The infamous "I was raised Catholic" statement

[The_Barrister]

Mandi:

I am a cradle Catholic, went to a Catholic School but it wasn’t until I was 30 years old that I found out I was not raised Catholic. But the good news it I’m Catholic NOW!

Amen right back atcha!

I too am a cradle Catholic, but my father was Southern Baptist and my mother was United Church of the Bretheren. I was raised in a basically secular household, so I can’t even say that I was raised Catholic. Although I went to 12 years of Catholic schooling, I came away with a sense of emptiness rather than any sense of being “Catholic.”

Thankfully, I married a Catholic (she was more so than I, but not all the way) and we then had a lot of Catholics praying for us! Those prayers, and the example of my wife, her family, my children, and a few co-workers, led me back home.

 

[pipoluojo]

A statement like this in my local environment usually comes from someone who has left the Church for one of the ‘chewing-gum-Jesus’ denominations. ‘I was even an altar boy’ is another statement to describe the ‘exalted’ degree attained in the faith. I tell them they never were Catholic, they never became one, or else they would never have had any cause to seek to embrace another faith .

 

[Auberon_Quin]

pipoluojo:

A statement like this in my local environment usually comes from someone who has left the Church for one of the ‘chewing-gum-Jesus’ denominations. ‘I was even an altar boy’ is another statement to describe the ‘exalted’ degree attained in the faith. I tell them they never were Catholic, they never became one, or else they would never have had any cause to seek to embrace another faith .

HEY! I was an altar boy, although I was decommissioned after I set the place on fire on Easter Sunday. It was an accident.

Whoops. Guess I just proved your point, eh?

I have a little trouble with the logic that anyone who leaves the Catholic faith never was a true Catholic to begin with. I see this logic a lot in the “non-Catholic religions” board, and it’s kind of insulting, to be honest. I mean, the only reason we left was because we weren’t really members in the first place?

Maybe we just decided that the Church was, well, wrong.

 

[ricatholic]

Auberon Quin:

I have a little trouble with the logic that anyone who leaves the Catholic faith never was a true Catholic to begin with. I see this logic a lot in the “non-Catholic religions” board, and it’s kind of insulting, to be honest. I mean, the only reason we left was because we weren’t really members in the first place?

That arguement reminds me of the annulment arguement, when a person has been married for decades, has kids , have gone to church for years together and then with the flow of ink on paper the marriage never existed.

Peace

 

[Archbishop_10-K]

Others would say that ex-Catholics are still Catholic (I mean this in the sense that no one can undo their baptism, which leaves a permanent mark of Catholicity no matter what.) The term for that is, I believe, a “wayward Catholic.”

 

[The_Barrister]

I have a little trouble with the logic that anyone who leaves the Catholic faith never was a true Catholic to begin with. I see this logic a lot in the “non-Catholic religions” board, and it’s kind of insulting, to be honest. I mean, the only reason we left was because we weren’t really members in the first place?

Maybe we just decided that the Church was, well, wrong.

I cannot vouch for anyone else.

My comments were based upon my own observations, as well as the observations of other Catholic evangelists for whom I have a great deal of respect. Most ex-Catholics I have spoken with do not understand very basic Catholic doctrine. Whether they understood it at one time is doubtful in light of their misunderstanding now. Heck, I didn’t understand it prior to my return to the Church 3 years ago.

Thus, the empirical evidence tends to demonstrate a lack of catechesis amongst our fallen-away bretheren. The fact that you may not be counted within that majority does not invalidate the ultimate conclusion that most fallen-away Catholics did not have a good grasp of their Catholic faith.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

<<That arguement (sic) reminds me of the annulment arguement, when a person has been married for decades, has kids , have gone to church for years together and then with the flow of ink on paper the marriage never existed.>>

Ricatholic, it is not the “flow of the ink on paper” that causes a marriage to be annuled, and your statement is extremely offensive to those of us who are or have been through the annulment process, especially those of us with children or with a marriage of some duration --although in my case we certainly did not go to church together–he became extremely anti-Catholic about 4 years into the marriage.

The marriage did not exist in the first place. An annulment isn’t a Catholic divorce. It doesn’t make kids illegitimate.

Marriage doesn’t exist because of a set number of years married, or because people have children, or even if they go to church together. Marriage is a sacrament and there are many ways in which a “legal” marriage would not, could not have been a sacrament.

If you’re a Catholic, you follow the teachings of the church. Since the church teaches that annulment of a marriage can take place because the marriage was not sacramentally valid from the start–despite the length of time in the marriage, children, or other factors–I follow the teachings of the church. In your rather pointed animadversion of “flowing ink”, apparently you feel that you are more Catholic than the Pope by questioning the Catholic teachings regarding annulments!

 

[Panis_Angelicas]

Another positive reply to “I was raised Catholic,” would be, “Oh! Really? I’ll remember you to Our Lord at Mass this Sunday!” Or some other offer of prayers.

A couple remarks that get me are “I went to Catholic school for ___ years.” (Yes, and Jethro Beaudine of Beverly Hillibillies fame done gradgiated from the 6th grade. That doesn’t mean you are knowledgeable in the Catholic Faith.)

A bit off topic, but many people, Catholic and not happily volunteer their methods of contraception or sterilization, even in mixed groups!
What?! Did I ask if you’d had your tubes tied??? :bigyikes: Did I need to be told that your husband has had a vasectomy? :nope:

Maybe this is better for another thread, but I always struggle with anything I can possibly say after someone has announced these sins (as though it’s perfectly normal and acceptable).

Any ideas how to respond to those kind of remarks? They’re especially damaging when coming from “Catholics.”

Pax Christi. <><

 

[ricatholic]

<<That arguement (sic) reminds me of the annulment arguement, when a person has been married for decades, has kids , have gone to church for years together and then with the flow of ink on paper the marriage never existed.>>

Ricatholic, it is not the “flow of the ink on paper” that causes a marriage to be annuled, and your statement is extremely offensive to those of us who are or have been through the annulment process, especially those of us with children or with a marriage of some duration --although in my case we certainly did not go to church together–he became extremely anti-Catholic about 4 years into the marriage.

The marriage did not exist in the first place. An annulment isn’t a Catholic divorce. It doesn’t make kids illegitimate.

Marriage doesn’t exist because of a set number of years married, or because people have children, or even if they go to church together. Marriage is a sacrament and there are many ways in which a “legal” marriage would not, could not have been a sacrament.

If you’re a Catholic, you follow the teachings of the church. Since the church teaches that annulment of a marriage can take place because the marriage was not sacramentally valid from the start–despite the length of time in the marriage, children, or other factors–I follow the teachings of the church. In your rather pointed animadversion of “flowing ink”, apparently you feel that you are more Catholic than the Pope by questioning the Catholic teachings regarding annulments!

I know it isn’t a catholic divorce, but until the time the ink flows it is still a sacrement that can cause sin to be commited . If it is insulting to those that have had their marriages annuled, then I would reflect upon what I posted. I didn’t characterize the people who get annullments as being unworthy of relief from a life of sin if they chose to remarry. But if you were married and lived as married and went through the marriage formation process and had kids etc. etc., did you really think at anytime you were married that you weren’t?(prob a topic for another thread)

But the point I was making is that because a person is not now catholic doesn’t mean they were never "really"catholic.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

<<A bit off topic, but many people, Catholic and not happily volunteer their methods of contraception or sterilization, even in mixed groups!
What?! Did I ask if you’d had your tubes tied??? Did I need to be told that your husband has had a vasectomy?

Maybe this is better for another thread, but I always struggle with anything I can possibly say after someone has announced these sins (as though it’s perfectly normal and acceptable).

Any ideas how to respond to those kind of remarks? They’re especially damaging when coming from “Catholics.” >>

There isn’t really much to say. If they’re saying these things maliciously or proudly, they’re either going to challenge your POV or use all sorts of arguments to try to prove their point, and they aren’t going to want to listen to even the most charitable words. You can usually (but not always) tell these people because they tend to be very extremist, given to blanket statements, outright hostility to the church, etc.

If they’re saying them because they’re ignorant (of Catholic teaching and/or of good manners
), you have what’s called a “teachable moment”. And then it depends on you and that individual, and whether you have, or will have, some long-term relationship (a potential relative, a co-worker, a friend of a friend), or whether this is just somebody who sat down next to you on a bus and started in out of jolly cameraderie with all mankind.

If this is someone you might be able to have more extensive long term interaction, you could say something like, “That must have been a very thought provoking or difficult decision for you.” If they start in with how they’ve been against the church ever since, you can steer away with, “I’d like to talk more about this later to give you the attention you deserve”, and then prepare yourself with whatever might help put across your POV. Go slowly, think charitable thoughts, focus on charitable things (like with abortion, you can bring up “Rachel’s Vineyard”) and if it looks like a stalemate, be sure that your last words are very, very loving. It could just be that those words of love will plant the seed of repentance. YOU may never see the results, but love and prayer, we know, can and do work miracles. IMO.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Again, ric, I think you have missed the point. If a marriage is annuled, it was NEVER a sacrament. Thus, your assertion that " until the time the ink flows it is still a sacrament that can cause sin to be commited" is wrong.

However, I agree with the idea that just because a person does not NOW follow Catholic teaching does not mean that he was never really Catholic to start. Catholics are baptized Catholic.

If after the baptism, at any point, a Catholic loses his or her faith, s/he is still a baptized Catholic, but no longer a practicing Catholic. And a practicing Catholic may be a good or a bad person (although if s/he is REALLY trying to follow Catholic teaching it’s going to be HARDER to remain bad). A non practicing Catholic may likewise be a good or a bad person, but it’s going to be harder (IMO) for them to remain GOOD, without GOD–specifically, without the gift of faith which they have chosen to reject.

 

[Les_Richardson]

ricatholic:

I notice that some converts disparage those “raised catholic” as if being raised catholic means that the faith of those raised catholic is somehow less considered or less real.

Consider that there may be something to be said for those that have stuck it out as catholics despite being more aware of the totality of being catholic.

To remain catholic while being aware, worts and all , of the church can require more discipline than those that may have fled some other faith to become catholic.

Peace

Personally, as a convert, I admire those who were raised Catholic and have hung on to orthodoxy through some trying times. The stories I’ve heard from several years ago in my own parish moves me with sympathy for those who may have lost their way when change was being implemented willy-nilly for the sake of change, and the message and the beauty that accompanies the message was obscured. There were those as well who endured steadfastly in their faith and they have been the ones who have been most kind to me and welcomed me in as a convert and made me feel at home.

And, I agree, the scandalous events of recent years are incidental to the truth of the Catholic faith, although discouraging to so many. Despite all that has happened, and the Catholic bashing that goes on in the dominant media culture, I recognized the truth when I found it, and God extended His hand of Grace to me.

I praise and thank Him for that, and for His infinite mercy.

 

[Les_Richardson]

space ghost:

i have a great deal of respect for those cradle catholics that have managed to fight the good fight, and run the race, and manage to hold on… sometimes by their finger nails… it’s hard to answer all the questions (because we don’t know all the answers) and there are some pretty savvy people throwing questions that are sometimes pretty convincing… but, i do believe for those that try the holy ghost gives extra grace to hang on… and hang on they will, for i believe that they are the backbone of the catholic church and they are solid… Solid as a Rock…

Amen.:yup:

 

[Les_Richardson]

“Cradle Catholic” is an odd term. Despite 16 years of Catholic schools, association and close friendships with tons of Catholics, and regular Mass attendance for a long time, I never heard the term until I came to this forum.
[/indent]

I first heard it on EWTN, and assumed it was a term of differentiation from a Catholic who is a convert, ie. not baptized by the Catholic church as an infant.
Personally, I’m not really comfortable with the expression.

 

[Les_Richardson]

Tantum ergo:

However, I agree with the idea that just because a person does not NOW follow Catholic teaching does not mean that he was never really Catholic to start. Catholics are baptized Catholic.

If after the baptism, at any point, a Catholic loses his or her faith, s/he is still a baptized Catholic, but no longer a practicing Catholic. And a practicing Catholic may be a good or a bad person (although if s/he is REALLY trying to follow Catholic teaching it’s going to be HARDER to remain bad). A non practicing Catholic may likewise be a good or a bad person, but it’s going to be harder (IMO) for them to remain GOOD, without GOD–specifically, without the gift of faith which they have chosen to reject.

Would their ultimate salvation be in doubt as well? Unless of course they take a U-turn. Objectively we understand the criteria, and of course we can make no judgements as to the actual state of another individual’s soul. That’s God’s domain, yet we know what the Church teaches.

 

[lacoloratura]

Auberon Quin:

“Cradle Catholic” is an odd term. Despite 16 years of Catholic schools, association and close friendships with tons of Catholics, and regular Mass attendance for a long time, I never heard the term until I came to this forum.
[/indent]

Interesting. I’ve heard it practically my whole life.

 

[Ellen]

A bit off topic, but many people, Catholic and not happily volunteer their methods of contraception or sterilization, even in mixed groups!
What?! Did I ask if you’d had your tubes tied??? :bigyikes: Did I need to be told that your husband has had a vasectomy? :nope:

Maybe this is better for another thread, but I always struggle with anything I can possibly say after someone has announced these sins (as though it’s perfectly normal and acceptable).

Any ideas how to respond to those kind of remarks? They’re especially damaging when coming from “Catholics.”

Pax Christi. <><

I’ve encountered this same problem. One of my neighbors (who lived w/ her fiance prior to their marriage, and since the marriage only went to church for her children’s baptisms) told me loudly, in church, right b/f her last child’s baptism that she was “done”, that she’d had her tubes tied following the delivery. I was flabbergasted and speechless, and just got out of there as quickly as possibly (I wasn’t there for the baptism; our parish does them after noon mass, I had just run into her). My former babysitter (also at a church function, but not in the church) declared that “it’s a good thing my tubes are tied”, b/c w/ all the baby’s around, she’d start wanting one. What astounded me about this is that her husband left her during her last pregnancy (she only has 2 children), and she never remarried, so she pretty much announced she had at least considered fornicating at some point and wanted to prevent a pregnancy.

I honestly don’t know what to say to these people. I have more respect for those who leave the Church over this issue than those who insist that one can be a “good Catholic” and disagree with defined teachings (which is saying that the Church can be wrong on defined teachings, which means that the Holy Spirit isn’t protecting the Pope and Magisterium from error, so Jesus lied when he said that the gates of Hell would never prevail against His Church. Or else the Catholic Church isn’t really His Church. I’m not sure which is worse). They don’t want to be taught. Very few are ignorant of the Church’s teaching, they simply don’t agree with it. I just keep praying that everyone in dissent will come to see the Truth.

Ellen

 

[BobCatholic]

ktm:

I’ve had more than one friend say to me, when prompted with careful language regarding religion, “I was raised Catholic.”

I usually take this to be code language for “I am not a practicing Catholic.”

You nailed it! The “was” is the big clue.

An interesting article:

catholiceducation.org/articles/religion/re0252.html

“While a lot of people leave the Church, they tend not to be good Catholics,” says Curtis Martin, president of Catholics United for the Faith, who himself returned to the Church after spending five years as an evangelical Protestant. “The Protestants [now] coming into the Church are the most devoted Protestants, people deeply committed to Scripture and prayer. We’re losing the numbers game but we are winning the quality game in spades.”

Hope for the future? You bet!

 

[PXseeker]

I find it helpful to make this statement, because as someone else stated here, I too have a surname which is identified with Catholicism (Polish).

I also say it with pride.

I then go on to state that I now am an active member in a Lutheran congregation. Lutherans have rediscovered their Catholic “church roots” . We share so much.

For me, it gives the listener perspective, if they are Catholic, they know I share a lot of common upbringing, if they are Lutheran, they know my environment was different.

Important, but certainly not crucial. And definitely not intended as a slur.

Peace,
John

 

[LilyOfTheFather]

PXseeker, I come from the opposite perspective of you. I was raised a Lutheran, but converted to Catholicism when I was fifteen. This is just my personal observation, so please do not take offence. It felt to me like there was something missing in the Lutheran worship, and that empty place was filled in the Catholic Mass, with Christ being bodily present in the Blessed Sacrament.