S
Spock
Guest
I participated in several threads dealing with the catholic concept of “proper sexuality”. The posters uniformly said that any sex 1) outside marriage and 2) inside marriage, but not “open” to procreation is “gravely disordered, sinful, etc…”. I understand that this is the official catholic position, and I do not wish to argue against it - if that position is based only on religious grounds. You believe what you believe. It is no skin off my nose. Just keep your opinion to yourself. An example would be: the religious person believes that those practices endanger the practitioner’s “immortal soul”. Even in that case they are not welcome to give that opinion unless specifically asked for it.
The problematic part is when the posters wish to argue on secular, rational grounds. They say that masturbation, sex outside marriage or sex inside marriage but not open to procreation (active contraception or extra-vaginal ejaculation) are harmful either to the person(s) involved or to some third parties. Of course what is “harmful” is debatable. Simply not liking what other people do is not “harm”. Even if such practices harmfully affect the practitoners - but only them! - that alleged harm is none of your business.
If they can show that such practices harmfully affect some third parties, in that case they can legitimately express their concern, even when not asked for it. But I have never seen a valid argument along those lines. Some posters say that the general acceptance of masturbation, of homosexual sex, of contraception, of extravaginal ejaculation are “harmful” to society. How are they harmful? Is there any physical harm? In the old times the deeply religious do-gooders loved to lie to the adolescents and asserted that masturbation
). Or that openly accepted promisculity will lead to less stable marriages… etc… what nonsense.
When I see these “concerns” I am wondering just what society did these posters come from? Is it possible that they were born in some ideal world, where children never touched their own genitals to learn that it is a rather pleasant experience, where adolescents never masturbated, where everyone waited until their wedding night for their first experience, where there was no divorce, no adultery? When every act of sex was performed with being “open” to procreation? Which planet is that?
Surely it cannot be Earth, where people practised some type of contraception since times immemorial, where the “oldest profession” was sex for money, where the prototypes of those beautiful Greek statues practiced the highest form of brotherly love - called gay sex these days. Where adultery was rampant in every age, though not always admitted, where males kept mistresses, and women had fun with the gardeners and with each other (island of Lesbos, anyone?).
And despite (or maybe because of) these activities society did not crumble into nothingness. Indeed it is more “open” these days, but also from time immemorial the conservatives were complaining and moaning about the deteriorating “morals” - in each and every generation; remember Cicero’s “O tempora, o mores?”. The members of the older generation are not able to practise sex any more, so they spend their energy complaining about what the younger ones can do. Sheer jealousy.
And sheer misconception (maybe not so immaculate) about their own era - when people did the same things, but also practised the worst kind of “sin” of all, the hypocrisy of silence.
Face reality: sex is harmless when practised without coersion, when practised out of love, when practised with the desire to give and to receive. As such their practice does not concern you. Can you prove me wrong? Can you show that the natural practice of sex is somehow harmful to you? After all you are a memebr of the society, if it is harmful to you - personally, then maybe it is harmful to society as well. But if it is not harmful to you, you have no right or reason to complain and disparage they practice. It is simply none of your business.
The problematic part is when the posters wish to argue on secular, rational grounds. They say that masturbation, sex outside marriage or sex inside marriage but not open to procreation (active contraception or extra-vaginal ejaculation) are harmful either to the person(s) involved or to some third parties. Of course what is “harmful” is debatable. Simply not liking what other people do is not “harm”. Even if such practices harmfully affect the practitoners - but only them! - that alleged harm is none of your business.
If they can show that such practices harmfully affect some third parties, in that case they can legitimately express their concern, even when not asked for it. But I have never seen a valid argument along those lines. Some posters say that the general acceptance of masturbation, of homosexual sex, of contraception, of extravaginal ejaculation are “harmful” to society. How are they harmful? Is there any physical harm? In the old times the deeply religious do-gooders loved to lie to the adolescents and asserted that masturbation
- will lead to blindness, or
- causes to grow hair on the palms of your hands
- leads to mental illness
- permanently reduces libido, desire, and/or sexual performance
- permanently reduces the quantity or quality of semen
which are, of course shameless lies.
). Or that openly accepted promisculity will lead to less stable marriages… etc… what nonsense.When I see these “concerns” I am wondering just what society did these posters come from? Is it possible that they were born in some ideal world, where children never touched their own genitals to learn that it is a rather pleasant experience, where adolescents never masturbated, where everyone waited until their wedding night for their first experience, where there was no divorce, no adultery? When every act of sex was performed with being “open” to procreation? Which planet is that?
Surely it cannot be Earth, where people practised some type of contraception since times immemorial, where the “oldest profession” was sex for money, where the prototypes of those beautiful Greek statues practiced the highest form of brotherly love - called gay sex these days. Where adultery was rampant in every age, though not always admitted, where males kept mistresses, and women had fun with the gardeners and with each other (island of Lesbos, anyone?).
And despite (or maybe because of) these activities society did not crumble into nothingness. Indeed it is more “open” these days, but also from time immemorial the conservatives were complaining and moaning about the deteriorating “morals” - in each and every generation; remember Cicero’s “O tempora, o mores?”. The members of the older generation are not able to practise sex any more, so they spend their energy complaining about what the younger ones can do. Sheer jealousy.
And sheer misconception (maybe not so immaculate) about their own era - when people did the same things, but also practised the worst kind of “sin” of all, the hypocrisy of silence.Face reality: sex is harmless when practised without coersion, when practised out of love, when practised with the desire to give and to receive. As such their practice does not concern you. Can you prove me wrong? Can you show that the natural practice of sex is somehow harmful to you? After all you are a memebr of the society, if it is harmful to you - personally, then maybe it is harmful to society as well. But if it is not harmful to you, you have no right or reason to complain and disparage they practice. It is simply none of your business.
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