’s eyes. Many (maybe most?) in the gay community have had bad experiences with churches.

Let us stop right here. Many times I have seen the CC teaching presented in a non confrontational way only to hear the “gays” claim hate speach. This is happening right now in Canada. The drama of one’s upbringing in no way justifies distorting reality. The issue is not only presenting the truth with charity, it may mean some folks need mental health therapy before they can accept reality.

The way many preachers- especially protestant fundamentalists, and because they’re so ‘loud’ that’s the only brand of Christianity many people see, they think that’s what they all think- and those who are raised in it believe that the version of God they grew up hearing about- the angry God who will send them to hell unless they are not homosexual (no distinction clearly made between attractions and lust/actions) is the true God- so they leave- but not out of rebelliousness- out of shame.

Perhaps in some cases that may be true, but we live in a sophisticated world and a world that is full of propaganda. How would it sound if one claimed all minorities were criminals because one grow up around criminal minorities? I do not believe most of those who call themselves gay are that dense. I do think many practice agit prop and many have a distorted view of reality. The answer is not more watered down truth mislabeled as charity.

Yes- the ‘gay’ activists have set the tone for themselves…but why do you think they did? Sure, some of them simply wanted to be rebellious, but I bet most grew up in Christian homes and were told homosexuality was an abomination before God- and that thoughts may as well be actions- and that attractions and thoughts were the same.

Again, I disagree. You are blaming their behavior on others.

Perception is everything.

No, it is not. Faulty perception is pathology, or due to a hard heart from unrepentent sin. If one thinks an apple is cat they have a probelm and the problem is not a lack of charity from the one correcting them.

It doesn’t matter if their fear is legitimate or not- it exists- plain and simple.

If it exists it is pathology or more propaganda. The gays have more acceptance in this culture than those who reject the behavior.

What is the Christian answer to this situation? Is it "tough luck for you-

A false charge. No one is being dismissive, but some are saying that they will not brook any more propaganda.

People reach out to scared women who are pregnant out of wedlock and are thinking of having an abortion- if people just lectured them on how wrong it was, it would only make things worse. Compassion works!

Compassion takes many forms. It is not always a type of emotionalism. Each circumstance is different.

It’s not a stereotype- it’s the truth- I’ve seen it, and so have many others- in many places- mostly in protestant fundamentalist and evangelical circles (that’s where I was raised).

Again, the drama of one’s personal story is not the entire world.

For the record, I don’t endorse the ‘gay’ community at all- I have lost people very close to me to the vanity, self pity, and moral relativism that flourishes in the ‘gay’ community. I pray for their return to the practice of their faith- and for all who are misled by one of satan’s emptiest of promises.

I agree. There are many ways to combat the problem.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

fix:

LCMS_No_More:

So that gives people an excuse to live according to the flesh and actually act repulsed around another human person who has this issue? St. Francis would be appalled at this attitude…I’m sure he found leprosy extremely repulsive but he got off his horse and hugged the leper anyway because he was moved by divine love.

No one said anything about persons,my post specifically mentioned acts.

Actually, some people right here on these boards HAVE said things about PERSONS. I’m not speaking out of my behind.

fix:

LCMS_No_More:

And, as I said above, I do not deny that homosexual acts are more grave than other mortal sins…then again, there are other sins that cry out to heaven for vengeance that no one ever talks about because they are culturally acceptable in the United States as part of “just doing business.”

Straw man.

How so?

Is it culturally acceptable to cause the outcry of the foreigner in this country? Absolutely! Foreigners (or, in today’s parlance, immigrants) are blamed for everything bad in this country and always have been. Immigrants are looked upon with suspicion and hatred by many Americans and it’s considered culturally acceptable. Just look on other threads on this very board and you’ll see posts blaming immigrants for the fall of the Republic.

Is it culturally acceptable to defraud a worker of his wages? Absolutely! Companies like Walmart and Taco Bell do it ALL THE TIME and little is said of done about it. People still buy things from those establishments with no pangs of conscious whatsoever.

Does that diminish the gravity of homosexual acts? By no means! God forbid!

 

[fix]

LCMS_No_More:

Actually, some people right here on these boards HAVE said things about PERSONS. I’m not speaking out of my behind.

If folks are saying as you claim then I agree with you and condemn those words.

How so?

Is it culturally acceptable to cause the outcry of the foreigner in this country? Absolutely! Foreigners (or, in today’s parlance, immigrants) are blamed for everything bad in this country and always have been. Immigrants are looked upon with suspicion and hatred by many Americans and it’s considered culturally acceptable. Just look on other threads on this very board and you’ll see posts blaming immigrants for the fall of the Republic.

Is it culturally acceptable to defraud a worker of his wages? Absolutely! Companies like Walmart and Taco Bell do it ALL THE TIME and little is said of done about it. People still buy things from those establishments with no pangs of conscious whatsoever.

Does that diminish the gravity of homosexual acts? By no means! God forbid!

My point is we are speaking of the homosexual debate, not these other sins that also cry out to heaven. If there are other issues then start a thread about them.

 

[PiusXIII]

LCMS_No_More:

There you go again, putting words in my mouth. Keep your hands out of my mouth! I don’t know where they’ve been. I’m talking about an attitude…an issue of the heart. Do you want to see homosexual persons come to Christ, repent and have life or do you gleefully hope that all of us go straight to hell? THAT’S what I’m talking about.

What is the best way to get them to repent, to get healed of their gayness and come to Christ?

 

[RC_Traditional]

I would remind them that it is a state of mortal sin objectively as it one of the 4 sins that cry out for God’s vengeance, it is an abomination and the direct result of drug use as well as an immoral life. Then I would say repent, avoid the occasion of sin and go on a retreat preferably an Ignatian retreat with a retreat master who is an expert in guiding souls to Christ’s forgiveness, mercy and love shown through the sacraments he lovingly instituted. These Spitritual Exercises are available from SSPX priests which I had the privilege of attending 7 times in the last 15 years. Deo gratias! Oh and if you have a history of homosexuality you will be blocked from being accepted in the religious orders or priesthood through the SSPX. They do have a VERY thorough application process.