The Jews back in the land of Israel is ordained by God.

[Lev23]

You don’t need to bring them to Jerusalem to do that. Especiallay to cast out Christians to make room for atheist Jews.

…trying to jump start the apocalypse…

Hey I step back from this. Your problem is not with me, its with God’s prophetic Word concerning Israel.

Btw, are you a supporter of the “Christian Embassy.”

Allright, lets have it, spill the beans on the “Christian Embassy”.

 

[Lev23]

That makes two of us.
The Israel of today is not the Israel of 2000 plus years ago, it is a justification that people use for the modern Israel being. At least that is my humble opinion

The Israel of 2000 years ago was dispersed, and Ezekiels prophecy of them coming back into the land for the last time describes them as “dry bones that are cut off, all hope is gone”. These same bones were allowed to come out of their graves and into the land of Israel.

How “good” do you expect these “dry bones” to be?

We, as Christians should support Israel, not by being apologetics for the Government and their policies, but by openly procliaming to Israel and all the world that they are there in the land for repentence to God and to seek only him for all their needs. The nations also need to know that those who try to wipe Israel out of existence will be judged, and it won’t be pretty.
Here is a quick verse from **Joel 3-
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land. **

**Ezekiel 37:5-6
This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’ " **

It is clear God is ultimately at work here at his own time table as he is attaching tendons, making flesh come upon the Jews, etc. So those naysayers who say supporters of the Jews back in the land Israel are trying to “jumpstart the end-times” can pipe down now.

 

[planten]

So the Brits are now God?

**The Jews are a nation and by international law, every nation should have a homeland, a country. Nobody is God except the One God. Brits may have a tool in the plan of God.

There many things which are planned. Some things are the results of our good or bad deeds. It may be the bad deeds of the Arabs who contributed to creation of Israel.

Apparantly, the brothers of joseph son of Jacob had done something terrible against Joseph and jacob. But it was a some grand plan of God to save the children of Jacob from extermination due to the impending famine.
**

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It is clear you have a stoney heart for the Jews.

And you have a neck of iron and a forehead of brass.

You insist that somehow Jews how reject Jesus or even reject God are somehow the guardians of the promise of Abraham. Somehow the Judenstaat is the Modern Testament.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

If you want to cling to what has disappeared, don’t expect us to join you.

You are very arrogant towards the broken branches. The Passover foreshadowed for Israel the Lords Supper and all it implies.
The Passover Lamb has been slain. He has entered the Holy of Holies. It is FINISHED.

But you expect them to accept Christ and the Lord’s Supper, but then you make statements like this where you say “give them Germany.”

You are trying to pass a secular argument off as a religious one.
The NT is not a Zionist document.

How will a Jew connect the Passover with the Lords Supper when Christians like you are going around basically saying, “go somewhere else to live, but not in Palestine.”

And you are saying no matter how faithful the Jews are to the covenant, we must support as Christians Zionism’s expansionist aims, and approve its displacement of the people who were there.
The “Land without a People” was a lie.

You claim “Because they are not listening”. How do you know this? Have you extensively witnessed to Jews all around Israel? How do you know some have never heard?

I’ve been there. As a matter of fact, because of the Jewish family of my maternal gfandmother, they seem to think I am a candidate for Aliyah.
If you are a Jew, and convert to Christianity, that nullifies your “right to return.” That is the law of that state.
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDB1439F934A15751C1A96F948260
jewishworldreview.com/cols/twersky080598.html

 

[Isa_Almisry]

i agree lev23, his heart is made of stone when it comes to israel and the jews and something is wrong with that if he is a true christian. as christians, we are to love the jewish people.

Your read on the NT is quite skewed if you think it obligates the Christian to rubber any deed done by as son of Abraham, which, btw, I am one.
I know that God can raise sons of Abraham from the stones. Why don’t you?

 

[ralphinal]

**The Jews are a nation and by international law, every nation should have a homeland, a country. Nobody is God except the One God. Brits may have a tool in the plan of God.

There many things which are planned. Some things are the results of our good or bad deeds. It may be the bad deeds of the Arabs who contributed to creation of Israel.

Apparantly, the brothers of joseph son of Jacob had done something terrible against Joseph and jacob. But it was a some grand plan of God to save the children of Jacob from extermination due to the impending famine.
**

there is no doubt about this. This may be God’s plan. However, it may just be a step in God’s plan. We cannot say that this Israel is the way God wants it. They may be dispersed again and again.

I just don’t think we should put religious stock in the work of politicians.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

It’s different because every excuse is made in some churches to NOT do missionary work in Christ for the Jews in Israel. I’m all for Churches doing missionary work in all countries, witnessing to mass murderers in prison, etc., for the Church has done this faithfully. Now how about for the Jews in Israel?

Why don’t you ask the Knesset on that one.

I have seen with my own eyes how Israelis attitudes towards the Church is changing for the better.

Towards the Church, or towards the gullible ones who subscribe to some twisted latest Testament, that mistakes Zionism as the promise of Abraham, and some sort of benchmark for Armageddon.

That is those Churches that don’t openly damn them for every little thing they do. They seem to have more compassion for the messianic churches

Ha! Since, like I said, they consider me one of them, I’ve heard plenty of what the Jews think of Messianic “churches.”

and stick up for them when those churches are being persecuted by ultra-orthodox Jews.

Compassion? Or the secular dislike of the Orthodox outweigh their disdain for the messianic Jews?

The most joyful thing to me is, actually seeing Palestinean Christians make peace with their Jewish brethren in Christ that they are back in the land. I even heard one Palestinean Christian say once in reference towards the Jews, that he was a member of the PLO—Palestineans Loving Others. Beautiful!

Once again-

Romans 11:17-21
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

And once again, show me someone who interpreted this verse like you from the time of the Apostles up until before 1517.

Otherwise, I’m not impressed by your “proof-texting.”

We as Christians can rest and stand in the place of victory because of Jesus. It is so much better to be the bride of Christ now than to try to outlast the tribulation and to be like Josephs brothers when he revealed himself to them who he really is, just like Jesus will do for those Jews when he comes back. They will look upon Jesus who they pierced and mourn…

The broken branches still have a place in God’s prophecy concerning the 2nd coming of Jesus and his reign in Israel, as well as their own restoration.

Israel yes, Zionism, no.

I’m from the sect du jour that believes God is still faithful to and will restore unfaithful Israel in Christ.
Romans 11:28-32
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

And all they have to do is accept our Messiah.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Hey I step back from this. Your problem is not with me, its with God’s prophetic Word concerning Israel.

No, your Johnny come the latest interpretation of it. Can you cite someone who so believed before Herzl? A century before Herzl? Before 1517?

Allright, lets have it, spill the beans on the “Christian Embassy”.

What beans are their to spill, except the absurdity of an “embassy” when the native sons are at home.

Btw, have you answered about the Ethiopians, why or why not?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The Israel of 2000 years ago was dispersed, and Ezekiels prophecy of them coming back into the land for the last time describes them as “dry bones that are cut off, all hope is gone”. These same bones were allowed to come out of their graves and into the land of Israel.

How “good” do you expect these “dry bones” to be?

We, as Christians should support Israel, not by being apologetics for the Government and their policies, but by openly procliaming to Israel and all the world that they are there in the land for repentence to God and to seek only him for all their needs. The nations also need to know that those who try to wipe Israel out of existence will be judged, and it won’t be pretty.
Here is a quick verse from **Joel 3-
I will gather all nations
and bring them down to the Valley of Jehoshaphat.
There I will enter into judgment against them
concerning my inheritance, my people Israel,
for they scattered my people among the nations
and divided up my land. **

**Ezekiel 37:5-6
This is what the Sovereign LORD says to these bones: I will make breath enter you, and you will come to life. I will attach tendons to you and make flesh come upon you and cover you with skin; I will put breath in you, and you will come to life. Then you will know that I am the LORD.’ " **

It is clear God is ultimately at work here at his own time table as he is attaching tendons, making flesh come upon the Jews, etc. So those naysayers who say supporters of the Jews back in the land Israel are trying to “jumpstart the end-times” can pipe down now.

The prophecy was fullfilled on Calvary. It is FINISHED.

 

[7_Sorrows]

**The Jews are a nation and by international law, every nation should have a homeland, a country. Nobody is God except the One God. Brits may have a tool in the plan of God.

There many things which are planned. Some things are the results of our good or bad deeds. It may be the bad deeds of the Arabs who contributed to creation of Israel.

Apparantly, the brothers of joseph son of Jacob had done something terrible against Joseph and jacob. But it was a some grand plan of God to save the children of Jacob from extermination due to the impending famine.
**

well said planten. the Brits may have been a tool in the plan of God. i pray someday that the hearts of the jews and arabs will be softened towards one another and they will be able to live side by side peacefully and no more animosity.

 

[7_Sorrows]

And you have a neck of iron and a forehead of brass.

You insist that somehow Jews how reject Jesus or even reject God are somehow the guardians of the promise of Abraham. Somehow the Judenstaat is the Modern Testament.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

If you want to cling to what has disappeared, don’t expect us to join you.

You are very arrogant towards the broken branches. The Passover foreshadowed for Israel the Lords Supper and all it implies.
The Passover Lamb has been slain. He has entered the Holy of Holies. It is FINISHED.

You are trying to pass a secular argument off as a religious one.
The NT is not a Zionist document.

And you are saying no matter how faithful the Jews are to the covenant, we must support as Christians Zionism’s expansionist aims, and approve its displacement of the people who were there.
The “Land without a People” was a lie.

I’ve been there. As a matter of fact, because of the Jewish family of my maternal gfandmother, they seem to think I am a candidate for Aliyah.
If you are a Jew, and convert to Christianity, that nullifies your “right to return.” That is the law of that state.
query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DEFDB1439F934A15751C1A96F948260
jewishworldreview.com/cols/twersky080598.html

i also believe that if you become a messianic jew that nullifies your “right to return” which i don’t agree with. you cannot deny your ancestry to the jewish nation even if you become a messianic jew and that is something they will have to work on.
i am saying that there are some Jewish people that also have a cold heart. i don’t live over there, so i don’t specifically know all of the problems existing between israel and her surrounding neighbors, but it seems as though israel has not been welcome from the beginning.

 

[ralphinal]

well said planten. the Brits may have been a tool in the plan of God. i pray someday that the hearts of the jews and arabs will be softened towards one another and they will be able to live side by side peacefully and no more animosity.

I think we all do. As has been pointed out before, one of the major issues IS the Palestinian refugees. The Arab nations want them out and the Israelis do not want them in.

How sad. One people without a nation created another people without a nation.

 

[planten]

well said planten. the Brits may have been a tool in the plan of God. i pray someday that the hearts of the jews and arabs will be softened towards one another and they will be able to live side by side peacefully and no more animosity.

Agreed in your prayer. Ameen.

 

[Lev23]

And you have a neck of iron and a forehead of brass.

Nevertheless, I have a soft heart for the broken branches of Israel. May they find their Messiah, Jesus Christ(blessed be he).

You insist that somehow Jews how reject Jesus or even reject God are somehow the guardians of the promise of Abraham. Somehow the Judenstaat is the Modern Testament.

Hebrews 8:13 When He said, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. But whatever is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to disappear.

If you want to cling to what has disappeared, don’t expect us to join you.

The thing that has disappeared is the Law, which I do not cling to. So I don’t know what you mean by that. As far as your guardian comment, I never called the broken branches of Israel that. The remnant of Israel proves God is not done with Israel. Gods rejection of Israel is not complete, nor will it ever be complete. It doesn’t matter how bad the broken branches are now, they are rejected but the remnant sanctifies that Israel will always be a nation before God and in Christ, the prophecies pertaining to the full restoration of Israel, the people and the land will come to pass. As a matter of fact, Israel’s current “godlessness” means reconciliation for the world at this moment.

The Passover Lamb has been slain. He has entered the Holy of Holies. It is FINISHED.

Correct. That is why Israel will be fully restored, in Jesus Christ.

You are trying to pass a secular argument off as a religious one.
The NT is not a Zionist document.

And you are saying no matter how faithful the Jews are to the covenant, we must support as Christians Zionism’s expansionist aims, and approve its displacement of the people who were there.

Again, I never said we should support the policies of the secular government and how they handle the people that were already there when they came back in large numbers. We should support them with the Word of God, tell them why they are back in the land today. Not for themselves, but for His Holy Namesake.

The “Land without a People” was a lie.

Agreed But the claim that the Jews have no ancestery claim to the land is even a bigger lie.

I’ve been there. As a matter of fact, because of the Jewish family of my maternal gfandmother, they seem to think I am a candidate for Aliyah.
If you are a Jew, and convert to Christianity, that nullifies your “right to return.” That is the law of that state.

Again, you are a Jew who is a Christian. You rest and stand in the place of Victory of everything because you are in Christ. Everything will be fulfilled in Christ. If you are in Christ now, and suffer because you cannot live in Israel, you are surely blessed. The first Jewish Christians missionaries must of felt this way under Roman occupation, having to leave and let go the land of Isreal to bring the Gospel to the Jews scattered among the nations, and also the Gentiles.

 

[Lev23]

Your read on the NT is quite skewed if you think it obligates the Christian to rubber any deed done by as son of Abraham, which, btw, I am one.
I know that God can raise sons of Abraham from the stones. Why don’t you?

And all they have to do is accept our Messiah.

Presto! You have the answer to their problems! Now go give it to them. Expect persecution.

The fact is they are still sons of Abraham, and according to prophecy, the Israel that is alive when Christ comes back will be saved, in Christ. Though I would rather have them join the bride of Christ now .

 

[Lev23]

The prophecy was fullfilled on Calvary. It is FINISHED.

The prophecy will be completed when Jesus Christ comes back to Israel.

What we know now of the particular prophecies concerning Jesus’ first coming were fulfilled literally. I think it is safe to say the prophecies we now know as his second coming will be fulfilled, literally.

 

[Lev23]

*Originally Posted by Lev23
Hey I step back from this. Your problem is not with me, its with God’s prophetic Word concerning Israel. *

No, your Johnny come the latest interpretation of it. Can you cite someone who so believed before Herzl? A century before Herzl? Before 1517?

I don’t know about Herzl, but how anyone can miss this before Herzl is beyond me.

**Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.**

What beans are their to spill, except the absurdity of an “embassy” when the native sons are at home.

That embassy is there to show Israel that God is not finished with them or the land, and that in Christ, they will be restored. The Christian Embassy is also there to warn the nations of their “absurdity” because they choose not to have their embassy there in protest of Israeli rule over the city.

Btw, have you answered about the Ethiopians, why or why not?

Are they Christians?

 

[Lev23]

***quote:Lev23
Once again-
Romans 11:17-21
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. ***

And once again, show me someone who interpreted this verse like you from the time of the Apostles up until before 1517.

Otherwise, I’m not impressed by your “proof-texting.”
.

Your right, that would be very hard for me to do. But I can show you many examples of writings by those in the Church that have written about the broken branches in a way that St.Paul warns NOT to do.

Do you think that might be the reason I could not find an interpretation by someone like me, who plainly reads what St.Paul writes in Romans 11 about “boasting in arrogance towards the broken branches”?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Your right, that would be very hard for me to do. But I can show you many examples of writings by those in the Church that have written about the broken branches in a way that St.Paul warns NOT to do.

Do you think that might be the reason I could not find an interpretation by someone like me, who plainly reads what St.Paul writes in Romans 11 about “boasting in arrogance towards the broken branches”?

In part.

Btw:
huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html
(Not a usual source of information, I admit).

John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God’s behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a “hunter,” sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God’s will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel.

Hagee is considered, in many political circles, to be one of the most passionate and strident supporters of Israel. He has spoken at AIPAC conferences and leads the evangelical group Christians United for Israel. But his views of the country, while possibly shared by others in the evangelical community, can be, at times, startling. Holding to the belief that Armageddon will come to earth following the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Israel, Hagee has advocated an aggressive war against Iran and has opposed any Israeli military withdrawal from the West Bank.

 

[Lev23]

Btw:
huffingtonpost.com/2008/05/21/mccain-backer-hagee-said_n_102892.html
(Not a usual source of information, I admit).

John Hagee, the controversial evangelical leader and endorser of Sen. John McCain, argued in a late 1990s sermon that the Nazis had operated on God’s behalf to chase the Jews from Europe and shepherd them to Palestine. According to the Reverend, Adolph Hitler was a “hunter,” sent by God, who was tasked with expediting God’s will of having the Jews re-establish a state of Israel.

Hagee is considered, in many political circles, to be one of the most passionate and strident supporters of Israel. He has spoken at AIPAC conferences and leads the evangelical group Christians United for Israel. But his views of the country, while possibly shared by others in the evangelical community, can be, at times, startling. Holding to the belief that Armageddon will come to earth following the reestablishment of the Kingdom of Israel, Hagee has advocated an aggressive war against Iran and has opposed any Israeli military withdrawal from the West Bank.

I totally agree with you on Hagee and those who think support for Israel means providing them with bullets and chanting “U-rah-rah Go Israel!” when it comes to Israel’s use of its’ military, for whatever reason.

I believe when it comes to supporting Israel with material things, it should be to the churches in Israel. St.Paul makes that clear.
Romans 15:25-33
Now, however, I am on my way to Jerusalem in the service of the saints there. For Macedonia and Achaia were pleased to make a contribution for the poor among the saints in Jerusalem. They were pleased to do it, and indeed they owe it to them. For if the Gentiles have shared in the Jews’ spiritual blessings, they owe it to the Jews to share with them their material blessings. So after I have completed this task and have made sure that they have received this fruit, I will go to Spain and visit you on the way. I know that when I come to you, I will come in the full measure of the blessing of Christ.
I urge you, brothers, by our Lord Jesus Christ and by the love of the Spirit, to join me in my struggle by praying to God for me. Pray that I may be rescued from the unbelievers in Judea and that my service in Jerusalem may be acceptable to the saints there, so that by God’s will I may come to you with joy and together with you be refreshed. The God of peace be with you all. Amen.

The only support I give to the broken branches of Israel is the Gospel of Christ and my voice to Israel and the nations they are there because of God for the purpose to repent and rely soley on God, through Jesus Christ.