The Jesuits and their charism?

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Because of another thread I have decided to open this one up. Br. JR has shared much about his beloved Franciscan order, which I’ve learned much and have much more respect for St. Francis than I ever did. Some of you might know that I am currently in a Jesuit university, where I’ve taken up Theology with a minor in Catholic studies. On the other thread I read that the Jesuits have more freedom when it comes to theology, why is that? What is their charism? Where has all the bad press on the Jesuits come from?

I notice that they take up a vow of poverty, but one look into the campus and their “lifestyle” at my campus shows otherwise. I am only trying to understand them and how much they differ from the rest of the orders. From the short history I’ve read it seems that they started out defending the faith, now it seems all they want to do is question it. Again this is only what I see, am I missing something?
 
Because of another thread I have decided to open this one up.

Some of you might know that I am currently in a Jesuit university, where I’ve taken up Theology with a minor in Catholic studies. On the other thread I read that the Jesuits have more freedom when it comes to theology, why is that? What is their charism? Where has all the bad press on the Jesuits come from?

I notice that they take up a vow of poverty, but one look into the campus and their “lifestyle” at my campus shows otherwise. I am only trying to understand them and how much they differ from the rest of the orders.
First you have to understand that the Jesuits began with all kinds of exceptions. St. Ignatius wanted to found a society of priests that would combat heresy, do mission work, preach and teach. These men were to be a community bound by vows of poverty, obedience and chastity and they were to make a fourth vow to go where the pope needed them.

At the same time, Ignatius wanted them to be free of the structure of religious life. At the time there were two models of religious life: monks and friars. Monks were enclosed and friars had monastic practices, but were active and took their practices on the road, in a manner of speaking. They did not need to live in a monastery, as long as they lived in fraternities.

This was too confining for the idea that Ignatius had in mind. The pope accepted the Society of Jesus as the last religious order to be founded in the Church’s history. No more religious orders were ever founded after the Jesuits. The pope gave Ignatius permission to found a society without a rule of life. By not having a rule of life, each Jesuit is free to cultivate his own way of life and his own spirituality. Also, they are not bound to live in community, because there is no rule to command that.

Ignatius wrote statutes for the Jesuits, with the understanding that they could change them, add to them and delete according to the needs of the time, their own needs as individuals and as a community, and their preferences… This was not the case for the other religious orders. The other orders were bound to live according to the mind of the founder and not a letter of the founder’s wishes could be changed by anyone except the pope, not so for the Jesuits. They could change anything that Ignatius wrote for them.

The pope also allowed them to live independently. They do not pray together, share meals, or have too many mandatory community activities. They are still a fraternity, with each Jesuit contributing to the welfare of the order and caring for each other when they are sick or old. When possible, they live and work together. But if the need arises, they live alone too. St. Francis Xavier never lived in community once he left Spain. He prayed alone, cultivate his own spiritual life and supported himself. However, he was still a religious, besides being a priest. He had to write back to the superior and keep him informed of his work and spiritual progress. He also had to take orders from the superior.

They also received permission to own as much property as necessary to achieve their work. They do not own individual property. Everything that a Jesuit has and uses belongs to the order. The superior can take it away at any time.

They were also given wider parameters than other religious orders to study theology, to tease out conflicts in theological ideas, to discuss subjects that were forbidden to others. Of course, this made them sound very different and at one time they were suppressed. Their suppression was really unfair. The Franciscans were responsible for this. They accused the Jesuits of heresy and dissent. The Franciscans would later recant and to this day, we are still making it up to the Jesuits.

Unfortunately, so much freedom can be dangerous. The Jesuits have certainly found this out the hard way. Many of their men have gone beyond teasing out controversial issues in theology and far beyond trying to understand dissenting ideas. Many have been pulled into these ideas. This put them on a collision course with the Church. This is not a fault of the order, St. Ignatius or the Church. It is a very human reality. Many human beings cannot handle so much freedom and they pulled into what I call a black hole.

Because they are so large, it has always been very difficult for their general superior to reign in the dissenters. We’re talking about 20,000 men, on a low vocation day.

The truth is that they have made a very significant contribution to the missions, education, theology, ministry to the poor and they have forced the Church to examine and think about things that the hierarchy simply hoped would go away.

The current Jesuits actually have a very good relationship with the Holy Father. At their last general chapter, which they call the general congregation, the came out with a beautiful decree of fidelity to Pope Benedict. During the recent dialogue with the SSPX, they were asked to provide theologians to work on the committee with Opus Dei, the Dominicans and Cardinal Levada. The Holy See still recognizes them as the brightest minds in the Church and among the best theologians that we have, along with Dominicans, Opus Dei and the Congregation of the Holy Cross, the community that runs Notre Dame.

They are really very humble too, which they don’t often get credit for. Jesuits often work in horrible conditions that no one else will go into and they go into it alone, with little or no money and no other Jesuit for support. They have a rule never to accept being appointed bishop. Nor do they accept positions of authority in the Church. The Jesuits who have been bishops had to be granted a dispensation from their law first, so as to liberate them to accept.

There is much more to them, but this is good enough for starters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
Wow Br Jr thank you so much!! I kind of feel special now receiving an education from them. I never really knew they had an interesting history. When it comes to the Franciscans, what caused them to butt-heads with the Jesuits?
 
Yes, thank you Br. JR.

I remember learning that the Jesuits were first to introduce concepts of inculturation to the mission in Japan (or was it China)? The “Black Robes” also were the first amongst our people in North America when the Europeans discovered North America.

The remarkable missionary skillls and utiliziation of cutlures to proclaim and evangelize the indigenous community is a lesson that we still can draw from today.

Even in my own passion to talk about the potential devlopment of an Aboriginal theology that could look at bridging the Native American indigenous spiritual experience and the church I have been very much encouraged by private members of the Jesuit order…

It is no surprise that these men get themselves in hot water once in a while…they are truly, in my mind a prophetic order, and prophets **** established views off…

I look forward to learning more!

Bruce Ferguson
Trickster
 
In a nutshell, there was a lot of tension between the secular state and the Church in different countries. It was the 18th century. New philosophies were emerging in Europe. Most of them were anti-clerical and anti-Catholic. They were spreading throughout Europe and her colonies, including the American colonies. The suppression was not in one fell swoop. It was country by country: France, Portugal, Spain, 13 American Colonies, Naples, Philippines, and Parma. The Jesuits survived by fleeing to those states that were not under Catholic influence.

Different courts accused them of interfering in the affairs of state, of plotting against the government, stealing from the poor and manipulating the legal system. This was all false. The truth was that the Jesuits were the largest, wealthiest and most popular religious order in Europe and abroad. The intelligencia was leaning toward secularism and what one may even label as a primitive form of Socialism. The Jesuits were a threat to this group of elite scholars. They were also a threat to the emerging nations, because the Jesuits challenged their religious neutrality, which they preferred to call freedom of religion. The emerging governments were in need of funds and the Jesuits had lots of money and property. Suppressing them provided a justification to confiscate their assets.

The conflict between the European states and the Jesuits aggravated the already strained relations between the Church and civil authorities. The second largest order at the time was the Franciscans. They were being executed by these anti-clerical governments. They blamed it on the Jesuits. They looked at the Jesuits as instigators who couldn’t keep their mouths shut. The truth was that the Jesuits were scholars and the new governments had questionable philosophical principals, including the American rebels. As scholars, the Jesuits read right through their fancy language. For example, after the writing of the American Constitution, the Jesuits at Georgetown charged the newly formed federal government of bigotry worse than England. That turned some heads and made the Church very uncomfortable.

It was no secret that George Washington hated Catholics. He had written letters against Catholics, letters that found their way to then Bishop Carroll. Washington warned his political cronies to be careful with the Papists, because their allegiance to the new nation was questionable, as they professed allegiance to the Vatican. He also directed the “conversion” of American Catholics by impressing upon them that they were Americans first and then Catholics. Washington succeeded, but that’s another story.

The Jesuits were right. The Founding Fathers were bigots and they wrote the constitution in such a way that it protected bigotry. While it said that all men were created equal, the unwritten part was that the men to whom they referred were white and wealthy males. This excluded females, blacks, Native Americans, and poor whites, especially Catholics.

In Europe, the Franciscans did not feel safe with what they perceived as instigation on the part of the Jesuits. The Franciscans knew that the emerging European governments were anti-clerical and some were visibly anti-Catholic, but they hoped that if the Jesuits would just remain quiet, their work would continue. At the time, Clement XIV was the pope. But Clement was a Franciscan Friar. The Franciscans had his attention and protection. The complaints kept coming in. As they came in, Pope Clement accepted the suppression of the Jesuits, country by country starting in 1773 and going forward.

After the Napoleanic wars, in the 19th century, the Church realized that a terrible injustice had been done to the Jesuits. There was a change in the political climate in Europe and monarchs who were friendlier toward the Catholic Church came to power. Pope Pius VII reinstated the Jesuits to all the countries where they had been suppressed. The Franciscans recanted their claim that the Jesuits were troublemakers and accepted that the real problem were the new philosophers and politicians that had surfaced in the late 17th century until the latter part of the 18th century. They apologized to the Jesuits and have been their protectors ever since.

Contrary to what most laymen believe, the Jesuits were never suppressed for theological reasons, but for political reasons. That’s why Franciscans defend them against the laity. Because the Franciscans know the truth. Our order was instrumental in the injustice against the Jesuits. They were labeled as unorthodox, when in fact, they were innocent. Their only fault was challenging the government, the new scholars and the secularist democratic philosophy of the time. The Jesuits predicted that if democracy was not reigned in, it would lead to a moral collapse that would make Greece and Rome look like child’s play.

They were not against democracy. In fact, they were one of the most democratic religious orders of the time. They were afraid that democracy was becoming an end, instead of a means. They were right. That’s it in a nutshell.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
I’m going to follow this thread. 😃 (No surprise there.)

@trickster: Have you watched “The Mission”, starring Robert de Niro and Jeremy Irons? It’s about the experiences of a Jesuit missionary with the Guarani tribe in what is now Paraguay. You might have an interest in that.
 
In Europe, the Franciscans did not feel safe with what they perceived as instigation on the part of the Jesuits. The Franciscans knew that the emerging European governments were anti-clerical and some were visibly anti-Catholic, but they hoped that if the Jesuits would just remain quiet, their work would continue. At the time, Clement XIV was the pope. But Clement was a Franciscan Friar. The Franciscans had his attention and protection. The complaints kept coming in. As they came in, Pope Clement accepted the suppression of the Jesuits, country by country starting in 1773 and going forward.

After the Napoleanic wars, in the 19th century, the Church realized that a terrible injustice had been done to the Jesuits. There was a change in the political climate in Europe and monarchs who were friendlier toward the Catholic Church came to power. Pope Pius VII reinstated the Jesuits to all the countries where they had been suppressed. The Franciscans recanted their claim that the Jesuits were troublemakers and accepted that the real problem were the new philosophers and politicians that had surfaced in the late 17th century until the latter part of the 18th century. They apologized to the Jesuits and have been their protectors ever since.

Contrary to what most laymen believe, the Jesuits were never suppressed for theological reasons, but for political reasons. That’s why Franciscans defend them against the laity. Because the Franciscans know the truth. Our order was instrumental in the injustice against the Jesuits. They were labeled as unorthodox, when in fact, they were innocent. Their only fault was challenging the government, the new scholars and the secularist democratic philosophy of the time. The Jesuits predicted that if democracy was not reigned in, it would lead to a moral collapse that would make Greece and Rome look like child’s play.

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
It’s rather funny you mentioned this Bro. JR. I’ve seen a painting by Carlos S. de Tejada depicting the death of Ignatius. In that painting he included Franciscan Friars. 🙂

jesuitinstitute.org/Pictures/LifeTejada/10%20Death%20of%20Ignatius.jpg

The rest is here.
 
Jesuits are companions of Jesus, and that is why many people are attracted to them, and that is why many people hate them.
Brother Jr, I appreciate your posts very much, but I cannot agree about Jesuits being ‘soldiers’ and ‘fighting heresy’.
‘To help souls’ is how Ignatius put it himself, and ‘men for others’ is the term coined by late Fr. Arrupe.
I would suggest that to understand Jesuit charism, one should start with reading A Pilgrim’s Journey.
 
I’m going to follow this thread. 😃 (No surprise there.)

@trickster: Have you watched “The Mission”, starring Robert de Niro and Jeremy Irons? It’s about the experiences of a Jesuit missionary with the Guarani tribe in what is now Paraguay. You might have an interest in that.
Yes, I enjoyed the movie very much…there was some actual interesting background research that went into that film…about the indigenous ways and the ways of the Black Robes…too…
 
Brother JR, thank you for your teaching about the Jesuits. A couple in our parish have a son who studying to be a Jesuit–It takes 11 years!

However, It is not true anymore that they cannot be Bishops, because the Bishop of my Diocese is a Jesuit–the Rev. George Vance Murry, SJ. I think it is rare though for this to happen.
 
I read some some of their history and they were a remarkable group, on fire for God. Their suppression was horrible and very sad.
Unfortunately, so much freedom can be dangerous. The Jesuits have certainly found this out the hard way. Many of their men have gone beyond teasing out controversial issues in theology and far beyond trying to understand dissenting ideas. Many have been pulled into these ideas.
Is that why nowadays they have the reputation of not really following Church teaching? This is the first thing I heard about the Jesuits. When I read their history I was in awe.
 
I read some some of their history and they were a remarkable group, on fire for God. Their suppression was horrible and very sad.

However, without putting down an order, I heard they are not what they used to be, to put it mildly and have the reputation of not really being faithful to Church teachings anymore. Is that true?
They are intellectuals, they will always “push the envelope”, challenge preconceived notions and make people think “outside the box”!
Which is why I think I am so drawn to them. 😃

I really dislike reading comments like this- it’s never the order, it’s always one or 2members who go to far, then the whole community gets labeled- this really needs to stop! :mad:
 
They are intellectuals, they will always “push the envelope”, challenge preconceived notions and make people think “outside the box”!
Which is why I think I am so drawn to them. 😃

I really dislike reading comments like this- it’s never the order, it’s always one or 2members who go to far, then the whole community gets labeled- this really needs to stop! :mad:
Excellent point Oneofthewoman, that is why I am attracted to the Jesuits as well

Bruce Ferguson
 
People are attracted to them because some of their Priests push the envelope and flirt with heresy? How bizarre. There are many reasons to love the Jesuits, and that isn’t one of them.
 
I really dislike reading comments like this- it’s never the order, it’s always one or 2members who go to far, then the whole community gets labeled- this really needs to stop! :mad:
I did the best I could in stating what I heard without putting down the order. Surely I am allowed a question for clarification? And I had actually amended my post somewhat around the time you were answering.
 
I read some some of their history and they were a remarkable group, on fire for God. Their suppression was horrible and very sad.

Is that why nowadays they have the reputation of not really following Church teaching? This is the first thing I heard about the Jesuits. When I read their history I was in awe.
They are remarkable. They are known to be great thinkers and intellectuals. The Jesuits run our parish church and we are very happy with them. I am not sure where you got your information from but I do know they are sound in doctrine.
 
First you have to understand that the Jesuits began with all kinds of exceptions. St. Ignatius wanted to found a society of priests that would combat heresy, do mission work, preach and teach. These men were to be a community bound by vows of poverty, obedience and chastity and they were to make a fourth vow to go where the pope needed them.

At the same time, Ignatius wanted them to be free of the structure of religious life. At the time there were two models of religious life: monks and friars. Monks were enclosed and friars had monastic practices, but were active and took their practices on the road, in a manner of speaking. They did not need to live in a monastery, as long as they lived in fraternities.

This was too confining for the idea that Ignatius had in mind. The pope accepted the Society of Jesus as the last religious order to be founded in the Church’s history. No more religious orders were ever founded after the Jesuits. The pope gave Ignatius permission to found a society without a rule of life. By not having a rule of life, each Jesuit is free to cultivate his own way of life and his own spirituality. Also, they are not bound to live in community, because there is no rule to command that.

Ignatius wrote statutes for the Jesuits, with the understanding that they could change them, add to them and delete according to the needs of the time, their own needs as individuals and as a community, and their preferences… This was not the case for the other religious orders. The other orders were bound to live according to the mind of the founder and not a letter of the founder’s wishes could be changed by anyone except the pope, not so for the Jesuits. They could change anything that Ignatius wrote for them.

The pope also allowed them to live independently. They do not pray together, share meals, or have too many mandatory community activities. They are still a fraternity, with each Jesuit contributing to the welfare of the order and caring for each other when they are sick or old. When possible, they live and work together. But if the need arises, they live alone too. St. Francis Xavier never lived in community once he left Spain. He prayed alone, cultivate his own spiritual life and supported himself. However, he was still a religious, besides being a priest. He had to write back to the superior and keep him informed of his work and spiritual progress. He also had to take orders from the superior.

They also received permission to own as much property as necessary to achieve their work. They do not own individual property. Everything that a Jesuit has and uses belongs to the order. The superior can take it away at any time.

They were also given wider parameters than other religious orders to study theology, to tease out conflicts in theological ideas, to discuss subjects that were forbidden to others. Of course, this made them sound very different and at one time they were suppressed. Their suppression was really unfair. The Franciscans were responsible for this. They accused the Jesuits of heresy and dissent. The Franciscans would later recant and to this day, we are still making it up to the Jesuits.

Unfortunately, so much freedom can be dangerous. The Jesuits have certainly found this out the hard way. Many of their men have gone beyond teasing out controversial issues in theology and far beyond trying to understand dissenting ideas. Many have been pulled into these ideas. This put them on a collision course with the Church. This is not a fault of the order, St. Ignatius or the Church. It is a very human reality. Many human beings cannot handle so much freedom and they pulled into what I call a black hole.

Because they are so large, it has always been very difficult for their general superior to reign in the dissenters. We’re talking about 20,000 men, on a low vocation day.

The truth is that they have made a very significant contribution to the missions, education, theology, ministry to the poor and they have forced the Church to examine and think about things that the hierarchy simply hoped would go away.

The current Jesuits actually have a very good relationship with the Holy Father. At their last general chapter, which they call the general congregation, the came out with a beautiful decree of fidelity to Pope Benedict. During the recent dialogue with the SSPX, they were asked to provide theologians to work on the committee with Opus Dei, the Dominicans and Cardinal Levada. The Holy See still recognizes them as the brightest minds in the Church and among the best theologians that we have, along with Dominicans, Opus Dei and the Congregation of the Holy Cross, the community that runs Notre Dame.

They are really very humble too, which they don’t often get credit for. Jesuits often work in horrible conditions that no one else will go into and they go into it alone, with little or no money and no other Jesuit for support. They have a rule never to accept being appointed bishop. Nor do they accept positions of authority in the Church. The Jesuits who have been bishops had to be granted a dispensation from their law first, so as to liberate them to accept.

There is much more to them, but this is good enough for starters.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
Thank you Brother. This is all so interesting and enlightening. My parish church is run by Jesuits and so this is of special interest to me.
 
Brother JR, thank you for your teaching about the Jesuits. A couple in our parish have a son who studying to be a Jesuit–It takes 11 years!

However, It is not true anymore that they cannot be Bishops, because the Bishop of my Diocese is a Jesuit–the Rev. George Vance Murry, SJ. I think it is rare though for this to happen.
Br Jr said “They have a rule never to accept being appointed bishop. Nor do they accept positions of authority in the Church. The Jesuits who have been bishops had to be granted a dispensation from their law first, so as to liberate them to accept.”

I am guessing the same applies to your Bishop?
 
It’s interesting as I see almost everyone in my class falling asleep I am the only one just soaking in all that knowledge from my professor. The Jesuits are an interesting bunch. Thanks again Br. for answering my questions. I did not know the Jesuits and Franciscans that a strong relationship.
 
It’s rather funny you mentioned this Bro. JR. I’ve seen a painting by Carlos S. de Tejada depicting the death of Ignatius. In that painting he included Franciscan Friars. 🙂

jesuitinstitute.org/Pictures/LifeTejada/10%20Death%20of%20Ignatius.jpg

The rest is here.
The Jesuits were very much love during the 16th century, especially by Dominicans, Franciscan and Carmelites. It’s rather interesting, because the three orders would bicker back and forth over politics, philosophy and theology all the time. However, to the credit of the Dominicans, Carmelites and Franciscans, unlike other Catholics, they are very patient with the Jesuits and they understand them. Look at the Franciscans on EWTN. Fr. Mitch is their fair haired child.
Jesuits are companions of Jesus, and that is why many people are attracted to them, and that is why many people hate them.
Brother Jr, I appreciate your posts very much, but I cannot agree about Jesuits being ‘soldiers’ and ‘fighting heresy’.
‘To help souls’ is how Ignatius put it himself, and ‘men for others’ is the term coined by late Fr. Arrupe.
I would suggest that to understand Jesuit charism, one should start with reading A Pilgrim’s Journey.
One has to remember that Fr. Arrupe (RIP) and Ignatius are not the same person. Unlike Franciscans and Benedictines who have very little wiggle room to deviate from the founder and his vision, the Jesuits were given all the room in the world. The are the only religious order in the world that does not follow a rule. They are not bound to Ignatius in any way. They follow his spirituality. But his statutes have been rewritten many times over. Each General is an autocrat. The Jesuits don’t even elect their superiors. The provincial superiors elect the general superior who the appoints the next generation of provincial superiors according to his agenda for the order, not according to Igantius’ agenda. That is contrary to their charism.
Brother JR, thank you for your teaching about the Jesuits. A couple in our parish have a son who studying to be a Jesuit–It takes 11 years!

However, It is not true anymore that they cannot be Bishops, because the Bishop of my Diocese is a Jesuit–the Rev. George Vance Murry, SJ. I think it is rare though for this to happen.
This is still in their satutes. Every time a Jesuit is asked to be a bishop, he has to be given a dispensation in order to accept.
I read some some of their history and they were a remarkable group, on fire for God. Their suppression was horrible and very sad.

Is that why nowadays they have the reputation of not really following Church teaching? This is the first thing I heard about the Jesuits. When I read their history I was in awe.
You’re a new comer to Catholicism. Let me give you a word of advise from one who has been around for a long time. Catholics can be very mean to their own. The attack of the world on the Catholic Church is probably more the fault of the Catholic man and woman, than of the non-Catholic. Catholics will trash any Catholic individual or organization who either makes a mistake or who appears to make a mistake.

Some people like to think that it’s part of being honest. As a spiritual director, I believe that honesty without charity and justice is deceitful hostility.

There have been many Jesuits who have been problem children and loose canons. There are many more who are very holy and faithful men. In a family of 20,000, there are going to be loose canons. As we know, the squeaky wheel gets the oil. The loose canons tend to shoot off their mouths more often and more loudly. It’s unfortunate that we still have Catholics who lack the sense of justice and intellectual honest to see this for what it is. If you have a family of five and you have one problem child, you have a family where 20% are problematic. Now you have a family of 20,000, where 1/20 is a problem child. Who has the bigger problems? You do the math. When Catholics, laity, religious and clergy alike, learn to hold their tongue and deal with their brothers and sisters with fairness, discretion, firmness and honesty, the secular media and the anti-Catholic world will starve to death. We’re the ones feeding our own to the sharks.
People are attracted to them because some of their Priests push the envelope and flirt with heresy? How bizarre. There are many reasons to love the Jesuits, and that isn’t one of them.
You have to be kind here. It is their Church given mission to test the limits. They are not monks or friars. Remember, they began as an exception to every rule that existed in the books about religious life. However, thanks to them, we have over 3,000 religious congregations in the Church. The Jesuits were the last religious order ever founded. They introduced the idea of religious congregations, an idea that they borrowed from Luther. Had they not taken a closer look at Protestantism, this may have taken a longer time to arrive in the Church. Look at all the great things that religious congregations have done for the Church. The orders couldn’t do most of this. They were not founded for these projects.

By “flirting” with heresy, they also discovered much that could help the Church. It is one thing to check it out and another to become a heretic. The Jesuits don’t have any more heretics than any other order does.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF 🙂
 
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