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look3467
Guest
Either Christ died for salvation or He didn’t!
Not an iffy.
Either Christ said He will save you or He didn’t.
If He didn’t say so, then I’d be worried to death.
Peace>>>AJ
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Not an iffy.
Either Christ said He will save you or He didn’t.
If He didn’t say so, then I’d be worried to death.
Peace>>>AJ
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look3467
Guest
1beleevr, hi
This is a non Catholic thread where you are going to find different points of views.
Here you can learn, but I would weigh all responses in light of Gods love first, and then on how we worship Him.
The opportunity is given with a contrast for discernment to ourselves what is, which we want to believe.
For many, a structured establishment is a strong suit, for there is consistency and safety.
But independence is relying totally on the strength of our understanding of the words of God.
None of all of it is wrong or right, in my view, but what is in the heart that is touched by God is what is right.
Peace>>>AJ
This is a non Catholic thread where you are going to find different points of views.
Here you can learn, but I would weigh all responses in light of Gods love first, and then on how we worship Him.
The opportunity is given with a contrast for discernment to ourselves what is, which we want to believe.
For many, a structured establishment is a strong suit, for there is consistency and safety.
But independence is relying totally on the strength of our understanding of the words of God.
None of all of it is wrong or right, in my view, but what is in the heart that is touched by God is what is right.
Peace>>>AJ
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1beleevr
Guest
Hey, I know that this a debating forum; that’s one of the reasons I decided to join! And there is a lot of that going on! If we all come away with a better understanding of the Bible, and other things spiritual! The bottom line is, when it’s all said and done, it’s not going to matter whether you’re catholic or Protestant, Mormon or Jew; I don’t believe that God is going to have a clipboard, checking off to see if you went to church every Sunday, dressed up for said church, went to confession, etc. At that moment, we will all prety much be the same; children of God, who have come home to spend eternity with our Holy Father:thumbsup:
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jake23
Guest
Your probably right except for Mormons. I believe there is no way they can enter heaven, atleast without great repentance for follwing the Mormon occolt
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1beleevr
Guest
Hi, back at you look3467! I realize that this is a non-catholic thread, and that like many other discussions that I have had with others outside of this forum, I am always ready for anything! I was rebuked by a woman from a different faith for worshipping on the “wrong” Sabbath! She said,“Do you realize that you are in blatant violation of the 4th commandment?” “Am I,” I replied! Is it more important that I worship my God in prayer and song, or more important that I worship Him on a day preordained by someone who may have literally translated Biblical script? Doesn’t Sabbath mean “rest”? After working on Creation for 6 days, God rested, and declared this the Sabbath, or a day of rest, from work; set aside for worship, praise and dedication to our HOLY Father(God Almighty)! So, yes, I am ready to tackle any subject, with discernment, respect snd love!
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mercygate
Guest
It is a matter of the difference between what Christ has made possible and the absolute, perpetual assurance of knowing beyond any possibility of personal misconception or defection that what He has made possible will play out individually in our own lives.
It’s not “iffy.” It’s a question of reasonable assurance and confidence in Christ versus absolute assurance. Eternal security is a novelty in Christian thought. It is usually posed naively as if anything short of eternal security must be “insecurity” or lack of faith: a false dichotomy.
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jake23
Guest
“The less people use their minds the right way, the more opinionated they become.” I love this saying! It is protestant in a nut shell! It amazes me that poeple can open up a bible and seem to think they know what those poeple are saying without any guidance or real education!Hi, back at you look3467! I realize that this is a non-catholic thread, and that like many other discussions that I have had with others outside of this forum, I am always ready for anything! I was rebuked by a woman from a different faith for worshipping on the “wrong” Sabbath! She said,“Do you realize that you are in blatant violation of the 4th commandment?” “Am I,” I replied! Is it more important that I worship my God in prayer and song, or more important that I worship Him on a day preordained by someone who may have literally translated Biblical script? Doesn’t Sabbath mean “rest”? After working on Creation for 6 days, God rested, and declared this the Sabbath, or a day of rest, from work; set aside for worship, praise and dedication to our HOLY Father(God Almighty)! So, yes, I am ready to tackle any subject, with discernment, respect snd love!
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PJM
Guest
Wisdom + Truth + Charity = Awesome Post:tiphat: :clapping:
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jlhargus
Guest
JL: Can you give us any historical evidence for controversy in the church, after the end of Acts, concerning the Real Presence, the hierarchy etc.?
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Bubba_Switzler
Guest
There really isn’t much of anything after Acts. (See seperate thread on the mini-dark age: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=4841761)
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agent_grey
Guest
one problem. The scriptures of what we call the new testament clearly state that the leaders appointed by christ have been granted the power to forgive sins. This is absolutely stated in clear any language.
Further more the church is promised perpetual existence down to at least 2 believers.
Sola scripture or not… you decide for yourself.
Either except or reject sola scriptura or become A LIVING BREATHING CONTRADICTION! AKA Billy Goat Prot!
Further more the church is promised perpetual existence down to at least 2 believers.
Sola scripture or not… you decide for yourself.
Either except or reject sola scriptura or become A LIVING BREATHING CONTRADICTION! AKA Billy Goat Prot!
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kgilmore2
Guest
Bubba,
so if jesus meant the bread and wine to just be a symbol why did he lose followers over it? He repeated over and over again this is my body, this is my blood and when some of his followers questioned him he could have easily stated that it was symbolism but he didn’t and lost many followers becasue of it.
so if jesus meant the bread and wine to just be a symbol why did he lose followers over it? He repeated over and over again this is my body, this is my blood and when some of his followers questioned him he could have easily stated that it was symbolism but he didn’t and lost many followers becasue of it.
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Bubba_Switzler
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First, I have not taken the position here (or elsewhere) that Jesus meant it to be symbolic in the Protestant sense. Second, in this (and the Part 2 thread) I have intentionally avoided the issue of what is the truth of the matter to focus on what people believed and when. It is possible, for example, that Jesus meant Real Presence but the apostles didn’t believe it or practice it or teach it until after 70AD. Thirdly, the passage you are citing is (I presume) from the Gospel of John which was written well after 70AD and those passages are not found in the other Gospels. John is far more theological and, probably, reflective of later thinking on the subject.
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1beleevr
Guest
Hey, Bubba: In one of your posts, you were saying that no Protestants were defending their faith! Isn’t better to defend the Cross, where our wonderful Saviour gave His life for us; paying a price we couldn’t afford, for a crime He didn’t commit! And when you speak about hierarchy(fathers, bishops, etc.), do you interpret Matthew 23:9 the same way I do? You know, when Jesus said"Call no man on this earth Father(upper case). We all have fathers here on earth, but we only have one Holy Father, and He is not a pope!
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1beleevr
Guest
I was raised in a Southern Baptist home in the 50’s and 60’s! And while I don’t espouse that denomination today, I do retain many of the lessons that I learned during my years there! I learned about respecting authority, discipline in reading the Bible, respect and love for others, regardless of their race, color, origin, etc. On May 15, 1967, I publicly accepted Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour! Baptized a year later, I began this incredible journey, with Jesus which gets better all the time. And while I have been faithless at times, He has remained faithful! And while was unaware of other"religions" until my late teens and early twenties, I maintained my respect for others, instilled in me by my mother, an incredible daughter of God; who I consider my spiritual mentor. She did then, and continues to reflect Christ in her dealings with others! And while she taught me tolerance and acceptance, she also showed me how grace and mercy work hand in hand, and that having faith in Christ, will inspire one to do good works! She also taught me that hate is a very negative and hurtful thing, like it says in 1John 4:20 " For if we say we love God, but we hate a Christian brother or sister, we are liars, for if we can’t love people we can see, how can we love God whom we can’t see. Bottom line is, who cares where you go to church, or how you take communion(don’t you guys use wafers and wine?)
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dawid
Guest
He also said “hate your father” - he surely did not mean that literally either!… And when you speak about hierarchy(fathers, bishops, etc.), do you interpret Matthew 23:9 the same way I do? You know, when Jesus said"Call no man on this earth Father(upper case). We all have fathers here on earth, but we only have one Holy Father, and He is not a pope!
The pope is the head of the Church on earth and is a successor to the Office of Peter who was appointed to that role by Jesus.
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johnnydigit
Guest
the difference is like splashing your feet in the shore, versus diving in head first into the deep abyss that is the fullness of the faith Jesus gave to us in the Church.Bottom line is, who cares where you go to church, or how you take communion(don’t you guys use wafers and wine?)
the difference is like a disciple who heard about Jesus from far away, versus the Apostles who were at Jesus’ side, the Beloved who rested his head on His chest at the last supper, the one who stood with His mother at the foot of the cross. Jesus said, “let them,” even if they didn’t get it all. the disciple from far away says, “who cares… what else could there be? i heard what He said already…” oh how little does he know… he has only a grain when endless beaches are available to him (that grain of course is nothing to scoff at, it’s great!)
some of us may do fine with just a little, but i wanted it all. i wanted what the Apostles had. all of it can be found in the Catholic Church.
a little may be fine for you, but what of your children and generations to come? you short changed them. fortunately God is merciful…
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Bubba_Switzler
Guest
The problem with defending the Cross is that different people will mean different things by it. There are substantial points of disagreement and I don’t think we do anyone a service by papering them over. I agree that it is always better to focus attention on the important questions but if you don’t think I’m raising an important question nobody is twisting your arm to participate in this thread.
I would like to start a thread on the Cross at some point. I have many questions about the orthodox explanation. I would agree with you that it is the most important and fascinating element of the whole Christian story.
I don’t buy the Protestant literal interpretation and I don’t find particular fault with the Catholic hierarchy. Every human institution will create a hierarchy if only to manage their affairs. My point is that the Christian hierarchy in general, and the Priests in particular, were a later Catholic invention not found in Acts.
A am, though, sympathetic to the Protestant argument that God/Jesus should be more the focus. But then we run into the practical problem: Jesus is not walking among us anymore so the Catholic theory is that he left the Church in charge pending his return.
The Protestant theory is that the Holy Spirit is as accessible to you and I as it is to the institution of the Church but the problem there is that Protestants don’t agree with one another on many issues so they are misunderstanding the Holy Spirit or worse.
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look3467
Guest
In response the Sabbath is our rest (Jesus) and in Him we do everything.Hi, back at you look3467! I realize that this is a non-catholic thread, and that like many other discussions that I have had with others outside of this forum, I am always ready for anything! I was rebuked by a woman from a different faith for worshipping on the “wrong” Sabbath! She said,“Do you realize that you are in blatant violation of the 4th commandment?” “Am I,” I replied! Is it more important that I worship my God in prayer and song, or more important that I worship Him on a day preordained by someone who may have literally translated Biblical script? Doesn’t Sabbath mean “rest”? After working on Creation for 6 days, God rested, and declared this the Sabbath, or a day of rest, from work; set aside for worship, praise and dedication to our HOLY Father(God Almighty)! So, yes, I am ready to tackle any subject, with discernment, respect snd love!
So happens that some worship God how they understand to, which is by me is acceptable for God turns no one away.
There is only one way to worship God and that is in spirit and truth.
So, in spirit is within us and the truth is that Christ inhabits our praises.
The rest of all of it is relevant only if the heart is in it.
Peace>>>AJ
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