The Jews back in the land of Israel is ordained by God.

[7_Sorrows]

thanks susan, yes, i knew it was something they had come up with. i believe this is when they drew up the boundaries for the countries surrounding israel also. maybe they should all go back to the drawing board. it seems like no one has been to happy with the result, except israel, since that time.

 

[ralphinal]

After WWII, the Jews needed to be a place to be safe. Israel is a good choice because of the historic and religious context. I am stll not convienced that it is God and not man.

I need some way to say, “yes, it was time.”

And again, no one has shown how modern Israel is ancient Israel.

 

[planten]

**Yes, The Jews back in the land of Israel is ordained by God. **
If it was not ordained by God then they won’t be there.

 

[susankndrck35]

thanks susan, yes, i knew it was something they had come up with. i believe this is when they drew up the boundaries for the countries surrounding israel also. maybe they should all go back to the drawing board. it seems like no one has been to happy with the result, except israel, since that time.

Yeah, the good old Brits sure know how to screw up things and then walk away:shrug:

 

[susankndrck35]

**Yes, The Jews back in the land of Israel is ordained by God. **
If it was not ordained by God then they won’t be there.

So the Brits are now God?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Definately read them.

**Amos 9:14-15
I will bring back my exiled people Israel;
they will rebuild the ruined cities and live in them.
They will plant vineyards and drink their wine;
they will make gardens and eat their fruit.

I will plant Israel in their own land,
never again to be uprooted
from the land I have given them,"
says the LORD your God.

Jeremiah 31:35-37
This is what the LORD says,
he who appoints the sun
to shine by day,
who decrees the moon and stars
to shine by night,
who stirs up the sea
so that its waves roar—
the LORD Almighty is his name:

"Only if these decrees vanish from my sight," 
   declares the LORD, 
   "will the descendants of Israel ever cease 
   to be a nation before me." 

This is what the LORD says: 
   "Only if the heavens above can be measured 
   and the foundations of the earth below be searched out 
   will I reject all the descendants of Israel 
   because of all they have done," 
   declares the LORD. **

They came back.

Our Messiah came.

We don’t worship on the mountain anymore, but in Spirit and in Truth.

Btw:

Seems out of sync with this report (my emphasis added)
trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

*A survey in 2004 showed that 81 percent of Israel’s population defined themselves as Jewish; 12 percent as Muslim; 3.5 percent as Christian (both Arab and non-Arab); 1.5 percent as Druze; **1.5 percent as atheist; ***and another 0.5 percent as followers of other religions. In terms of religiosity, among Israeli Jews aged 20 and over, 44 percent defined themselves as secular; 27 percent defined themselves as traditional; 12 percent as traditionally observant; 9 percent as Orthodox; and 8 percent as ultra-Orthodox.

The historical gap between the European Enlightenment heritage and the legacy of the Islamic world was clearly demonstrated in this survey. There was a particularly high prevalence of the secular label, 63 percent, among native Israelis of European descent, compared to 33 percent among native Israelis of Asian origin, and 25 percent of native Israelis of North African origin. Among Moslem Palestinians living in Israel, 11 percent defined themselves as very religious; 49 percent as religious; 21 percent as not so religious; and only 18 percent as not religious at all.

From that survey,

trincoll.edu/depts/csrpl/RINVol9No2/insert/secular%20jewish%20israeli%20identity.htm

I think Fr. Mitch Pacwa was maybe referring to “secular”, but the fact that 96.5 percent reject Jesus as the Messiah is proof that modern Isreal is NOT a fulfillment of prophecy because if it were such, there would be 100 percent Christians there.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

Prophecy, read it.

**Acts 1:6-7
So when they met together, they asked him, “Lord, are you at this time going to restore the kingdom to Israel?”

He said to them: "It is not for you to know the times or dates the Father has set by his own authority.**

Notice Jesus never rebuked them about asking this question about the restoration of Israel here on Earth.

Not really. It’s clear, among other prophecies, that Israel will be back in the land when Jesus comes back to Israel. This particular prophecy will reach it ultimate fulfillment when Jesus comes back at the second coming. And it will be like when Joseph revealed to his brothers(who sold Joseph into slavery) who he really was, so Jesus will reveal to his brothers who he really is now, their Messiah-

Zechariah 12:10-13
"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me, the one they have pierced, and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child, and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a firstborn son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great, like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. The land will mourn, each clan by itself, with their wives by themselves: the clan of the house of David and their wives, the clan of the house of Nathan and their wives, the clan of the house of Levi and their wives, the clan of Shimei and their wives, and all the rest of the clans and their wives.

Galatians4: 19 My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you— 20 but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 **Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. **27 For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

i am glad you agree ralph that the old covenant still stands. i think the declaration was called the balfour declaration or something like that. at the time, the world had been through WWII and had seen the atrocities done to the Jewish people and other people by nazi germany.

Then give them Germany.
Btw, the Balfour Declaration was during WWI

 

[Lev23]

They came back.

Our Messiah came.

We don’t worship on the mountain anymore, but in Spirit and in Truth.

Btw:

All Israel never came back from the dispersion. St.James, that most definately knew our Messiah came, addresses his epistle like this-
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

BTW, you can fold up your stats and put them in your pocket, because the field is ready to harvest in Israel, the workers are few. The Lord is not asking us to wave an Israeli flag or be apologetics for the policies of the Israeli government. He is asking us to comfort his people and somehow make them jealous for their God, and ultimately, to Jesus Christ, their Messiah.

I find the last quote you listed as ridiculous. How easy it is to put off the Jews coming back into the land and to witness to them by saying “this is not of God, otherwise the land would be all Christians.”

 

[Lev23]

Galatians4: 19 My children, with whom I am again in labor until Christ is formed in you— 20 but I could wish to be present with you now and to change my tone, for I am perplexed about you.

21 Tell me, you who want to be under law, do you not listen to the law? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the bondwoman and one by the free woman. 23 But the son by the bondwoman was born according to the flesh, and the son by the free woman through the promise. 24 This is allegorically speaking, for these women are two covenants: one proceeding from Mount Sinai bearing children who are to be slaves; she is Hagar. 25 **Now this Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem above is free; she is our mother. **27 For it is written,
“REJOICE, BARREN WOMAN WHO DOES NOT BEAR;
BREAK FORTH AND SHOUT, YOU WHO ARE NOT IN LABOR;
FOR MORE NUMEROUS ARE THE CHILDREN OF THE DESOLATE
THAN OF THE ONE WHO HAS A HUSBAND.”
28 And you brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now also. 30 But what does the Scripture say?
“CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON,
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN.”
31 So then, brethren, we are not children of a bondwoman, but of the free woman.

The Jerusalem that is in slavery, that is without Jesus Christ, WILL be restored when Jesus comes back. Prophecy, prophecy, prophecy. This Jerusalem, the city that ironically up to now has known little peace, will be restored when Jesus Christ comes back to her. That is why as Christians, our testimony is that today’s Jerusalem is in slavery, because the annointed King of Israel, the Messiah, Jesus Christ has not come back yet to judge the nations and to rule and reign from there a 1000 years before he hands the Kingdom over to his Father.

We Christians are working for the peace of Jerusalem by bringing Christ into Jewish hearts. This is how we “cast out the bondwoman and her son”.

 

[Isa_Almisry]

All Israel never came back from the dispersion. St.James, that most definately knew our Messiah came, addresses his epistle like this-
James 1:1
James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ,
To the twelve tribes scattered among the nations:
Greetings.

BTW, you can fold up your stats and put them in your pocket, because the field is ready to harvest in Israel, the workers are few.

And that’d different from the rest of the world how?

The Lord is not asking us to wave an Israeli flag or be apologetics for the policies of the Israeli government. He is asking us to comfort his people

The Church? I’ve seen what the Zionist do to the Church.

and somehow make them jealous for their God, and ultimately, to Jesus Christ, their Messiah.

I find the last quote you listed as ridiculous. How easy it is to put off the Jews coming back into the land and to witness to them by saying “this is not of God, otherwise the land would be all Christians.”

Makes more sense than claiming atheists are inheritors of God’s promises. Galatians says what?
CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN

Are you as zealous to get the Ethiopian Orthodox, all 40 million of them, and the Knanaya Orthodox and the Syro-Malabra Knanya under the Vatican from India, all quarter of a milllion of them to Palestine? They are Sons of Israel, and once more, have accepted out Messiah.

If not, why not?

I don’t know from what sect du jour that is trying to jump start the apocalypse that you are getting these ideas from. Can you show ANY Christian who so believed from the time of the Apostles until before 1517?

 

[Isa_Almisry]

The Jerusalem that is in slavery, that is without Jesus Christ, WILL be restored when Jesus comes back. Prophecy, prophecy, prophecy. ‘/QUOTE]
Heresy, heresy, heresy.
He hasn’t come back, so why are you so itchin’ to “restore” her?

This Jerusalem, the city that ironically up to now has known little peace, will be restored when Jesus Christ comes back to her. That is why as Christians, our testimony is that today’s Jerusalem is in slavery, because the annointed King of Israel, the Messiah, Jesus Christ has not come back yet to judge the nations and to rule and reign from there a 1000 years before he hands the Kingdom over to his Father.

We Christians are working for the peace of Jerusalem by bringing Christ into Jewish hearts. This is how we “cast out the bondwoman and her son”.

You don’t need to bring them to Jerusalem to do that. Especiallay to cast out Christians to make room for atheist Jews.

Btw, are you a supporter of the “Christian Embassy.”

 

[Lev23]

Then give them Germany.

Because the are not listening to Him.

It is clear you have a stoney heart for the Jews. You are very arrogant towards the broken branches. The Passover foreshadowed for Israel the Lords Supper and all it implies. But you expect them to accept Christ and the Lord’s Supper, but then you make statements like this where you say “give them Germany.” How will a Jew connect the Passover with the Lords Supper when Christians like you are going around basically saying, “go somewhere else to live, but not in Palestine.”

You claim “Because they are not listening”. How do you know this? Have you extensively witnessed to Jews all around Israel? How do you know some have never heard?

 

[7_Sorrows]

i agree lev23, his heart is made of stone when it comes to israel and the jews and something is wrong with that if he is a true christian. as christians, we are to love the jewish people.

 

[susankndrck35]

as christians, we are to love the jewish people.

we can love someone but that does not mean you have to agree with or approve of what they are doing.

 

[7_Sorrows]

i love them and approve of the state of Israel being created for them.

 

[susankndrck35]

i love them and approve of the state of Israel being created for them.

well rah, rah for you
I love them and don’t approve of the State of Israel (modern) being made for them.
I also do not support the taxpayers of this country giving them billions of dollars in loans (haha!! we have yet to be repaid on any loan made to Israel) and the supply of arms.

 

[Lev23]

And that’d different from the rest of the world how?

It’s different because every excuse is made in some churches to NOT do missionary work in Christ for the Jews in Israel. I’m all for Churches doing missionary work in all countries, witnessing to mass murderers in prison, etc., for the Church has done this faithfully. Now how about for the Jews in Israel?

The Church? I’ve seen what the Zionist do to the Church.

I have seen with my own eyes how Israelis attitudes towards the Church is changing for the better. That is those Churches that don’t openly damn them for every little thing they do. They seem to have more compassion for the messianic churches and stick up for them when those churches are being persecuted by ultra-orthodox Jews. The most joyful thing to me is, actually seeing Palestinean Christians make peace with their Jewish brethren in Christ that they are back in the land. I even heard one Palestinean Christian say once in reference towards the Jews, that he was a member of the PLO—Palestineans Loving Others. Beautiful!

Makes more sense than claiming atheists are inheritors of God’s promises. Galatians says what?
CAST OUT THE BONDWOMAN AND HER SON
FOR THE SON OF THE BONDWOMAN SHALL NOT BE AN HEIR WITH THE SON OF THE FREE WOMAN

Once again-

Romans 11:17-21
If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, do not boast over those branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.

Are you as zealous to get the Ethiopian Orthodox, all 40 million of them, and the Knanaya Orthodox and the Syro-Malabra Knanya under the Vatican from India, all quarter of a milllion of them to Palestine? They are Sons of Israel, and once more, have accepted out Messiah.

If not, why not?

We as Christians can rest and stand in the place of victory because of Jesus. It is so much better to be the bride of Christ now than to try to outlast the tribulation and to be like Josephs brothers when he revealed himself to them who he really is, just like Jesus will do for those Jews when he comes back. They will look upon Jesus who they pierced and mourn…

The broken branches still have a place in God’s prophecy concerning the 2nd coming of Jesus and his reign in Israel, as well as their own restoration.

I don’t know from what sect du jour that is trying to jump start the apocalypse that you are getting these ideas from. Can you show ANY Christian who so believed from the time of the Apostles until before 1517?

I’m from the sect du jour that believes God is still faithful to and will restore unfaithful Israel in Christ.
Romans 11:28-32
As far as the gospel is concerned, they are enemies on your account; but as far as election is concerned, they are loved on account of the patriarchs, for God’s gifts and his call are irrevocable. Just as you who were at one time disobedient to God have now received mercy as a result of their disobedience, so they too have now become disobedient in order that they too may now receive mercy as a result of God’s mercy to you. For God has bound all men over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[ralphinal]

well rah, rah for you
I love them and don’t approve of the State of Israel (modern) being made for them.
I also do not support the taxpayers of this country giving them billions of dollars in loans (haha!! we have yet to be repaid on any loan made to Israel) and the supply of arms.

I guess I am crazy. I love them. I have no issue with Israel being created for them. I do not like many of the things that they have done. i support them as an ally. I am not bothered by our aid to them, or at least any more so than all the other nations we hold up.

I just am not convienced that this Nation is the same as it was 2000+ years ago.

I need something to connect the two, and I have yet to see it.

 

[susankndrck35]

I just am not convienced that this Nation is the same as it was 2000+ years ago.

I need something to connect the two, and I have yet to see it.

That makes two of us.
The Israel of today is not the Israel of 2000 plus years ago, it is a justification that people use for the modern Israel being. At least that is my humble opinion