The human mind is not limited by the brain and can even exist outside of it

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Pag_Hingowa

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Strongly Agree
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Please discuss or show evidence to support your answer.
 
Strongly Agree
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No preference
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Please discuss or show evidence to support your answer.
Of the choices you offer, ‘Strongly Disagree’ comes closest, but ‘Utter Nonsense’ would be more accurate.

The only reason anyone is aware of anything is the electrical activity in the brain, which stops soon after death.

As a metaphysical concept, ‘the human mind’ is a phrase open to a wide range of interpretation.
 
I think you’ll have to pass your trial membership before participating in polls. You have enough posts - just wait a couple more weeks.

To answer your question I’ll have to make an assumption: that by “mind” you mean the spiritual soul.

If that is the case, then yes, the spirit/mind continues to exist after the death of the body. However, the human person is not complete without a physical body, as well. That is why there will be a physical Resurrection at the end of the world.
 
Your “human mind” is an informational process, that requires a physical head to live in.

With death, or even a hard knock on the skull, the process would halt. That is why God (who started the process for each of us) has provided a pneumatikon soma in eternity. The human version of distributed processing.

ICXC NIKA
 
Strongly Agree
Somewhat agree
No preference
Somewhat disagree
Strongly disagree

Please discuss or show evidence to support your answer.
As a psychologist, I somewhat agree that the psychological mind is not limited by the biological brain. We have interesting case studies–one involving the autopsy of the brain of a 100-year-old nun–in which the brain has all the hallmark signs of Alzheimer’s disease but the individual was still functioning normally up to the point of death. And anecdotal evidence tells of people whose brain and body have degenerated yet sheer willpower enables them to continue living so that they can attend, for example, the marriage or graduation of their child. The opposite also has occurred, in which people lack the will to live and do indeed die even though their brain is functioning normally. There is evidence of this in the animal kingdom where we have found that baby chimps who have lost their mother die of a broken heart despite being otherwise healthy. We also know that when parts of the brain have been damaged, it is sometimes possible for other parts to compensate by taking over the functioning of the damaged parts. This is not to say one can live without a brain, especially the hindbrain which controls vital life functions. At the same time, however, the normal functioning of the brain may, at times, not be sufficient for sustaining life, and furthermore the abnormal functioning of the brain is not always restrictive of normal life functioning.
 
I’d like to think the brain and mind are entities as separate as a computer and a computer user.
 
A woman in my city underwent drastic surgery. The neurosurgeon and his team reduced her temp to near freezing. They emptied her body of blood. She was flatlined completely – no brain activity, no heart function – she was, by every medical definition, “dead.” Following a very delicate and difficult brain surgery, the processes were reversed and she was restored to life – heart pumping, brain waves seen on the monitors, etc. In recovery, she reported to the neurosurgeon what she had experienced – she watched the operation, heard the conversation and was able to repeat it, went on a journey. Obviously, her “mind” – her “ultimate reality.” her “self” – what would be the correct term? – functioned apart from her body. The physician said the medical profession needs a new definition of “dead.”

I saw this on a TV report of Near Death Experiences.

Jim Dandy
 
Since the power of the mind transcends physical laws and the brain is limited by physical laws the mind is independent and not limited by the brain.
 
A woman in my city underwent drastic surgery. The neurosurgeon and his team reduced her temp to near freezing. They emptied her body of blood. She was flatlined completely – no brain activity, no heart function – she was, by every medical definition, “dead.” Following a very delicate and difficult brain surgery, the processes were reversed and she was restored to life – heart pumping, brain waves seen on the monitors, etc. In recovery, she reported to the neurosurgeon what she had experienced – she watched the operation, heard the conversation and was able to repeat it, went on a journey. Obviously, her “mind” – her “ultimate reality.” her “self” – what would be the correct term? – functioned apart from her body. The physician said the medical profession needs a new definition of “dead.”

I saw this on a TV report of Near Death Experiences.

Jim Dandy
It will be interesting to see how materialists try to explain that!
 
As a psychologist, I somewhat agree that the psychological mind is not limited by the biological brain. We have interesting case studies–one involving the autopsy of the brain of a 100-year-old nun–in which the brain has all the hallmark signs of Alzheimer’s disease but the individual was still functioning normally up to the point of death.
There is such a thing as asymptomatic Alzheimer’s Disease. It is widely believed (or at least suspected) that the development and maintenance of strong cognitive skills throughout life (aka exercising the grey matter) makes one more resilient. Try to google/Wikipedia - cognitive reserve
And anecdotal evidence tells of people whose brain and body have degenerated yet sheer willpower enables them to continue living so that they can attend, for example, the marriage or graduation of their child. The opposite also has occurred, in which people lack the will to live and do indeed die even though their brain is functioning normally. There is evidence of this in the animal kingdom where we have found that baby chimps who have lost their mother die of a broken heart despite being otherwise healthy.
When fish get stressed (often because of other fish) they can die, even when they are otherwise healthy. No-one doubts that there is a significant link between the mind/brain and the body. It’s an interconnected physical system, so of course one part effects the other.
We also know that when parts of the brain have been damaged, it is sometimes possible for other parts to compensate by taking over the functioning of the damaged parts.
I’m not sure how does this support your own contention. It would more aptly be characterized as an argument against it.
This is not to say one can live without a brain, especially the hindbrain which controls vital life functions.
I agree with this.
At the same time, however, the normal functioning of the brain may, at times, not be sufficient for sustaining life,
People die of heart attacks and other non-brain related trauma all the time.
and furthermore the abnormal functioning of the brain is not always restrictive of normal life functioning.
Again, please google/wikipedia - cognitive reserve
 
Strongly Agree
Somewhat agree
No preference
Somewhat disagree
Strongly disagree

Please discuss or show evidence to support your answer.
I am going to go with “Strongly Agree” and support it by pointing out that a material mind would be as subject to deterministic nature of the universe as a computer chip. Free Will demonstrates that our minds are not material.
 
I am going to go with “Strongly Agree” and support it by pointing out that a material mind would be as subject to deterministic nature of the universe as a computer chip. Free Will demonstrates that our minds are not material.
That is not necessarily so. Daniel Dennett argues that what we think of as free will has evolved and that it works conceptually if it is something which is the product of causes and not something outside of causality. There is no ‘unmoved mover’ sitting there in our heads. Having a material brain which is responsible for perception, thought and consciousness does not mean that we are like unintelligent computer chips. We learn to avoid/opt for things and to make decisions, like software with an ability to self-programme along pre-defined routes. I’d say look at his Freedom Evolves, it explains things a lot better than I can and is fascinating.
 
That is not necessarily so. Daniel Dennett argues that what we think of as free will has evolved and that it works conceptually if it is something which is the product of causes and not something outside of causality. There is no ‘unmoved mover’ sitting there in our heads. Having a material brain which is responsible for perception, thought and consciousness does not mean that we are like unintelligent computer chips. We learn to avoid/opt for things and to make decisions, like software with an ability to self-programme along pre-defined routes. I’d say look at his Freedom Evolves, it explains things a lot better than I can and is fascinating.
Theories of free will that depend on material in a deterministic universe always fail to account for thermodynamics. Namely, given the starting state of a system one can determine the state of that system at any point along the trajectory of its existence. Therefore, a snapshot of every particle in the universe now could be determined from a prior snapshot and vice versa. So if the current snapshot of the universe is coherent, the starting state of the universe is coherent. The point being that if we have a coherent picture of the universe that seems to include free will, then either we really do have free will, or every single particle in the universe has randomly, by chance been in a position to form a coherent snapshot for the entirety of the existence of the universe, for no reason. Considering the numbers of particles and the resulting permutations, it seems much more likely that we simply have free will as it appears to us all. That’s my opinion on arguments against free will.
 
Daniel Dennett attempts to demonstrate a scientific basis to the kind of free will we think we have. You’re saying either it’s fake and just a chance pattern or we do have free will? He agrees we do! The difference is what free will is and how it works, and the arguments are that not only can it arise from a material thing, but that the way it can is the best way to maintain the basis of morality - namely via determinism rather than something else.
 
Theories of free will that depend on material in a deterministic universe always fail to account for thermodynamics. Namely, given the starting state of a system one can determine the state of that system at any point along the trajectory of its existence. Therefore, a snapshot of every particle in the universe now could be determined from a prior snapshot and vice versa.
Apart from the fact that the more you know about position, the less you know about velocity, or something similar - quantum indeterminacy. And what if the most complete picture possible can only give you a quite precise set of possibilities after 10s, a fuzzy one after 10mins and one with a high tolerance of error after 10 years? What if the picture included the fact that ‘free will’ multiplies up the possible arrangements of atoms tremendously? It would still work, I think, to see determinism like this.
 
I read once about an idiot child (in the medical sense) being cured at Lourdes and the doctors wondered if his brain was transformed or if he now “thought with a brain that should not think”. Interesting question.

catholicpamphlets.net/pamphlets/A%20Protestant%20Looks%20at%20Lourdes.pdf

I’d agree with the poster above regarding the computer analogy where the material world is real in our time and space but is not the ultimate reality. Some part of us i would say belongs to the ultimate reality although we live in this secondary created reality and are subject to it, at least for now.
 
Since the power of the mind transcends physical laws
Can you explain what you mean by this statement? I have a hunch this is going to turn into a claim requiring some rather fantastic evidence so please do come prepared.
and the brain is limited by physical laws
That it is, or a better way to express it is the brain is enabled by “physical laws”.
the mind is independent and not limited by the brain.
That would be a demonstrably false claim, IMO. 🤷
 
Shelly Kagan of Yale University did a course on death (Phil 176). They recorded all 25 lectures of the course (45-50 minutes each) and made it available on YouTube.

It sounds like a morbid topic for a class, but the course actually isn’t. Among other things questions like this are explored. Yes, 20 hours of lectures is a lot. But I got through them in about 3 days listening to them while I worked.
 
…You’re saying either it’s fake and just a chance pattern or we do have free will? …
That’s about the size of it. Given the number of particles and the possible permutations, a randomly coherent universe, perfectly faking free will, moment by moment for billions of people is simply ludicrous.
 
Apart from the fact that the more you know about position, the less you know about velocity, or something similar - quantum indeterminacy. And what if the most complete picture possible can only give you a quite precise set of possibilities after 10s, a fuzzy one after 10mins and one with a high tolerance of error after 10 years? What if the picture included the fact that ‘free will’ multiplies up the possible arrangements of atoms tremendously? It would still work, I think, to see determinism like this.
See above.
 
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