The Jesus Prayer

[Alexander_Roman]

Yes, those beads were simply meant to be a “pause” as St Basil the Great had envisioned them. (What you have in your hands is sometimes called the “Chotki of St Basil the Great” with dividers every 25 knots).

We may say the prayer to the Theotokos on them.

The Old Believers divided the 100 steps of their leather Lestovka differently but kept the three dividers on which they say either the Byzantine Hail Mary or else the prayer of the Good Thief "Remember me O Lord when You come into Your kingdom (on the first one) Remember me O Master when You come into Your kingdom (on the second one) and Remember me O Holy One when You come into Your kingdom (on the third one).

But you can have your own prayer. In one source I have, the three divider beads are said to refer to the three-fold division of the psalmic Kathisma (which is highly unlikely, I should think).

Alex

 

[Phillip_Rolfes]

Yes, those beads were simply meant to be a “pause” as St Basil the Great had envisioned them. (What you have in your hands is sometimes called the “Chotki of St Basil the Great” with dividers every 25 knots).

We may say the prayer to the Theotokos on them.

The Old Believers divided the 100 steps of their leather Lestovka differently but kept the three dividers on which they say either the Byzantine Hail Mary or else the prayer of the Good Thief "Remember me O Lord when You come into Your kingdom (on the first one) Remember me O Master when You come into Your kingdom (on the second one) and Remember me O Holy One when You come into Your kingdom (on the third one).

But you can have your own prayer. In one source I have, the three divider beads are said to refer to the three-fold division of the psalmic Kathisma (which is highly unlikely, I should think).

Alex

Thanks for this bit of information, Alex. I had tried to respond earlier, but as Providence would have it I lost my internet connection. As it turns out your response is much better than mine, as usual. : up:

 

[Symeon]

Shalom brothers and sisters in Christ,

I read about the article on ‘Is Yoga harmful for Catholics’ recently. Upon looking at the picture on the article which is the yoga poses, I felt it is somehow similar to the poses we do for Jesus’s prayer. Does Jesus’s prayer rooted in Yoga or I am just thinking irrationally? Correct me if I’m wrong. Thanks for the reply in-advance.

Lee, we don’t do poses for the Jesus prayer. While it is true that there are some physical techniques mentioned in the spiritual literature, such as certain postures and ways of breathing, these are only methods of quieting the mind and in no way part of the essence of the Prayer.

The practice of the Jesus Prayer is a loving encounter and relationship with a Person, an encounter that has the power to transform us. It cannot be brought about by any sort of techniques; it is only by grace.

Therefore the Jesus Prayer really has nothing in common with Yoga. In fact, you will find many Eastern Fathers warning against the use postures/breathing exercises, etc…, without being under the direction of a spiritual father, because these things can lead to delusion. e.g. they can bring about sensations or altered states of consciousness that are mistaken for a real “spiritual” experience, but are in fact of our own making (or worse.)

Hope this helps
God Bless
Symeon

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Thanks for this bit of information, Alex. I had tried to respond earlier, but as Providence would have it I lost my internet connection. As it turns out your response is much better than mine, as usual. : up:

Not at all, Master Rolfes!! We could also nickname you “Bead the Venerable!”

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Lee, we don’t do poses for the Jesus prayer. While it is true that there are some physical techniques mentioned in the spiritual literature, such as certain postures and ways of breathing, these are only methods of quieting the mind and in no way part of the essence of the Prayer.

The practice of the Jesus Prayer is a loving encounter and relationship with a Person, an encounter that has the power to transform us. It cannot be brought about by any sort of techniques; it is only by grace.

Therefore the Jesus Prayer really has nothing in common with Yoga. In fact, you will find many Eastern Fathers warning against the use postures/breathing exercises, etc…, without being under the direction of a spiritual father, because these things can lead to delusion. e.g. they can bring about sensations or altered states of consciousness that are mistaken for a real “spiritual” experience, but are in fact of our own making (or worse.)

Hope this helps
God Bless
Symeon

This reminds me of Tsar Alexis IV and how he would make 1,000 prostrations with the Jesus Prayer a day (and 1,500 daily during Lent).

Two Antiochian representatives visiting Moscow joined the Tsar in his devotions and later wrote that they couldn’t stand on their feet for two days . . .

So “sensations” and 'altered states" seem to be part of the experience here too

St Amphilochius of Pochaiv was visited by some students who told him they suffered from insomnia and nervousness - could he recommend something? So the Ven. Amphilochius prescribed 500 daily prostrations . . . The students later came back to say that both of their conditions were now permanently cured!

Alex

 

[Cecilianus]

This reminds me of Tsar Alexis IV and how he would make 1,000 prostrations with the Jesus Prayer a day (and 1,500 daily during Lent).

Two Antiochian representatives visiting Moscow joined the Tsar in his devotions and later wrote that they couldn’t stand on their feet for two days . . .

So “sensations” and 'altered states" seem to be part of the experience here too

Probably for this reason, I was told by my pastor that I needed the permission of my spiritual father (which I had, from a different priest in a different state I used to live in) before I could start saying the Jesus Prayer even without any goofy yoga postures.

 

[Little_One0307]

Yes, those beads were simply meant to be a “pause” as St Basil the Great had envisioned them. (What you have in your hands is sometimes called the “Chotki of St Basil the Great” with dividers every 25 knots).

We may say the prayer to the Theotokos on them.

The Old Believers divided the 100 steps of their leather Lestovka differently but kept the three dividers on which they say either the Byzantine Hail Mary or else the prayer of the Good Thief "Remember me O Lord when You come into Your kingdom (on the first one) Remember me O Master when You come into Your kingdom (on the second one) and Remember me O Holy One when You come into Your kingdom (on the third one).

But you can have your own prayer. In one source I have, the three divider beads are said to refer to the three-fold division of the psalmic Kathisma (which is highly unlikely, I should think).

Alex

Alex,

Thanks. Uggh what is the prayer to the Theotokos, is this the Roman Hail Mary? Do you mind writing out the prayer, and the Byzantine Hail Mary? I like the prayers of the Good Theif, I am going to incoporate those. I have always wanted to meet him, and I think he’s the first person I want to see after Jesus, Mary, Quis Ut Dues, and of course the Holy Trinity, should I by the grace of God make it to heaven.

God bless.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Probably for this reason, I was told by my pastor that I needed the permission of my spiritual father (which I had, from a different priest in a different state I used to live in) before I could start saying the Jesus Prayer even without any goofy yoga postures.

A very important point! We should try to get into a relationship with a priest/elder when we take up the Jesus Prayer, report to him regularly and seek his blessing in everything (including his blessing for wearing the prayer rope around our wrist). Whenever I talk to parish groups on the Jesus Prayer, I always emphasize the role that a priest-confessor should play in our spiritual lives.

Alex

 

[Alexander_Roman]

Alex,

Thanks. Uggh what is the prayer to the Theotokos, is this the Roman Hail Mary? Do you mind writing out the prayer, and the Byzantine Hail Mary? I like the prayers of the Good Theif, I am going to incoporate those. I have always wanted to meet him, and I think he’s the first person I want to see after Jesus, Mary, Quis Ut Dues, and of course the Holy Trinity, should I by the grace of God make it to heaven.

God bless.

You can certainly use the Western Hail Mary! The short prayer to the Mother of God is:

Most Holy Sovereign Theotokos, save me a sinner!

The Byzantine Hail Mary is" O Virgin Theotokos, Rejoice Mary Full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee! Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb, for Thou hast given birth to Christ the Saviour, the Redeemer of our souls." Other versions simply end with “the Saviour of our souls.”

Alex

 

[Little_One0307]

You can certainly use the Western Hail Mary! The short prayer to the Mother of God is:

Most Holy Sovereign Theotokos, save me a sinner!

The Byzantine Hail Mary is" O Virgin Theotokos, Rejoice Mary Full of Grace, the Lord is with Thee! Blessed art Thou among women and blessed is the Fruit of Thy womb, for Thou hast given birth to Christ the Saviour, the Redeemer of our souls." Other versions simply end with “the Saviour of our souls.”

Alex

Alex,

Thanks so much. I think I like the Byzantine Hail Mary. That is absolutely beautiful. I am going to pray it with my Rosary. I am thinking of combining the two. I dont think there is anything wrong with this. If there is let me know.

God bless.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

I would say it is all right - but be careful, I’m under suspicion of schism or something, so you have to take what I say with a grain of salt.

Cheers and all the best!

Alex