The Invention of Catholicism?

[PJM]

Originally Posted by ron77nyc
I keep harping on this because it relates to The Invention of Catholicism. The early church relied heavily on scripture for teaching. Thankfully the Pope is getting back to doing that.

Dear friend in Christ,

If you read the bible? And if you believe that Jesus is God? And if you believe that Jesus, because He is God cannot (a factual impossibility) tell a lie. Then you must (another factual impossibility) also believe what I have shared below.

Truth is stranger than fiction

Yep, its a fact, Jesus Christ Himself, personally, as God:

1. Invented the RCC
2. Created (to make out of nothing) His RCC
3. Instituted His RCC
4. Founded His RCC …

You have read Mt. 15: 18-20 right? If that is your idea of “invention”, I’m glad the Pope holds the “Patent!”:dancing: :extrahappy:

Mt. 16:17-20

"17* And Jesus answered him, “Blessed are you, Simon Bar-Jona! For flesh and blood has not revealed this to you, but my Father who is in heaven. 18* And I tell you, you are Peter, * and on this rock * I will build my church, and the powers of death * shall not prevail against it. 19* I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

Seems like a cut and dried slam dunk! Your right! Jesus Did it!

 

[ron77nyc]

First, the Catholic Church does not neglect the teaching of Scripture. If it did, my future MA Theology courseloead would be alot lighter, but I have to take alot of Bible Classes. Second, can we have a reliable, relevant sourrce for your bogus claim?

**You’re right too. The Church is always right. **

 

[ron77nyc]

Dear friend in Christ,

If you read the bible? And if you believe that Jesus is God? And if you believe that Jesus, because He is God cannot (a factual impossibility) tell a lie. Then you must (another factual impossibility) alos believe what I have sharred below.

Truth is stranger than fiction

Yep, its a fact, Jesus Christ Himself, personally, as God:

1. Invented the RCC
2. Created (to make out of nothing) His RCC
3. Instituted His RCC
4. Founded His RCC …

You have read Mt. 15: 18-20 right? If that is your idea of “invention”, I’m glad the Pope holds the “Patent!”:dancing: :extrahappy:

Yes, you are right also. The Church is right about everything and everyone who does not agree with the Catholic church is wrong.

 

[PJM]

Yes, you are right also. The Church is right about everything and everyone who does not agree with the Catholic church is wrong.

No! No! my dear friend,

Not everything!

Only everything in regards Faith and Morals. That’s all

Love and prayers,

 

[jake23]

The catholic church gos through the new testament in mass through out the year! I would rather listen to 20 minutes of scripture told right than hours of protestant interpretation which is wrong! Are you protestants on this sight to learn about christs church aka the catholic church or are you just here to amuse us with silly uneducated remarks?

 

[CWBetts]

**You’re right too. The Church is always right. **

I see you have no evidence…just as I thought. But anyways, the Church has never been wrong in matters of Doctrine, Faith, or Morals. It is protected from these errors by the Holy Spirit. But there have been Catholics who have acted wrongly. We are mere men. There is a distinction here. But what Protestants don’t seem to fathom is that they have each become theor own personal Popes.

 

[codebilly]

You’re right. It’s all my fault.

Ron,

You don’t have to should the blame for all of those ex-catholic who converted to the Jehovah Witnesses.

But thanks for the thought.

 

[elvisman]

Substituting scripture readings at mass for bible study is like telling a child who always wanted piano lessons “We always played music in the house.”

My point was that the “experts” don’t take into consideration that Catholis read the bible and are taught every week - whether they admit it or not.

I was born into Catholicism and I went to Mass every Sunday. I attended one of the best Catholic high schools in New York in the 1960’s just after Vatican II and the good brothers were seeking new ways to teach religion but no one ever considered teaching the bible. I realize bible studies are becoming more common in Catholic churches but still not easy to find. If you have one at your church you are very fortunate. The American Catholic church today is ahead of the rest of the Catholics in the world concerning the bible. My comments are directed more at the history of Catholicism than Catholicism today.

**I still don’t get your point.
Jut because you can’t find a bible study in your parish doesn’t mean that the Church isn’t the Church that Jesus established.

So, what IS your point?

 

[ron77nyc]

No! No! my dear friend,

Not everything!

Only everything in regards Faith and Morals. That’s all

Love and prayers,

The Church changed its teaching about salvation for those who are not Catholic, those who commit suicide and unbaptized infants. That means they got it wrong the first time.

 

[ron77nyc]

My point was that the "experts" don’t take into consideration that Catholis read the bible and are taught every week - whether they admit it or not.

**I *still ***don’t get your point.
Jut because you can’t find a bible study in your parish doesn’t mean that the Church isn’t the Church that Jesus established.

So, what IS your point?

I didn’t start the thread. I believe the Catholic church is the church Christ started but I agree with the originator of the thread because I think it mutated into something that was not intended by Christ.

 

[ron77nyc]

The catholic church gos through the new testament in mass through out the year! I would rather listen to 20 minutes of scripture told right than hours of protestant interpretation which is wrong! Are you protestants on this sight to learn about christs church aka the catholic church or are you just here to amuse us with silly uneducated remarks?

I’m not a protestant. I would rather listen to a catholic priest give a bible study or better yet the pope. I’d also like to hear a priest explain the readings at a mass. Sometimes you get that. Sometimes you don’t.

 

[elvisman]

I didn’t start the thread. I believe the Catholic church is the church Christ started but I agree with the originator of the thread because I think it mutated into something that was not intended by Christ.

Okay - how so?
Because, by your logic and Jesus promise to his Church in Matt. 16:18 and John 16:13-15, Jesus is nothing but a liar.

Please enlighten me.

 

[ron77nyc]

Ron,

You don’t have to should the blame for all of those ex-catholic who converted to the Jehovah Witnesses.

But thanks for the thought.

I don’t blame myself for that. Most of it happened before I was born because all those devout Catholics who sat in mass every week and heard those readings unexplained in a 3 year cycle never knew “the word was ‘a’ god” is an incorrect translation.

 

[ron77nyc]

Okay - how so?
Because, by your logic and Jesus promise to his Church in Matt. 16:18 and John 16:13-15, Jesus is nothing but a liar.

Please enlighten me.

I agree with the originator of the thread because I think it mutated into something that was not intended by Christ.

The church is not supposed to be a group of elders sitting around making up rules for people to follow which they themselves don’t follow. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing that. Take for example the sex scandal. They all played a part in the cover up. It was like any other group of men; a baseball team, police department, office workers. They all stuck together and protected themselves rather than protecting the children. Then there is no meat on Friday except when it falls on St. Patrick’s day. It’s a mortal sin in one diocese but drive a few miles to another diocese and you can eat all you want guilt free.

 

[jmcrae]

The church is not supposed to be a group of elders sitting around making up rules for people to follow which they themselves don’t follow.

And where are these people? I don’t know of any priest or Bishop who makes up rules that he then doesn’t follow.

Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing that. Take for example the sex scandal. They all played a part in the cover up. It was like any other group of men; a baseball team, police department, office workers. They all stuck together and protected themselves rather than protecting the children.

What rule did they make up and then not follow, in this instance? (They sinned against the sixth and eighth Commandments of God; they weren’t making anything up, here.)

Then there is no meat on Friday except when it falls on St. Patrick’s day. It’s a mortal sin in one diocese but drive a few miles to another diocese and you can eat all you want guilt free.

First, this is a matter of discipline, which falls to the Bishop - if he wants to allow people to eat meat on St. Patrick’s Day (if he has a large population of persons with Irish ancestry in his Diocese, for example), he has that right. He isn’t “making something up” in the manner of the Pharisees with regard to the law of korban (which seems to have been invented out of thin air).

Second, if you don’t live in that Diocese, you are still bound by the discipline of your own Diocese; you can’t just cross over the border on St. Patrick’s Day and suddenly be allowed to eat meat, if your Bishop was telling you not to, at home.

 

[elvisman]

The church is not supposed to be a group of elders sitting around making up rules for people to follow which they themselves don’t follow. Jesus condemned the Pharisees for doing that. Take for example the sex scandal. They all played a part in the cover up. It was like any other group of men; a baseball team, police department, office workers. They all stuck together and protected themselves rather than protecting the children. Then there is no meat on Friday except when it falls on St. Patrick’s day. It’s a mortal sin in one diocese but drive a few miles to another diocese and you can eat all you want guilt free.

Which group? Which rules?
Your claim that "they all stuck together" is not only inaccurate - it’s a lie. Is that how you represent your Church (assuming you’re part of it) - with statements like this?

Not eating meat on Fridays is a discipline - not a doctrine for which exceptions can be made for cultural reasons. You don’t even know enough about that to be making such ludicrous statements.

**You still haven’t answered my question. Was Jesus a liar?

 

[ron77nyc]

Which group? Which rules?
Your claim that "they all stuck together" is not only inaccurate - it’s a lie. Is that how you represent your Church (assuming you’re part of it) - with statements like this?

You’re in denial about this one.

Not eating meat on Fridays is a discipline - not a doctrine for which exceptions can be made for cultural reasons. You don’t even know enough about that to be making such ludicrous statements.

Any discipline that is punishable by death (mortal sin) is not just a discipline and why don’t those bishops who like eating corned beef on discipline themselves on St. Patty’s Day?

**You still haven’t answered my question. *Was ***Jesus a liar?

Jesus didn’t lie about anything so don’t try to accuse me of saying that. He said He would be with His church until the end that means even if they don’t follow His word and teach it as He did.

 

[jmcrae]

Any discipline that is punishable by death (mortal sin) is not just a discipline and why don’t those bishops who like eating corned beef on discipline themselves on St. Patty’s Day?

First of all, this year, St. Patrick’s Day is going to be on a Tuesday this year, so it isn’t an issue - we can eat meat (incuding corned beef) on Tuesdays. On the rare years that it happens to fall on a Friday, if there is a large population of Irish Catholics in an area, the Bishops will lift the restriction on eating meat that day, to facilitate the Irish celebrating their Patron Saint’s feast day. Note that the restriction is lifted for everyone; not just for the Bishops.

So far, I have never met any Bishops who eat meat on Fridays as a general thing - unless (and again, here’s a rule that applies to all of us; not just to Bishops) someone places a meal before them that contains meat (not knowing that we don’t eat meat on Fridays), and out of consideration for the person who made the meal, they eat it, meat and all, without raising a fuss. (I Corinthians 10:27)

 

[ron77nyc]

You’re in denial about this one.

Any discipline that is punishable by death (mortal sin) is not just a discipline and why don’t those bishops who like eating corned beef discipline themselves on St. Patty’s Day?

Jesus didn’t lie about anything so don’t try to accuse me of saying that. He said He would be with His church until the end that means even if they don’t follow His word and teach it as He did.

 

[ron77nyc]

First of all, this year, St. Patrick’s Day is going to be on a Tuesday this year, so it isn’t an issue - we can eat meat (incuding corned beef) on Tuesdays. On the rare years that it happens to fall on a Friday, if there is a large population of Irish Catholics in an area, the Bishops will lift the restriction on eating meat that day, to facilitate the Irish celebrating their Patron Saint’s feast day. Note that the restriction is lifted for everyone; not just for the Bishops.

So far, I have never met any Bishops who eat meat on Fridays as a general thing - unless (and again, here’s a rule that applies to all of us; not just to Bishops) someone places a meal before them that contains meat (not knowing that we don’t eat meat on Fridays), and out of consideration for the person who made the meal, they eat it, meat and all, without raising a fuss. (I Corinthians 10:27)

That’s OK but let’s not get sidetracked. Is this what Jesus had in mind when He trusted Peter with the keys to the kingdom?