The horrible lack of protection in U.S prsions

[Jake21]

Humanity lacks in our prisons. A huge amount of assault and murder that takes place in this advanced country’s prisons is both preventable and disgusting. We shouldn’t be surprised since most of our prisons only have a handful of corecction officers per every few 100 inmates. If they see a decent sized fight take place, which is rare, they call in a team which usually arrive after some serious injuries occur. I believe that any one who has a decent moral compass and a sense of humanity should support significantly more correction officers who are armed with a sufficient amount of non lethal weapons. Imagine if every single area in the prison had multiple guards 24/7 armed with personalized assault weapons and pistols that fire rubber bullets, tasers, batons, and pepper spray. By the way, when I say “personalized” guns I mean technologically advanced guns that only fire in the hands of the officer. Anyway, if this was a reality in our prisons, then no inmate in their right mind would attack another inmate unless he was in the mood to revive some very nasty bruises from some non lethal rubber bullets. I don’t see why the rate of violence wouldn’t dramatically decrease if this was the case. I sincerely hope that you guys will make use of the Catholic Churches teaching on physical self defence and the defence of others and encourage some serious prison reform for the sake of humanity and safety of our guards and prisoners. The teaching of loving your enemy’s is also relevant when examining this issue in the U.S. prisons. I feel that there is such a disgusting lack of love and sympathy for these inmates. I could care less how horrible there crime was. NO ONE DESERVES THIS LACK OF PROTECTION! PERIOD.

 

[Porknpie]

Humanity lacks in our prisons. A huge amount of assault and murder that takes place in this advanced country’s prisons is both preventable and disgusting. We shouldn’t be surprised since most of our prisons only have a handful of corecction officers per every few 100 inmates. If they see a decent sized fight take place, which is rare, they call in a team which usually arrive after some serious injuries occur. I believe that any one who has a decent moral compass and a sense of humanity should support significantly more correction officers who are armed with a sufficient amount of non lethal weapons. Imagine if every single area in the prison had multiple guards 24/7 armed with personalized assault weapons and pistols that fire rubber bullets, tasers, batons, and pepper spray. By the way, when I say “personalized” guns I mean technologically advanced guns that only fire in the hands of the officer. Anyway, if this was a reality in our prisons, then no inmate in their right mind would attack another inmate unless he was in the mood to revive some very nasty bruises from some non lethal rubber bullets. I don’t see why the rate of violence wouldn’t dramatically decrease if this was the case. I sincerely hope that you guys will make use of the Catholic Churches teaching on physical self defence and the defence of others and encourage some serious prison reform for the sake of humanity and safety of our guards and prisoners. The teaching of loving your enemy’s is also relevant when examining this issue in the U.S. prisons. I feel that there is such a disgusting lack of love and sympathy for these inmates. I could care less how horrible there crime was. NO ONE DESERVES THIS LACK OF PROTECTION! PERIOD.

Jake, it’s hard to disagree with you. But one question: how much more in taxes are you willing to pay per year, to make this a reality? You don’t have to answer this…it’s more rhetorical.

It’s all about money. A number of states are completely broke as it is…

 

[Petaro]

The difficulty is the cost of manning prisons for the safety of inmates. Manning of prisons is based on keeping the prisoners inside and the rest of us safe. America imprisons more citizens than most other nations. I have been on management teams of private prisons in Australia and manning is based on ensuring the worst prisoners have as little freedom within the prison as possible. You can lock down an individual for up to 23 hours with one hour individual exercise, but the morality of this regime for any significant time is questionable although it is policy in many prisons.
You must remember that you are dealing with the worst humanity can produce and keeping them in walled prisons such as in America is very difficult without acting out incidents that can be fatal.

The job of prison authorities is to protect the officers, thus the trained squads.
I have often recommended the use of open prisons to be developed in the middle of the bush in Australia. No walls, just 15,000 kms of desert to persuade the prisoners to stay. A nominal double wall of razor wire supported by a roving dog squad. Manning cut to the minimum. Gets a bit hot, but prison was not meant to be easy. Internal security could be managed through key card access based on privileges earned.

I admire your concern, however the real world has little time for expensive manning. Who protects the officers?

 

[St_Francis]

One of the major problems is that people who work in prisons become hardened. Even if it’s not a real prison, as this Sandford U experiment showed. The 2-week experiment was canceled after only 6 days because of the deterioration of the people involved in it.

In prisons it just goes on and on…

 

[Jake21]

Jake, it’s hard to disagree with you. But one question: how much more in taxes are you willing to pay per year, to make this a reality? You don’t have to answer this…it’s more rhetorical.

It’s all about money. A number of states are completely broke as it is…

I sure hope that Americans will be willing to sacrifice a decent amount of tax paying dollars for the sake of humanity and safety for our millions of fellow humans in prison. I also hope that we can all come together to push the media to give this issue more attention in order to make politicians more aware.

 

[PolarGuy]

Jake, your posts boil own to “let’s throw (other people’s) money at a problem.”

I’m not sure I even know what you contend the problem is: inmate on inmate violence? Abuse of guards? Prison conditions? Prisons aren’t loving enough?

We can go into specifics of this issue - including your incredible statement that you don’t care what crime the inmates committed - later, but it boils down to “this issue” apparently being your pet cause and your wanting taxpayer dollars to solve it.

 

[Theo520]

The primary purpose of prisons is to protect society from the prisoners. The personalized assault weapons you describe don’t exist in practicality.

 

[Jake21]

Jake, your posts boil own to “let’s throw (other people’s) money at a problem.”

I’m not sure I even know what you contend the problem is: inmate on inmate violence? Abuse of guards? Prison conditions? Prisons aren’t loving enough?

We can go into specifics of this issue - including your incredible statement that you don’t care what crime the inmates committed - later, but it boils down to “this issue” apparently being your pet cause and your wanting taxpayer dollars to solve it.

The issue I am talking about here is inmate on inmate violence and inmate on guard violence. I am personally willing to pay a huge amount of taxpayer dollars so we can have more guards with more non lethal weapons to protect themselves and inmates from violence. I hope you and many others are willing to do the same for the sake of protecting several prisoners and guards lives. Yes PolarGuy, believe it or not, I personaly believe that no one on the face of this earth deserves to be tortured with a ridiculous lack of protection regardless of how despicable there crime was.

 

[mikekle]

One of the major problems is that people who work in prisons become hardened. Even if it’s not a real prison, as this Sandford U experiment showed. The 2-week experiment was canceled after only 6 days because of the deterioration of the people involved in it.

In prisons it just goes on and on…

YES, I watched a special about that experiment, it was pretty surprising how quick those in authority became almost cruel…yet what happened as a result of this…NOTHING??

I cant imagine what goes on inside prisons that we DO NOT get to hear about.

Prisons are HUGE moneymakers for some, that right there is the problem.

Really, I think the UN should get involved and look into this, when a nation imprisons MUCH more percentage than any other nation on the planet, something should tell them they need to look into this…but look where the UN has its headquarters, not in some neutral country like it should be, Im pretty confident a crimes against humanity charge could be brought if more saw the real conditions in US prisons.

 

[PolarGuy]

Many people here are spouting off without real knowledge of the problem.

Mikekle: crimes against humanity for what happens in US prisons? The same prisons where prisoners misuse the courts by filing lawsuits because their free sneakers are Adidas and not Nike? The prisons where the prisoners get free access to law libraries so they can pursue these suits, or baselessly sue the prosecutors who prosecuted them?

Yet nary a word about, say, Russian or Chinese political prisons or the prison climates in places like the Middle East or Eastern Europe - or God forbid North Korea, where families are jailed or killed for (alleged) crimes committed by family members.

I can only say this with what respect I can muster: your post displays ignorance of reality vis a vis US prisons and those of the rest of the world.

 

[exnihilo]

I agree our prisons are a shame. One problem is there has never been a solution to the problem of quis custodiet ipsos custodes?

Jake, it’s hard to disagree with you. But one question: how much more in taxes are you willing to pay per year, to make this a reality? You don’t have to answer this…it’s more rhetorical.

It’s all about money. A number of states are completely broke as it is…

You are right we have money problems. But one of the few supposedly essential functions of the state is to protect the people via a justice system. If after all we pay in taxes they can’t even do that then we have much bigger problems.

 

[ALoveDivine]

I’d like to see us totally overhaul the entire prison system. Stop treating inmates like animals and stop using prison for vindictive purposes. Prison should be to separate dangerous criminals from the rest of society, not to inflict suffering on them. This vengeance mentality needs to be done away with and replaced with a mentality of compassion.

Imagine prisons where you had a small but decent living space, decent food, adequate security, safe exercise, and decent work opportunities, as well as educational and some recreational opportunities. A humanitarian prison. It would still mean a lack of freedom and it would mean discipline and structure, but it would be in keeping with the dignity of the human person.

How any Catholic could oppose such a proposal is beyond me, given the emphasis of the church on human dignity and compassion.

 

[Jake21]

I’d like to see us totally overhaul the entire prison system. Stop treating inmates like animals and stop using prison for vindictive purposes. Prison should be to separate dangerous criminals from the rest of society, not to inflict suffering on them. This vengeance mentality needs to be done away with and replaced with a mentality of compassion.

Imagine prisons where you had a small but decent living space, decent food, adequate security, safe exercise, and decent work opportunities, as well as educational and some recreational opportunities. A humanitarian prison. It would still mean a lack of freedom and it would mean discipline and structure, but it would be in keeping with the dignity of the human person.

How any Catholic could oppose such a proposal is beyond me, given the emphasis of the church on human dignity and compassion.

Thank you!! I’m glad to see someone agree with me on this serious issue. I just really wish the media and politicians would give this issue much more attention.

 

[Rence]

This thread just supports the notion that the following is a laughable claim: “capital punishment is no longer needed today because we have adequate prisons to contain criminals”. We most certainly do not.

 

[ALoveDivine]

This thread just supports the notion that the following is a laughable claim: “capital punishment is no longer needed today because we have adequate prisons to contain criminals”. We most certainly do not.

Perhaps. Nevertheless, if anyone is truly pro-life I don’t see how its possible to support capital punishment. If you are pro-life you must be pro-life consistently. That means no abortion, no abortifacient contraception, no capital punishment, and no violence of any kind except in self-defense or to protect innocent life.

The Holy Father himself agrees with me here. Regardless of the state of our prison system, capital punishment needs to be abolished yesterday.

 

[Jake21]

Perhaps. Nevertheless, if anyone is truly pro-life I don’t see how its possible to support capital punishment. If you are pro-life you must be pro-life consistently. That means no abortion, no abortifacient contraception, no capital punishment, and no violence of any kind except in self-defense or to protect innocent life.

The Holy Father himself agrees with me here. Regardless of the state of our prison system, capital punishment needs to be abolished yesterday.

Capital punishment in my opinion is immoral and unnecessary. What we need is multiple prison guards that are armed with a variety of non lethal weapons in rooms and outdoor areas where prisoners are present. If this was a reality then they could protect both themselves and other inmates from violence in a more efficient manner.

 

[BornInMarch]

America’s Prison System is a National Disgrace.

Rape, poor medical care (many prisoners die for no other reason than that the prison can not or will not treat them), food that couldn’t pass an FDA test, and unfairly long sentences (nobody young adult should be behind bars until retirement age over a low-level drug charge) define a convict’s life within prison.

High recidivism, judgmental and unforgiving employers, housing restrictions, being deprived of that most basic of civic rights (voting), and being an easy target for opportunistic politicians define a convict’s life outside of prison.

Unless we develop a system that treats convicts as normal humans who made mistakes, and that places more value on rehabilitation/redemption than on punishment, then we will continue to live in a world of high recidivism.

There’s a reason Jesus explicitly says to be merciful on prisoners: it is because they need looking after the most.

[41 “Then he will say to those on his left, ‘Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.’

44 “They also will answer, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?’

45 “He will reply, ‘Truly I tell you, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.’ ] - Matthew 25:31-46

 

[pnewton]

I believe that any one who has a decent moral compass and a sense of humanity should support significantly more correction officers who are armed with a sufficient amount of non lethal weapons. Imagine if every single area in the prison had multiple guards 24/7 armed with personalized assault weapons and pistols that fire rubber bullets, tasers, batons, and pepper spray.

There is no such thing as a nonlethal weapon. The correct term is less than lethal, because in the wrong circumstance, all of these weapons can result in death, though it is rare. So, if the use of less than lethal weapons increases, then the deaths from them will also increase.

I do not doubt that there are many areas of reform that prisons need, starting with the problem of us vying with the most evil nations in the world today for the highest incarceration rate, the use of prisons for the mentally ill, and mandatory sentencing. Drop the amount of people in prison, violence drops accordingly, although to do this we would have to direct money to mental health treatment and drug rehabilitation, and basically accept the some people want to ruin their lives with drugs and we are powerless over their choice.

I do believe the understanding of violence in jails and prisons is overblown. It has gotten to the point that the homicide rate in prisons is less than that outside in many areas.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2013/06/murder_rate_in_prison_is_it_safer_to_be_jailed_than_free.html

Prison sexual assault does occur, but more guards may not be the answer, since inmate on inmate sexual assault seems to have dropped below guard on inmate.
hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape
Note this last article is from 2007, prior to implementation of the Prison Rape Elimination Act.

I have seen far more lies about violence in prison than truth. Most of the stories we here that boil our blood are from friends and relatives, or from news based on inmate’s story. Most I have heard are simply, flat-out, lies, designed to gain some advantage, from either the state or the family. In fact, my own experience has been about one in five stories of violence have some kernel of truth, though always exaggerated, and only one story in 30 years of inmate on inmate sexual assault, maybe 3 of officer on inmate sex incidents out of hundreds has been true.

 

[exnihilo]

Perhaps. Nevertheless, if anyone is truly pro-life I don’t see how its possible to support capital punishment. If you are pro-life you must be pro-life consistently. That means no abortion, no abortifacient contraception, no capital punishment, and no violence of any kind except in self-defense or to protect innocent life.

The Holy Father himself agrees with me here. Regardless of the state of our prison system, capital punishment needs to be abolished yesterday.

It is not inconsistent the support the death penalty. It can be a just punishment. It protects men from further crimes, particularly violent crimes, by eliminating the source of all crime, a man with criminal intent. The death penalty can be used to protect innocent life.

I do not doubt that there are many areas of reform that prisons need, starting with the problem of us vying with the most evil nations in the world today for the highest incarceration rate, the use of prisons for the mentally ill, and mandatory sentencing. Drop the amount of people in prison, violence drops accordingly, although to do this we would have to direct money to mental health treatment and drug rehabilitation, and basically accept the some people want to ruin their lives with drugs and we are powerless over their choice.

I don’t think it is any contest. The US is by far and away the biggest jailer on the planet. Unless something has changed no one else is close in absolute numbers or rates.

 

[Jake21]

There is no such thing as a nonlethal weapon. The correct term is less than lethal, because in the wrong circumstance, all of these weapons can result in death, though it is rare. So, if the use of less than lethal weapons increases, then the deaths from them will also increase.

I do not doubt that there are many areas of reform that prisons need, starting with the problem of us vying with the most evil nations in the world today for the highest incarceration rate, the use of prisons for the mentally ill, and mandatory sentencing. Drop the amount of people in prison, violence drops accordingly, although to do this we would have to direct money to mental health treatment and drug rehabilitation, and basically accept the some people want to ruin their lives with drugs and we are powerless over their choice.

I do believe the understanding of violence in jails and prisons is overblown. It has gotten to the point that the homicide rate in prisons is less than that outside in many areas.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2013/06/murder_rate_in_prison_is_it_safer_to_be_jailed_than_free.html

Prison sexual assault does occur, but more guards may not be the answer, since inmate on inmate sexual assault seems to have dropped below guard on inmate.
hrw.org/news/2007/12/15/us-federal-statistics-show-widespread-prison-rape
Note this last article is from 2007, prior to implementation of the Prison Rape Elimination Act.

I have seen far more lies about violence in prison than truth. Most of the stories we here that boil our blood are from friends and relatives, or from news based on inmate’s story. Most I have heard are simply, flat-out, lies, designed to gain some advantage, from either the state or the family. In fact, my own experience has been about one in five stories of violence have some kernel of truth, though always exaggerated, and only one story in 30 years of inmate on inmate sexual assault, maybe 3 of officer on inmate sex incidents out of hundreds has been true.

You are right about how weapons should be considered less then lethal. This is because there are extremely rare occurrences where they cause death. With that being said, there is still an insufficient amount of protection in our prisons. Like I said earlier, a lot of our prisons only have a handful of correction officers for every few hundred inmates. If a small fight breaks out then it’s rare for the COs to even catch them fighting. If a decent fight breaks out, then they send in a team but they usually arrive after injuries have already occurred. What we desperately need are more guards armed with a variety of less then lethal weapons all around the prisons that will undeniably make an inmate think twice before assaulting another inmate.