The Idle Tale - Luke 24:11

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I will accept that mine is an argument of assumptions after you prove to me the Ascension of Mary.
Let’s not derail this thread. If you want to discuss the assumption of Mary, then start a new thread. However, since you have made these claims without proof, and you are the OP, it is incumbent upon you to provide proof for your claims.
 
You mean the one that is titled My Opinion: No Piercing At Jesus’ Side? It is your opinion and, yes, I believe you are entitled to your opinion and beliefs - as am I.
**I don’t know who added the expression “My Opinion.” Perhaps the Moderator. The title was only “No Piercing At Jesus’ Side.” Although it is indeed my opinion based on logical evidences.

Ben: :)**
 
Let’s not derail this thread. If you want to discuss the assumption of Mary, then start a new thread. However, since you have made these claims without proof, and you are the OP, it is incumbent upon you to provide proof for your claims.
**I didn’t get you! You want me to prove that the ascension of Mary did not happen? How can I prove what did not happen? I have always heard that’s church tradition. I was told here that what I say is not verifiable. Then I brought up this church tradition as also something that cannot be verifiable. That’s all. Therefore, it’s your turn to prove a church tradition.

Ben: :confused:**
 
**They are. Albeit nominally, they are. One loses his or her Jewishness when he or she confesses loyalty to another religion. Jewishness is not ethnicity. It can be lost in more than one way.

Ben: 😊**
So, a Jew who becomes a Buddhist wouldbe wrong to still call himself a Jew?
 
**I do apologize. I thought I was rather saying something funny. If you took as an offense, please accept my apologies. It won’t happen again.

Ben: 😊**
What would be funny in your eye if someone is trying to make others believe that what you said is not something a grown-up would say?
You might act in a way that it would fall on you like water on a duck’s back, but I don’t think you would find that “funny”!
 
So, a Jew who becomes a Buddhist wouldbe wrong to still call himself a Jew?
**Most definitely! Just like another who would become a Christian.
What about if you became a Jew, would you want to be called a Catholic Jew? The same thing with myself converting to Catholicism. I could not be called a Jewish Catholic. It makes sense, doesn’t it?

It reminds me of the Jews-for-Baal of the time of Elijah. They would live like pagans and would insist on being identified as Jews. Elijah proved their nonsense in a very tragic manner by slitting the throats of 450 of their prophets. (I Kings 18:19, 40)

Ben: 😊**
 
Oh, I understand it, Ben. I just read somewhere that you could be almost everything except a Christian and still be called a Jew. At least atheist Jews still are considered Jews, from what I read?
 
Today I was visited by a Christian who calls himself a “Messianic Jew.” After an hour of study about the resurrection, he got impatient with my lack of faith, and before he left he challenged me to produce the body if I couldn’t believe in Jesus’ resurrection. That’s what inspired me to share with you this topic for discussion.

Now, if we put ourselves together, and then put together whatever we can from reading the NT about the resurrection of Jesus, we will see that he did not resurrect. I would like to bring to your attention some points about that tale. Tale! Yes, and the term is not mine. I am borrowing it from Jesus’ own disciples who went even further by adding the adjective “idle.” Idle tale, they said. (Luke 24:11)

The women had reported the words of the “angel” that Jesus had resurrected. The disciples probably had never heard of such a thing. They had no choice but to discard their report as an idle tale. Now, think: If those who lived daily with Jesus, listening daily to his words, could not believe the report, how can we be expected to, after almost two thousand years of listening to a tale that just won’t get less idle?

When did the disciples ever change their minds about that idle tale? I wonder because about 30 years later, when Paul showed up in Jerusalem preaching that Jesus had resurrected, he almost got killed. Why? Was not the Sect of the Nazarenes
headquartered in Jerusalem? Yes, but that Jesus had resurrected was not in their agenda. The whole thing had been made up by Paul. Yes, all according to his gospel as he himself revealed it to his disciple Timothy. (II Tim. 2:8) Obviously, Paul needed that tale to promote his Cause, which turned out to be Christianity.

The resurrection of Jesus, therefore, can be accepted only and exclusively by faith because there is no evidence to substantiate the event. An empty tomb is no proof of resurrection. And the refusal at the time to produce the body does not diminish from the fact that the body was indeed removed from there. And the guards can never be taken as evidence of anything whatsoever, because they were set at the tomb area only late Saturday morning. The disciple who removed Jesus’ body from that tomb, most probably Joseph of Arimathea, had the whole night of Friday, and all for himself to act without any disturbance. And he did it because he had enough reasons to believe that, by not doing it, even during the hours of that Sabbath, Mary Magdalene would have done it instead, as she herself declared she would. (John 20:15) So, I wish the preachers of the resurrection would at least give Paul the credit that’s due him. (II Tim. 2:8)

Ben: 🙂
Lets read more : The women were Mary Magdalene, Joanna, and Mary the
mother of James; the others who accompanied them also told this
to the apostles,
11 but their story seemed like nonsense and they did not
believe them.
12 * But Peter got up and ran to the tomb, bent down, and
saw the burial cloths alone; then he went home amazed at what
had happened.
13 * * Now that very day two of them were going to a village

seven miles from Jerusalem called Emmaus,
14 and they were conversing about all the things that had
occurred.
15 And it happened that while they were conversing and
debating, Jesus himself drew near and walked with them,
16 * but their eyes were prevented from recognizing him.
17 He asked them, “What are you discussing as you walk
along?” They stopped, looking downcast.
18 One of them, named Cleopas, said to him in reply, "Are

you the only visitor to Jerusalem who does not know of the
things that have taken place there in these days?"
19 And he replied to them, “What sort of things?” They
said to him, "The things that happened to Jesus the Nazarene,
who was a prophet mighty in deed and word before God and all
the people,
20 how our chief priests and rulers both handed him over
to a sentence of death and crucified him.
21 But we were hoping that he would be the one to redeem

Israel; and besides all this, it is now the third day since
this took place.
22 Some women from our group, however, have astounded us:
they were at the tomb early in the morning
23 and did not find his body; they came back and reported
that they had indeed seen a vision of angels who announced that
he was alive.
24 Then some of those with us went to the tomb and found
things just as the women had described, but him they did not
see."
25 And he said to them, "Oh, how foolish you are! How
 
Oh, I understand it, Ben. I just read somewhere that you could be almost everything except a Christian and still be called a Jew. At least atheist Jews still are considered Jews, from what I read?
**There is no Atheist Jews. Never believe a Jew who has told you he or she is an Atheist. It doesn’t make sense for Jews to bring God to the nations of the world and then to declare that we are Atheists.

Ben: 🤷**
 
Yes, indeed. An Orthodox Jewish friend of mine once p(name removed by moderator)ointed that what we read about Jews from Jewish sources is mostly not from Orthodox Jews. I think you are quite confirming what she said… 😊
 
Sorry about the delay in replying. Our computer at the shelter where I work at is “caput”, I’m afraid. And it’s been about a month now… or close to. Fortunate that the Municipal Library has computers that they allow us to use!
 
Yes, indeed. An Orthodox Jewish friend of mine once p(name removed by moderator)ointed that what we read about Jews from Jewish sources is mostly not from Orthodox Jews. I think you are quite confirming what she said… 😊
**Orthodox Jews are a little too restrict in their learning. Their minds are focused only on the Torah. **
 
**I don’t know who added the expression “My Opinion.” Perhaps the Moderator. The title was only “No Piercing At Jesus’ Side.” Although it is indeed my opinion based on logical evidences.

Ben: :)**
The addition is only fitting, since it’s a Catholic forum and that the Catholic faith disagrees with that statement of yours.
 
** It reminds me of the Jews-for-Baal of the time of Elijah. They would live like pagans and would insist on being identified as Jews. Elijah proved their nonsense in a very tragic manner by slitting the throats of 450 of their prophets. (I Kings 18:19, 40)

Ben: 😊**
I just realize what you have said here… funny I didn’t notice it before! I mean, it’s not the slitting of their throats that “proved their nonsense”, but that the Lord God answered Elijah’s prayer to light Himself the fire of the sacrifice while Baal failed to answer the prayer of his 450 prophets to do the same!
 
Slitting their throats was something the people assembled there did along with Elijah and their willingness to do what Elijah told them proved that they were dissatisfied with the false teachings of the false prophets. It was in response to what had happened before their eyes.
 
Oh, I understand it, Ben. I just read somewhere that you could be almost everything except a Christian and still be called a Jew. At least atheist Jews still are considered Jews, from what I read?
**There is no such a thing as an Atheist Jew. Never believe a Jew who tells you he or she is an Atheist. He is either trying to get rid of your disturbance or he is a fool according to Pasalm 14.

How could a Jew, member of the People who brought the true Monotheistic God to Mankind be an Atheist?l No, it’s impossible. We not only brought the true God to the world, but also we have given to Mankind the Word of God.**
 
**There is no such a thing as an Atheist Jew. Never believe a Jew who tells you he or she is an Atheist. He is either trying to get rid of your disturbance or he is a fool according to Psalm 14.

How could a Jew, member of the People who brought the true Monotheistic God to Mankind be an Atheist?l No, it’s impossible. We not only brought the true God to the world, but also we have given to Mankind the Word of God.**
Maybe, but you are living in our days, while the Israelites who received the Torah and the Prophets who received messages from God as recorded in the Bible died a long time ago.
So you are not an atheist, and yet you don’t believe there is an afterlife… how strange!
 
Maybe, but you are living in our days, while the Israelites who received the Torah and the Prophets who received messages from God as recorded in the Bible died a long time ago.
So you are not an atheist, and yet you don’t believe there is an afterlife… how strange!
Lapell, forgive me but your comment above is not intelligent enough to describe your exposure to me for a while now. What on earth has belief in an afterlife to do with being Atheist? I don’t believe in afterlife because this is a doctrine that contradicts the Scriptures. I mean the Scriptures that Jesus used to handle, not your Scriptures. I am rather upholding the Scriptures when I deny the existence of an afterlife.
 
I just realize what you have said here… funny I didn’t notice it before! I mean, it’s not the slitting of their throats that “proved their nonsense”, but that the Lord God answered Elijah’s prayer to light Himself the fire of the sacrifice while Baal failed to answer the prayer of his 450 prophets to do the same!
That’s great! As I can see, you are improving.
 
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