The Indult

  • Thread starter Thread starter ServusChristi
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
S

ServusChristi

Guest
Would you attend the traditional Latin Mass under the Ecclesia Dei indult?
 
How about: “I go once in a while, but like the Novus Ordo Mass that I usually attend just as much” ?

That would have been my choice.

One of the nice things for me, is the indult Mass is only a 2 minute walk from my house!

I also like going to the Maronite rite Mass once in a while. Now there’s a Mass where you need a missal!
 
Actually, I voted wrong…I would like to attend, but there is no licit one in my (not very generous) diocese.
 
I’m middleaged (48), so I went to the Latin mass for a funeral back in the old days, but its so 1960s, I don’t see how its that relevant today.

I suppose if someone never attended it, how nostaglia could inspire them, but really its old news.
 
In my home Diocese, there is one TLM offered under the indult but it is a hour and a half away, at 8 in the mornng so we haven’t gone. We have a new co-adjuctor bishop who is a fan of the Latin language. He even writes some of his email in Latin so we are hopeful that when he becomes the ordinary, he will grant a wider use of the Indult.

On vacation in NJ, I attended an indult Mass. Unfortunately, it was low Mass and not celebrated dialog style so I am hoping to go to a High Mass soon.

I am in Venezuela for a few months and the indult Mass here seems to be only offered in Caracas and that’s five hours away. 😦
 
40.png
Fullsizesedan:
I’m middleaged (48), so I went to the Latin mass for a funeral back in the old days, but its so 1960s, I don’t see how its that relevant today.

I suppose if someone never attended it, how nostaglia could inspire them, but really its old news.
Click to expand...
Old news? Is it just me or is this a less than revervant way of refering to **any ** Mass that is licit and valid?
Or did I compleatly misunderstand your post?
How is it not relevant? How can it be “so 1960’s”? The TLM isn’t like a pair of bellbottoms. But even those came back in style.
 
40.png
ServusChristi:
Would you attend the traditional Latin Mass under the Ecclesia Dei indult?
Click to expand...
Of course! The Pope and Cardinal Ratzinger have encouraged it highly, and as a matter of fact, it is the ONLY Mass I attend on SUNDAYS At Saint Agnes Roman Catholic Parish here in Manhattan, New York City (Indult) at 11:00AM every SUNDAY, I don’t attend Novus Ordo Sunday Masses personally. I have too on occasion (as TODAY) attend the Tridentine Latin Mass offered by a SSPX priest in a certain location in Manhattan. If the Archdiocese of New York were to revoke the Indult, I would THEN stop attending ALL Novus Ordo Masses and go solely with the SSPX.
 
You would leave the Church because you can’t have your own way?

How sad.
 
40.png
cmom:
You would leave the Church because you can’t have your own way?

How sad.
Click to expand...
Before I go into an in depth explanation to your question, what is it you mean by “you would leave the church because you can’t have it your way”? If you mean attending the Latin Tridentine Mass is “leaving the Church” I suggest you read Pope John Paul II’s Letter: “Motu Propio Ecclesia Dei”, in which he not only supports the Latin Tridentine Mass, but exhorts all Bishops to offer the INDULT for the Mass in their Dioceses, and to be genourous in so doing. On the other hand, if you mean those who frequent the SSPX Masses, Cardinal Ratzinger has said that, “they are not OUTSIDE the Church, and if a Catholic attends the SSPX Tridentine Latin Mass at one of their chapels on a SUNDAY, they fulfill their SUNDAY obligation.” Hence, please explain what you mean by: “You woulod leave the Church because you won’t get your way”??
 
40.png
cmom:
You would leave the Church because you can’t have your own way?

How sad.
Click to expand...
ALSO, I forgot, May I suggest you check out the web-site of the Coalition in support of ECCLESIA DEI:
www.ecclesiadei.org :clapping:
OR: if you would like to read about the SSPX, and how they are followers of Pope John Paul II, and pray for him in every Mass: www.sspx.org
 
40.png
misericordie:
ALSO, I forgot, May I suggest you check out the web-site of the Coalition in support of ECCLESIA DEI:
www.ecclesiadei.org :clapping:
OR: if you would like to read about the SSPX, and how they are followers of Pope John Paul II, and pray for him in every Mass: www.sspx.org
Click to expand...
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the SSPX folks are followers of His Holiness. The Church recognizes the valid orders of SSPX clergy and thus the SSPX posesses valid sacraments. It’s sorta like how we view the Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics. If there is no Divine Liturgy available for a Byzantine Catholic to attend, he or she may attend an Orthodox liturgy and perhaps even receive communion (I guess some Orthodox clergy do permit this) without pain of mortal sin. The same holds true for Latin Catholics who cannot get to an Ecclesia Dei Mass and attend an SSPX Tridentine Mass out of love and respect for their Tridentine Mass. One may NOT attend an SSPX Mass simply because he or she denies the validity of the Novus Ordo (as the SSPX themselves do). If you’re gonna go to an SSPX Mass, you must believe that the Novus Ordo is equally valid and you may go ONLY if no lawfully approved Indult Mass is offered in your area. Playing with the SSPX is like playing with fire. Just ask the people and priests who have tried to leave the Society (I know several in both categories).
 
40.png
CatholicNerd:
I wouldn’t go so far as to say that the SSPX folks are followers of His Holiness. The Church recognizes the valid orders of SSPX clergy and thus the SSPX posesses valid sacraments. It’s sorta like how we view the Orthodox and Byzantine Catholics. If there is no Divine Liturgy available for a Byzantine Catholic to attend, he or she may attend an Orthodox liturgy and perhaps even receive communion (I guess some Orthodox clergy do permit this) without pain of mortal sin. The same holds true for Latin Catholics who cannot get to an Ecclesia Dei Mass and attend an SSPX Tridentine Mass out of love and respect for their Tridentine Mass. One may NOT attend an SSPX Mass simply because he or she denies the validity of the Novus Ordo (as the SSPX themselves do). If you’re gonna go to an SSPX Mass, you must believe that the Novus Ordo is equally valid and you may go ONLY if no lawfully approved Indult Mass is offered in your area. Playing with the SSPX is like playing with fire. Just ask the people and priests who have tried to leave the Society (I know several in both categories).
Click to expand...
You fail to give reasonable EXAMPLES of HOW and WHY “playing with the SSPX is like playing with fire.”??? NOTE: I do attend the TRIDENTINE Latin Mass of the INDULT(Ecclesia Dei), and yes, I would ONLY become a full fleged member of the SSPX Society IF THE INDULT HERE IN THE ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK UNDER CARDINAL EDWARD M. EGAN WERE REVOKED(WHICH I DOUBT). I do interact and go with the FSSP Priests, abd other ECCLESIA DEI COMMISION PRIESTS. Also, I DO BELIEVE that the NOVUS ORDO IS VALID, ONLY IF THE RUBRICS ARE FOLLOWED, THEIR IS A VALIDLY ORDAINED PRIEST, Matter and Form, and the PRIEST(by his piety as demonstrated by his example of life, reverence, and holiness) has the SAME INTENTION OF THE CHURCH.
 
40.png
misericordie:
You fail to give reasonable EXAMPLES of HOW and WHY “playing with the SSPX is like playing with fire.”??? NOTE: I do attend the TRIDENTINE Latin Mass of the INDULT(Ecclesia Dei), and yes, I would ONLY become a full fleged member of the SSPX Society IF THE INDULT HERE IN THE ARCHDIOCESE OF NEW YORK UNDER CARDINAL EDWARD M. EGAN WERE REVOKED(WHICH I DOUBT). I do interact and go with the FSSP Priests, abd other ECCLESIA DEI COMMISION PRIESTS. Also**, I DO BELIEVE that the NOVUS ORDO IS VALID, ONLY IF THE RUBRICS ARE FOLLOWED, THEIR IS A VALIDLY ORDAINED PRIEST, Matter and Form, and the PRIEST**(by his piety as demonstrated by his example of life, reverence, and holiness) has the SAME INTENTION OF THE CHURCH.
Click to expand...
But do the SSPX believe the NOM is valid??? Do you believe the SSPX Mass is Licit?
 
40.png
misericordie:
Cardinal Ratzinger has said that, “they are not OUTSIDE the Church, and if a Catholic attends the SSPX Tridentine Latin Mass at one of their chapels on a SUNDAY, they fulfill their SUNDAY obligation.”
Click to expand...
Misericordie,

Are these remarks of Cardinal Ratzinger available online, or in one of his books? Just wondering…
 
Is the Society of St. Pius X in Schism?
A Recent Response from Rome
By: John Loughnan

matt1618.freeyellow.com/schism.html

If a specific statement has been made on this by Cardinal Ratzinger, you no doubt could find it on this page

ratzingerfanclub.com/Ratzinger_Online.html

Also if one is going to be directed to SSPX sites and believe what they say rather than what the Church teaches and has to say about validity vs licit, etc. then they need to know that neither they or SSPX are in synch with Rome and the Pope in spite of what they say.

If you are curious enough to read what the SSPX has to say then you should read this site also which separates the truth from the implied truths.

matt1618.freeyellow.com/treatise8.html

The line is fine but it is a line nonetheless and the SSPX have crossed that line. And the bottom line is this - if the Pope says they are in schism, they are and no amount of canon law quotes, arguments and legalistic loopholing can change that.

I am a traditionalist all the way who attends Tridentine Masses that are both valid and licit only.
 
Also, I DO BELIEVE that the NOVUS ORDO IS VALID, ONLY IF THE RUBRICS ARE FOLLOWED, THEIR IS A VALIDLY ORDAINED PRIEST, Matter and Form, and the PRIEST(by his piety as demonstrated by his example of life, reverence, and holiness) has the SAME INTENTION OF THE CHURCH.
Click to expand...
With respect and the deepest love for those who frequent TLM, here is where I start to get confused.

First for most of the rubrics, doesn’t failure to follow them constitute abuse and possibly make the Mass illicit but not invalid? This is not to say that there are not abuses that could invalidate a Mass, just that most of the deviations we see from the rubrics don’t rise to that level.

Second, I have often heard SSPX and others question the validity of the ordination of Novus Ordo priests. I have not ever understood where that came from and I think it unnecessarily alarms many Catholics who are just trying to find a good, reverent Mass.

Third, even a priest currently in manifest sin, confects the Eucharist. I understand why you may not prefer to attend a Mass where you do not respect how the priest lives his life, but does that make the Mass invailid?

One other thing, and I may be behind in my research, has to do with the validity of SSPX Masses. As I understand it, while it is not sinful for the Catholic faithful to attend a SSPX Mass, the SSPX Priests and Bishops are in a state of disobedience and without valid faculties from the local ordinaries. So if a Catholic chooses to attend a SSPX Mass without a serious reason (like it’s Sunday and the is no other Mass nearby), isn’t this contributing to the sin of another?

I don’t mean to be argumentative, just wanted to take this chance to ask some questions that have been nagging me. Thanks.
 
Not to interrupt or anything, but I did not intend for this to be a thread on whether or not the Novus Ordo is valid or whether the SSPX is in schism. I was hoping people could simply discuss the indult and what it has done for them.

Any thoughts on why you love the Tridentine Mass (without attacking the Novus Ordo)? Also, I would like news from different people about the expansion of the indult (or its withdrawal in certain areas) and efforts to get Bishops to extend the indult under Ecclesia Dei.

Peace,
Ryan
 
*Old news? Is it just me or is this a less than revervant way of refering to any Mass that is licit and valid? *

Maybe a little less reverent than it could be, but I was just communicating the fact that the old latin mass is now just mostly a part of history, something to respect and honor but nothing which will ever return.
 
Ironic, I just wrote a long post defending Life Teen and now I vote for the option in this poll to “check it out sometime.”

One of these days, I might check it out just because I think that it is important as a Catholic to learn and appreciate our tradtions.

I see no reason to pretend that the Church did not exist before Vatican II.:bigyikes:
 
40.png
Fullsizesedan:
I’m middleaged (48), so I went to the Latin mass for a funeral back in the old days, but its so 1960s, I don’t see how its that relevant today.

I suppose if someone never attended it, how nostaglia could inspire them, but really its old news.
Click to expand...
I am also 48 and go to Latin Mass every week and love it. Much more reverent and respectful than the new Mass. Who said that Mass has to be relevant to today? That’s why there are so many different protestant denominations. So that people can pick and choose and go to a church that fits their lifestyle.(cafeteria Christianity). I don’t want to be relevant to today’s world. Today’s world scares me.
The Catholic Church doesn’t care what the world thinks.That’s why it’s so much different than the others. And thank God for that!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top