The Importance of Fidelity to the Rubrics

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In the “orientation of the priest” thread that I began, the discussion has turned into a rather hotly contested debate on the importance of rubrics. There are some who do not seem to think that rubrics and norms are important to the point that they claim that the Mass is not the liturgy. There are others who advocate the rule of the law of prayer is the law of faith (as has been mentioned several times by Francis Cardinal Arinze and then-Cardinal Ratzinger).

The polemics behind my original thread prompted me to begin this one because there seems to be a lot of misgivings and a lot of misinformation flowing out there.

First of all, the Mass is the Holy Sacriifce. It is the most important action (work) in which we, as Catholics, partake. It was no small statement that the Council Fathers made when they said that the Mass is the “source and summit” of the life of the Church. The basic core of the Catholic Faith lies in the Paschal Mystery, which is best and most perfectly expressed in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

Okay. Let the salvos begin!
 
I think its more important to follow the guidance of the Magisterium, who are the authors of the rubrics.

Sola Rubrics over proper instruction from the Bishops, is as dangerous as protestant fundamentalist interpretation of Sacred Scripture.

Jim
 
That is all well and true. The danger, however, lies when people start becoming “creative” with the Liturgy and inventing rubrics that are not approved by the Holy See, and, when priests take it upon themselves to change the words written in the Roman Missal.

Cardinal Arinze has said this many times (and is constantly reaffirmed by documents issued by the Holy See) that no one, not the priest, not the bishop, has any right to change the words in the Roman Missal.
 
Ultimately, the rubrics bind under penalty of sin; we can argue until we’re blue in the face about the positive reasons for conforming to them but that negative reason seems sufficient to carry the day.
 
Ultimately, the rubrics bind under penalty of sin; we can argue until we’re blue in the face about the positive reasons for conforming to them but that negative reason seems sufficient to carry the day.
That is very true, but even at that, there are many who will ignore what the Church asks to be done during the Mass. In the Extraordinary Form of the Mass, a priest had to make amends for even the slightest deviation. No such action exists i the Novus Ordo, at least as far as I can tell.
 
In the “orientation of the priest” thread that I began, the discussion has turned into a rather hotly contested debate on the importance of rubrics. There are some who do not seem to think that rubrics and norms are important to the point that they claim that the Mass is not the liturgy. There are others who advocate the rule of the law of prayer is the law of faith (as has been mentioned several times by Francis Cardinal Arinze and then-Cardinal Ratzinger).
Since I think the ‘some’ in this refers at least in part to me, I will point out that I have said, and maintain, not that the Mass is not the liturgy, but rather that the liturgy is not the Mass.

By this I mean that the form of liturgy used does not define, constrain, or bind the Mass. Liturgies come, go, and change. Any liturgy the Church wants to use is good enough for me. The liturgy is not the Mass, it is just the way it is being celebrated in that place on that day.

Also, I don’t think I have said that the rubrics should be ignored, although in the heat of the exchange I agree this may have been a fair inferrence from some of my comments. More accurate would be that I don’t care what the rubrics are. I leave the details of what to wear, where to stand, who should help out, how the altar should be dressed, etc, etc, to the clergy. I admit to some personal preferences in some of these matters, but I don’t expect my preferences to be reflected, or even noted.

I would include in this not checking up on the priest, comparing his actions to the GIRM, etc. If he changes the Creed in a way that changes its meaning, or the Lord’s Prayer, or something like that, that would give me pause. If he shows up wearing light blue vestments and gives the homily from the choir loft, I’d probably just assume that he was allowed to do that and give it no more thought. I suppose that may seem like ignoring the rubrics. The distinction is that I think he should do it the way he is supposed to, but I’ll defer to him on the ‘supposed to’ part, except for maybe extreme and ridiculous examples. (Which I’m sure are forthcoming.)
The polemics behind my original thread prompted me to begin this one because there seems to be a lot of misgivings and a lot of misinformation flowing out there.
First of all, the Mass is the Holy Sacriifce. It is the most important action (work) in which we, as Catholics, partake. It was no small statement that the Council Fathers made when they said that the Mass is the “source and summit” of the life of the Church. The basic core of the Catholic Faith lies in the Paschal Mystery, which is best and most perfectly expressed in the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.
Okay. Let the salvos begin!
This is what got the fireworks going, I think. The Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. Mass attendence is the first precept of the Church. But the Mass is not the most important work in which Catholics partake. The Mass enables us to live our lives more fully and completely as Christians. Our most important work is to love our neighbors. The Mass helps us immensely in that work.

I agree that the Paschal Mystery is at the core of Catholic faith. I agree that the Paschal Mystery is expressed in the Mass. I don’t agree that those two facts combine to make Mass attendance the most important aspect of being Catholic.

But more to the point of the topic of rubrics I think, is that the liturgy – the words and gestures used by the Church at the Mass – are not the sum total of the Mass, nor can they bind, constrain or define the Mass. The Mass can be accomplished with different words and gestures and the Church is in fact using ten or so different liturgies right now.

The words of the liturgy have no inherent power. The gestures performed have no inherent power. I recognize that the precise form of the words and gestures are important to some people. They are not important to me. I don’t believe they are essential, or even important, to celebrating a ‘proper’ Mass, if proper means a Mass that does what Christ intended us to do when He said “Do this in rememberance of Me.”
 
Since I think the ‘some’ in this refers at least in part to me, I will point out that I have said, and maintain, not that the Mass is not the liturgy, but rather that the liturgy is not the Mass.

By this I mean that the form of liturgy used does not define, constrain, or bind the Mass. Liturgies come, go, and change. Any liturgy the Church wants to use is good enough for me. The liturgy is not the Mass, it is just the way it is being celebrated in that place on that day.

Also, I don’t think I have said that the rubrics should be ignored, although in the heat of the exchange I agree this may have been a fair inferrence from some of my comments. More accurate would be that I don’t care what the rubrics are. I leave the details of what to wear, where to stand, who should help out, how the altar should be dressed, etc, etc, to the clergy. I admit to some personal preferences in some of these matters, but I don’t expect my preferences to be reflected, or even noted.

I would include in this not checking up on the priest, comparing his actions to the GIRM, etc. If he changes the Creed in a way that changes its meaning, or the Lord’s Prayer, or something like that, that would give me pause. If he shows up wearing light blue vestments and gives the homily from the choir loft, I’d probably just assume that he was allowed to do that and give it no more thought. I suppose that may seem like ignoring the rubrics. The distinction is that I think he should do it the way he is supposed to, but I’ll defer to him on the ‘supposed to’ part, except for maybe extreme and ridiculous examples. (Which I’m sure are forthcoming.)

This is what got the fireworks going, I think. The Mass is the Holy Sacrifice. Mass attendence is the first precept of the Church. But the Mass is not the most important work in which Catholics partake. The Mass enables us to live our lives more fully and completely as Christians. Our most important work is to love our neighbors. The Mass helps us immensely in that work.

I agree that the Paschal Mystery is at the core of Catholic faith. I agree that the Paschal Mystery is expressed in the Mass. I don’t agree that those two facts combine to make Mass attendance the most important aspect of being Catholic.

But more to the point of the topic of rubrics I think, is that the liturgy – the words and gestures used by the Church at the Mass – are not the sum total of the Mass, nor can they bind, constrain or define the Mass. The Mass can be accomplished with different words and gestures and the Church is in fact using ten or so different liturgies right now.

The words of the liturgy have no inherent power. The gestures performed have no inherent power. I recognize that the precise form of the words and gestures are important to some people. They are not important to me. I don’t believe they are essential, or even important, to celebrating a ‘proper’ Mass, if proper means a Mass that does what Christ intended us to do when He said “Do this in rememberance of Me.”
The words of the Liturgy have no inherent power? You do realize that if the priest changes even one letter of the Eucharistic prayer, the consecration does not even take place. Instead of receiving the Eucharist, you’re simply just getting a piece of bread. Words and actions in the Liturgy have tremendous power. When a priest dresses oddly and does things like giving the homily in the choir loft, you need to leave, because the priest is disobeying Rome. The role of the priest in the Liturgy is to lead us to Christ. A priest who disobeys Rome is leading you away from Christ.
 
The words of the Liturgy have no inherent power? You do realize that if the priest changes even one letter of the Eucharistic prayer, the consecration does not even take place. Instead of receiving the Eucharist, you’re simply just getting a piece of bread. Words and actions in the Liturgy have tremendous power. When a priest dresses oddly and does things like giving the homily in the choir loft, you need to leave, because the priest is disobeying Rome. The role of the priest in the Liturgy is to lead us to Christ. A priest who disobeys Rome is leading you away from Christ.
No, I am not aware, nor is it true, that varying a single word of the Eucharist Prayer renders the Eucharist invalid. The words of consecration are to be spoken correctly, but even if they are not as long as they express “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” the consecration is valid.

My whole point is that I don’t second guess the priest on things like vestments, so I cannot be sure that he is “disobeying Rome.” If he thinks he is not, maybe he’s not. And even if he is, why do I have to flee? He can’t lead me away from Christ. Christ has a pretty firm hold on me.
 
No, I am not aware, nor is it true, that varying a single word of the Eucharist Prayer renders the Eucharist invalid. The words of consecration are to be spoken correctly, but even if they are not as long as they express “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” the consecration is valid.

My whole point is that I don’t second guess the priest on things like vestments, so I cannot be sure that he is “disobeying Rome.” If he thinks he is not, maybe he’s not. And even if he is, why do I have to flee? He can’t lead me away from Christ. Christ has a pretty firm hold on me.
AMEN!

Remember, the priest is in “persona Christi”.
 
No, I am not aware, nor is it true, that varying a single word of the Eucharist Prayer renders the Eucharist invalid. The words of consecration are to be spoken correctly, but even if they are not as long as they express “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” the consecration is valid.

My whole point is that I don’t second guess the priest on things like vestments, so I cannot be sure that he is “disobeying Rome.” If he thinks he is not, maybe he’s not. And even if he is, why do I have to flee? He can’t lead me away from Christ. Christ has a pretty firm hold on me.
Almost every protestant hold dear these words. It is a prideful remark that does lead you from Christ. How can a priest not lead you from Christ? Are you implying that the priest is infallible, that everything he says is true?

Further, Vatican II states that, “No other person whatsoever, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the Liturgy on their own authority.” (Sacrosanctum Concilium article 22, section 3). Sounds like you’re saying a priest can change the words of consecration. However, even if they change just one letter, the consecration is invalid because the priest is going against the authority of Rome. If you continue to follow this priest, then his disobedience may rub off on you. You may say that Christ has a firm hold on you, but the priest will say likewise. Who does Christ really hold fast to Him?
 
AMEN!

Remember, the priest is in “persona Christi”.
Pyropam, congrats on your conversion to the Catholic Church!

It is “in persona Christi”, the “in” is also part of the phrase. Since you’re new, I won’t hold it against you.😛
 
No, I am not aware, nor is it true, that varying a single word of the Eucharist Prayer renders the Eucharist invalid. The words of consecration are to be spoken correctly, but even if they are not as long as they express “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” the consecration is valid.
Actually, it is true. In order for the consecration of the Eucharist to be valid, there must be proper intent, matter AND form. So form (what is said) DOES matter. If the priest stands up at the altar and does not say “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” and instead says something else like “This is the Body of Christ” then the Eucharist is invalid and transubstantiation does NOT occur. You may want to think otherwise, but you would be mistaken. Remember, it is not you or me or whoever that makes the call, so to speak, on what constitutes a valid or invalid Eucharist or Mass. It is the Church, with the authority given by Christ who does. All that we need to do to know if a Mass is invalid or not is to have knowledge of the relevant Church documents.
 
dbacks
How can a priest not lead you from Christ? Are you implying that the priest is infallible, that everything he says is true?
The source of faith is Christ, not the priest. If a priest leads you from Christ, you didn’t have faith to begin with.
Further, Vatican II states that, “No other person whatsoever, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the Liturgy on their own authority.”
Right, if you read long before this, it states that the Bishop is the authority. So no person can change anything without permission from the Bishop.

Jim
 
dbacks

The source of faith is Christ, not the priest. If a priest leads you from Christ, you didn’t have faith to begin with.

Right, if you read long before this, it states that the Bishop is the authority. So no person can change anything without permission from the Bishop.

Jim
Jim, you are misreading the text. As recently as 2005, before the Conclave, Cardinal Arinze affirmed that no priest, not even the Bishop, can change anything. Permission must be received from the Holy See. In fact, whatever bootleg translations that are floating around (of the revised Roman Missal) cannot be used without the recognitio of the Holy See. The bishop does have some leeway, through the Bishops’ conferences, but, on his own, he cannot do anything regarding changing words or rubrics. Even Benedict XVI has said this, pre and post conclave.
 
Almost every protestant hold dear these words. It is a prideful remark that does lead you from Christ. How can a priest not lead you from Christ? Are you implying that the priest is infallible, that everything he says is true?

Further, Vatican II states that, “No other person whatsoever, not even a priest, may add, remove, or change anything in the Liturgy on their own authority.” (Sacrosanctum Concilium article 22, section 3). Sounds like you’re saying a priest can change the words of consecration. However, even if they change just one letter, the consecration is invalid because the priest is going against the authority of Rome. If you continue to follow this priest, then his disobedience may rub off on you. You may say that Christ has a firm hold on you, but the priest will say likewise. Who does Christ really hold fast to Him?
I did not say that the priest may change the words, in fact I said that he was not to do so. But if he does it does not invalidate the Sacrament. I know that neither CAF nor Jimmy Akin are necessarily authoritative, but check out what the J.A. wrote on this as published on CAF’s website:
Although the use of any other words of consecration whatsoever is both gravely illicit and gravely sinful, it is not necessarily invalid. So long as the words used for consecration express the fact that"This is my Body"and “This is . . . my Blood” then the consecration will be valid. The other words used further specify and elaborate the purposes of Christ’s sacrifice and of the sacrament, but they do not pertain to the basic reality of Christ’s Real Presence under the forms of bread and wine. Consequently, they are not necessary to bring about the Real Presence (see N. Halligan, The Sacraments and Their Celebration, 67).
Invalid Masses

And how exactly will his disobedience “rub off on” me? Is it your concern that I, too, will begin wearing light blue vestments? I agree that priests with poor theological founding can preach in error and lead the less well-formed astray. But getting the rubrics wrong can’t “rub off.”

As for who Christ holds fast to, well I believe He holds fast to me. That is not to say that I could not by my actions and inactions break that bond and move away from Him, or that I don’t do (hopefully little) things each day tend to do so. But I’m not going to be led astray by a priest using the wrong cup, or by a priest that says “truly most holy” instead of “holy indeed”.
Actually, it is true. In order for the consecration of the Eucharist to be valid, there must be proper intent, matter AND form. So form (what is said) DOES matter. If the priest stands up at the altar and does not say “This is My Body” and “This is My Blood” and instead says something else like “This is the Body of Christ” then the Eucharist is invalid and transubstantiation does NOT occur. You may want to think otherwise, but you would be mistaken. Remember, it is not you or me or whoever that makes the call, so to speak, on what constitutes a valid or invalid Eucharist or Mass. It is the Church, with the authority given by Christ who does. All that we need to do to know if a Mass is invalid or not is to have knowledge of the relevant Church documents.
See above for my thoughts on changing the words. I agree that you and I don’t decide. My points throughout have been: 1) any liturgy the Church uses is fine with me, and 2) I will defer to the celebrant on the appropriate rubrics. So I am not insisting on any particular form of the Mass. I think its generally true that lay people can tell if a Mass in invalid, but that’s because it has to be done pretty wrong to get to “invalid”. Invalid is, of course, not the same as illicit. If the priest does something wrong he has performed the sacrament illicitly and will have to answer for that to temporal and divine authorities as appropriate. But it does not necessarily invalidate the Sacrament and, except in extreme cases, does not concern me.
 
Jim, you are misreading the text. As recently as 2005, before the Conclave, Cardinal Arinze affirmed that no priest, not even the Bishop, can change anything. Permission must be received from the Holy See. In fact, whatever bootleg translations that are floating around (of the revised Roman Missal) cannot be used without the recognitio of the Holy See. The bishop does have some leeway, through the Bishops’ conferences, but, on his own, he cannot do anything regarding changing words or rubrics. Even Benedict XVI has said this, pre and post conclave.
This I must admit I do not know one way or the other. Seems to me the Bishop should have this kind of authority, or he is just a Monseigneur with a big hat. But given the trend to centralizing absolutely everything this would not surprise me.

This I do know – there is a heirarchy in deciding such things and whatever it is, my rung is way below the point where people get a say in it.
 
Jim, you are misreading the text. As recently as 2005, before the Conclave, Cardinal Arinze affirmed that no priest, not even the Bishop, can change anything. Permission must be received from the Holy See. In fact, whatever bootleg translations that are floating around (of the revised Roman Missal) cannot be used without the recognitio of the Holy See. The bishop does have some leeway, through the Bishops’ conferences, but, on his own, he cannot do anything regarding changing words or rubrics. Even Benedict XVI has said this, pre and post conclave.
The USCCB receives permission to change the norms of the Mass.

The words of the consecration can not be change, i.e. “This is my body,…”.

However, words like, “Pray brethren that this our sacrifice” can be change to “Pray my brothers and sisters.”

Jim
 
The USCCB receives permission to change the norms of the Mass.

The words of the consecration can not be change, i.e. “This is my body,…”.

However, words like, “Pray brethren that this our sacrifice” can be change to “Pray my brothers and sisters.”

Jim
Yes, the USCCB does receive permission. However, it does need the recognitio from the Holy See. They don’t act in a vaccuum.

The reference you made is already written into the Roman Missal. I know because I own a Sacramentary, as well as a Daily Roman Missal. I still hold to my guns regarding the need for recognitio from the Holy See before any changes can be made.
 
The USCCB receives permission to change the norms of the Mass.

The words of the consecration can not be change, i.e. “This is my body,…”.

However, words like, “Pray brethren that this our sacrifice” can be change to “Pray my brothers and sisters.”

Jim
The USCCB may submit a change, but the change must then be confirmed by the Holy See before it can be implemented.

The exception is where the Holy See has already granted certainly leeway, such as places in the Sacramentary where certain prayers are specified, but follows with a statement “or words to that effect”. In such a case, a celebrant may use his own, but similar words.

Such leeway has not been approved for any part of the Eucharistic Prayers, or other common prayer of the Mass ( Creed, Sanctus etc…)
 
This I must admit I do not know one way or the other. Seems to me the Bishop should have this kind of authority, or he is just a Monseigneur with a big hat. But given the trend to centralizing absolutely everything this would not surprise me.

This I do know – there is a heirarchy in deciding such things and whatever it is, my rung is way below the point where people get a say in it.
A Bishop must be in communion with the Pope on such matters. He should not have this kind of authority. Bishops are ordained to teach, govern, and sanctify within the bounds of authority granted to them. If a Bishop could just choose to do whatever he wanted regarding the liturgy, then we would be Protestants. I used to be Lutheran and that’s exactly what happens…each pastor or bishop decides what to do.

Any official change to the text of the liturgy must have the recognitio of Rome, otherwise it is gravely illicit and quite possibly an act of schism.

To be honest TMC, most of what you describe really is protestant principles of individual interpretation of texts and decision making.
 
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