R
ricmat
Guest
Of course.
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Lev23
Guest
You forgot to mention that, starting in Jerusalem, the Jews also brung to the nations the gospel of Jesus, the messiah of Israel, so we gentiles can partake in the promises of Israel. I dont know how you can say that their role in our redemtion and salvation is over since the gospel of Jesus is still being preached today. Jesus said, “…for salvation is from the Jews.” John4:22
The way you word your “All that remains…” statement sounds like God does not have a remnant of Israel in the Church, but from scripture, we know he does.
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bigsarge05
Guest
Since when isn’t love and forgiveness persistent?
How can one pray for forgiveness, blessing, strength, or love from our God who shows infinite patience, when one can’t even reconcile or even forgive the enmity between two people?
Yes, I read the thread. While you might disagree, those two sections, apply to love and persistence. I wasn’t trying to debate or refute what you were writing just trying to add to the dynamic.
Pax,
Jesse
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mcs7474
Guest
What is this replacement theology? I did a search and find the writings a bit hard to understand, can anyone break it down for me?
I have always felt the Church was the new Isreal (period). and that the nation of isreal is just another secular nation. and the Jews need to convert to the catholic church. Why must one group convert and another not (the jews)?
Why am I always recieving conflicting messages on this topic?Help
I have always felt the Church was the new Isreal (period). and that the nation of isreal is just another secular nation. and the Jews need to convert to the catholic church. Why must one group convert and another not (the jews)?
Why am I always recieving conflicting messages on this topic?Help
B
bigsarge05
Guest
This is a hard teaching to understand. There is a Protestant flavor that is intertwined with millenium dispensationalism (i.e. rapture, etc) … I’m not quite 100% on the issue either,
First, I believe wholeheartedly that the Jewish people are still God’s people. I think for Him to simply forsake the Jews and their plight throughout history is, well nonsensical. After all they’ve been through so much together.
But I don’t think God shows favorites. We’re His people through a type of faith adoption, because after all He is the one true God. It is through our faith that we can call ourselves children of Abraham. Our faith in God and Christ has made us co-heirs to the kingdom.
Roman’s chapters 9-11 illustrate it pretty well.
God has interwoven His Church into the salvation plan. The Gospel of our Lord Jesus the Christ must be spread to all of the nations. This includes the Jewish people. There will be mass conversions to Christ before his second coming.
Like I said, we’ve been given the opportunity for salvation as co-heirs; we will not replace the original heirs to God’s kingdom, the Jews. The bottom line is this: We all need Christ for our salvation.
I know this is the super basic point of view … can someone elaborate further?
Hope this helps even a little.
Jesse
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ricmat
Guest
Of course we must be persistent in love and forgiveness. But the post my original post referred to had nothing to do with love, or forgiveness, or enmity.
One particular poster seemed intent on invincible ignorance, and another poster seemed intent on overcoming it (with a LOT of persistence, which isn’t necessarily bad). There was no enmity involved in this either, as near as I could tell. Poster A and poster B were not unloving, or unforgiving, or having enmity between them. They disagreed about some issues. That’s it.
There DOES come a time to shake the dust from your sandals and move on. Perhaps I suggested this prematurely. Perhaps B was on the verge of a breakthrough. Perhaps B is driven by the Holy Spirit to evangelize A in particular.
Again, my own background makes me seek “low hanging fruit”, but perhaps this is a case where the HS was directing B to do otherwise.
So, ignor my previous comment. Hang in there, and don’t give up
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NotWorthy
Guest
ncmat, as a representative of the “b” party (and yes, you are right, there was no ill-intent or lacking of charity, we just disagreed), I forgot to mention. Sometimes my posts, when given to someone who is as hard as a petrified rock, is not to that person. Most often, that person will not change, but there are others that may have the same question (or bias) but are more willing to learn from others. They may read this thread in the hopes of having their question answered.
So maybe “a” didn’t accept my thoughts, but there are other “a”'s out there that may accept it, and there are other “b”'s out there that realize that they may give up far too easily.
Just something to ponder…
So maybe “a” didn’t accept my thoughts, but there are other “a”'s out there that may accept it, and there are other “b”'s out there that realize that they may give up far too easily.
Just something to ponder…
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ricmat
Guest
Excellent point, and I agree with you wholeheartedly.
Your posts are excellent in general, and I read them even when I’m not directly involved
B
bigsarge05
Guest
Gotcha! Have a great weekend!Of course we must be persistent in love and forgiveness. But the post my original post referred to had nothing to do with love, or forgiveness, or enmity.
One particular poster seemed intent on invincible ignorance, and another poster seemed intent on overcoming it (with a LOT of persistence, which isn’t necessarily bad). There was no enmity involved in this either, as near as I could tell. Poster A and poster B were not unloving, or unforgiving, or having enmity between them. They disagreed about some issues. That’s it.
There DOES come a time to shake the dust from your sandals and move on. Perhaps I suggested this prematurely. Perhaps B was on the verge of a breakthrough. Perhaps B is driven by the Holy Spirit to evangelize A in particular.
Again, my own background makes me seek “low hanging fruit”, but perhaps this is a case where the HS was directing B to do otherwise.
So, ignor my previous comment. Hang in there, and don’t give up
V/r
Jesse
M
mcs7474
Guest
Ok
A few question, do we or do we not want to the world to be catholic? If a jew finds that he should join the CC, but does not and remains a jew (religion wise), is he going to have to answer to God about that choice? Everyone should be catholic right?
B
bigsarge05
Guest
Hey again,
The Catechism states:
674 The glorious Messiah’s coming is suspended at every moment of history until his recognition by “all Israel”, for “a hardening has come upon part of Israel” in their “unbelief” toward Jesus.568 St. Peter says to the Jews of Jerusalem after Pentecost: "Repent therefore, and turn again, that your sins may be blotted out, that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, and that he may send the Christ appointed for you, Jesus, whom heaven must receive until the time for establishing all that God spoke by the mouth of his holy prophets from of old."569 St. Paul echoes him: "For if their rejection means the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance mean but life from the dead?"570 The “full inclusion” of the Jews in the Messiah’s salvation, in the wake of “the full number of the Gentiles”,571 will enable the People of God to achieve “the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ”, in which “God may be all in all”.572
I believe the world will be united as Catholics. Remember it is derived from the Greek word katholikos, which means universal. We’ll have one Church with Christ as the head. There will be undoubtedly masses upon masses of converts to Christ.
I have a friend who went through this same ordeal. He was a very zealous Jew who would almost become violent towards Christians who would try to proselytize him. It took him a few years to come to the realization that he truly wanted to become Catholic.
The bottom line will be the acceptance of Christ. If one doesn’t accept Christ as the Messiah, then he/she will ultimately have to answer to God for that. But of course salvation is up to God. He’s the head of the management section; I’d be the dude parking the cars or something … if I’m lucky
Also don’t forget, the earliest ‘Christians’ were Jews. Peter and Paul were very zealous in their faith. They loved God, kept His commandments but believed Christ was the Messiah. Christ commissioned Peter as the head of His (our) Church, something no other Church can claim.
God is patiently collecting His people!
Sorry it’s so short, I’ve got to get to work. Can anyone else add to or correct my comments?
Regards,
Jesse
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