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zerinus
Guest
That means that they don’t.
Question: Do Catholics believe in murdering their innocent mothers?
Answer: Yes.
zerinus
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Montalban
Guest
What’s amazing is that the same site says the following…
"As the matter stands today, no definite statement has been made by the Lord one way or another regarding the crime of abortion. So far as is known, he has not listed it alongside the crime of the unpardonable sin and shedding of innocent human blood. That he has not done so would suggest that it is not in that class of crime and therefore that it will be amenable to the laws of repentance and forgiveness.”
I wonder who is the “Lord” of Mormons? Certainly not God.
"In the Orthodox Church calendar there are three occasions in which the Church commemorate three important persons in the womb. This happens in the celebration of The Annunciation, in the feast of the conception of the Theotokos (Mary), by Saint Anne, and the celebration of the conception of Saint John the Baptist by Saint Elizabeth
Schaeffer, F., “Dancing Alone: The Quest for Orthodox Faith in the Age of False Religion”, pp243-4
The significance of Mary’s visitation to her cousin, when the unborn St. John the Baptist leapt for joy means that we understand that personality, and life exist before birth.
Isaiah 49.15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child, and not have compassion on the son of her womb?”
“In the light of Holy Tradition the wilful abortion of a bay by its mother is as unnatural a practice as can be imagined.” (Ibid, p244)
“There are two ways of instruction, as there are two powers, that of light and that of darkness. And there is a great difference between the two ways. One is controlled by God’s light-bearing angels, the other by the angels of Satan. And as the latter is the ruler of the present era of lawlessness, so the former is lauded from eternity to eternity. Among the precepts of the way of light is this; do not murder a child by abortion, or commit infanticide.” From the Epistle of Barbanas (c.138) as quoted in Ibid, p235
“How, then is a living being conceived? Is the substance of both body and soul formed together at the same time, or does one of them precede the other? We do indeed maintain that both are conceived, formed and perfected at the same time, as they are born together; nor is there any moment intervening in their conception, which would give prior place to either. Consider the first events in the light of the last. If death is defined as nothing other than the separation of the body and soul, then life, the opposite of death, should be defined as nothing else but the union of body and soul… We acknowledge, therefore, that life begins with conception, because we content that the soul begins with conception.” Quoted from Tertullian (208), in Ibid, p237.
"As the matter stands today, no definite statement has been made by the Lord one way or another regarding the crime of abortion. So far as is known, he has not listed it alongside the crime of the unpardonable sin and shedding of innocent human blood. That he has not done so would suggest that it is not in that class of crime and therefore that it will be amenable to the laws of repentance and forgiveness.”
I wonder who is the “Lord” of Mormons? Certainly not God.
"In the Orthodox Church calendar there are three occasions in which the Church commemorate three important persons in the womb. This happens in the celebration of The Annunciation, in the feast of the conception of the Theotokos (Mary), by Saint Anne, and the celebration of the conception of Saint John the Baptist by Saint Elizabeth
Schaeffer, F., “Dancing Alone: The Quest for Orthodox Faith in the Age of False Religion”, pp243-4
The significance of Mary’s visitation to her cousin, when the unborn St. John the Baptist leapt for joy means that we understand that personality, and life exist before birth.
Isaiah 49.15 “Can a woman forget her nursing child, and not have compassion on the son of her womb?”
“In the light of Holy Tradition the wilful abortion of a bay by its mother is as unnatural a practice as can be imagined.” (Ibid, p244)
“There are two ways of instruction, as there are two powers, that of light and that of darkness. And there is a great difference between the two ways. One is controlled by God’s light-bearing angels, the other by the angels of Satan. And as the latter is the ruler of the present era of lawlessness, so the former is lauded from eternity to eternity. Among the precepts of the way of light is this; do not murder a child by abortion, or commit infanticide.” From the Epistle of Barbanas (c.138) as quoted in Ibid, p235
“How, then is a living being conceived? Is the substance of both body and soul formed together at the same time, or does one of them precede the other? We do indeed maintain that both are conceived, formed and perfected at the same time, as they are born together; nor is there any moment intervening in their conception, which would give prior place to either. Consider the first events in the light of the last. If death is defined as nothing other than the separation of the body and soul, then life, the opposite of death, should be defined as nothing else but the union of body and soul… We acknowledge, therefore, that life begins with conception, because we content that the soul begins with conception.” Quoted from Tertullian (208), in Ibid, p237.
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Montalban
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EXCEPT in certain circumstances, like when the woman’s been raped.
Wow, and people accuse me of flaming!
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Montalban
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Montalban
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See how this fits:
Do Mormons believe in murdering their innocent un-borns?
Answer: Yes.
But the difference is
Your church: the actual act of abortion is killing a child
Catholic church: against abortion. Someone who ignores this, tries a ‘back-yard’ abortion and dies is not being ‘killed’ by the church.
To labour the point.
If I shoot you and kill you, I’ve actioned your death.
If I tell you “Don’t go swimming in the surf, it’s dangerous” and you do and die, that’s not me causing your death.
I’m sorry but you accusations against the RCC are just not logical.
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dolphinlove
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Did you read it? Did you read the part it says this:
The Church opposes abortion and counsels its members not to submit to or perform an abortion except in the rare cases
That means your church DOES approve of abortion doesnt it!
Except in rare cases means it still DOES allow abortions, doesnt it!
If not, i would like for you to show me in that paragraph where it says mormons do NOT allow abortions at all!
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zerinus
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dolphinlove
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When a mother is carrying a child, there is nothing a mother would not do for that child, including giving up her life.
If a parent had to choose between their life or the life of their child, i think a parent would choose to give up their life for their child.
This is NOT murdering, and i do not appreciate you disrespecting my faith as you do, and i really do not appreciate you calling people of my faith murderers.
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Montalban
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**Except **in rare cases!
That’s what it says!
You keep repeating a generalisation; LDS doesn’t approve per se in abortion which in no way negates that EXCEPT in certain circumstances, you do!
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Montalban
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Guess who’s been reading…? NOT
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dolphinlove
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Yes it does approve of abortions in rare cases, which part of this do you not understand?
So yes, your church does approve of the murdering of innocent unborn children.
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zerinus
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When the church makes it mandatory on women not to have an abortion even to save their own lives (even when the fetus is going to die anyway), I call that murdering the mother for an abortion.
zerinus
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zerinus
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You can protest all you want. To me that means that the LDS Church does not approve of abortion.
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dolphinlove
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Wrong again!
This has been explained to you several times in this forum now, so i dont think me explaining it you AGAIN is going to make one ounce of difference.
You have your ideas and how you perceive things, and nothing anyone says will change your mind about how it really is.
Its not murder, but you cant understand the logic behind it.
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Montalban
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You church says abortion’s okay, if the woman was raped.
**NOTHING **about her being in danger
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Montalban
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Not per se. I guess when you’re out to diss another faith like you have little *exceptions *just get in the way
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Montalban
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More EXCEPTIONS
Church leaders have said that some exceptional circumstances may justify an abortion, such as when pregnancy is the result of incest or rape, when the life or health of the mother is judged by competent medical authority to be in serious jeopardy, or when the fetus is known by competent medical authority to have severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive beyond birth
So, when you think the child’s going to die, you can hasten that!
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Montalban
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Oddly enough (or perhaps not, given the LDS church) they argue against themselves here
**13. Eliminating an imperfect fetus is extremely cruel discrimination. **
Some feel that abortion is justified when there is a chance of a defective child’s being born. If we will not tolerate imperfections in human beings, it might make more sense to practice infanticide or genocide. Abortion is even worse because it doesn’t discriminate; it destroys the healthy as well as the deformed baby. “Every argument that can be made for aborting a fetus can also be made for killing the same fetus once it is born,” argues Professor R. Paul Ramsey of Princeton University.
Many devoted parents have proved that the birth of a defective child need not be tragic; often such a child becomes a focal point of family love. Eighty-five percent of the retarded can get jobs and adjust to society.
Speaking of her own child, Nobel Prizewinning author Pearl S. Buck stated: “A retarded child, a handicapped person, brings its own gift to life, even to the life of normal human beings.” 9
…
**5. No one can tell at what point a fetus is viable. **
Since, at the present stage of medical achievement, a fetus cannot be kept alive outside the mother’s womb before about twenty-four weeks after conception, the new abortion laws allow life to be taken prior to this time.
Some argue that “no one knows when life begins,” so they reason, “Why not consider it at birth?” However, the argument might just as well be reversed to state that if no one really knows when life starts, why not consider it as life at the point when the life-developing processes begin.
The genetic potential that directs the development of all human life is fully established at the moment of conception when the mother’s egg is fertilized by the father’s sperm. The factors that influence temperament, physique, eye, hair, skin color, and even intellectual capacity are all present.
At four weeks the fetus has a functioning heart, before the mother is aware that she is pregnant; by eight weeks there is a central nervous system and ingestive and digestive systems; brain cells, ears, eyes, nose, toes, and fingers are also forming. The baby can even move his head and bend his body, and he is sensitive to touch.
The simple fact is that at no point during a pregnancy is any human capable of knowing when the spirit of life takes up a new abode.
**13. Eliminating an imperfect fetus is extremely cruel discrimination. **
Some feel that abortion is justified when there is a chance of a defective child’s being born. If we will not tolerate imperfections in human beings, it might make more sense to practice infanticide or genocide. Abortion is even worse because it doesn’t discriminate; it destroys the healthy as well as the deformed baby. “Every argument that can be made for aborting a fetus can also be made for killing the same fetus once it is born,” argues Professor R. Paul Ramsey of Princeton University.
Many devoted parents have proved that the birth of a defective child need not be tragic; often such a child becomes a focal point of family love. Eighty-five percent of the retarded can get jobs and adjust to society.
Speaking of her own child, Nobel Prizewinning author Pearl S. Buck stated: “A retarded child, a handicapped person, brings its own gift to life, even to the life of normal human beings.” 9
…
**5. No one can tell at what point a fetus is viable. **
Since, at the present stage of medical achievement, a fetus cannot be kept alive outside the mother’s womb before about twenty-four weeks after conception, the new abortion laws allow life to be taken prior to this time.
Some argue that “no one knows when life begins,” so they reason, “Why not consider it at birth?” However, the argument might just as well be reversed to state that if no one really knows when life starts, why not consider it as life at the point when the life-developing processes begin.
The genetic potential that directs the development of all human life is fully established at the moment of conception when the mother’s egg is fertilized by the father’s sperm. The factors that influence temperament, physique, eye, hair, skin color, and even intellectual capacity are all present.
At four weeks the fetus has a functioning heart, before the mother is aware that she is pregnant; by eight weeks there is a central nervous system and ingestive and digestive systems; brain cells, ears, eyes, nose, toes, and fingers are also forming. The baby can even move his head and bend his body, and he is sensitive to touch.
The simple fact is that at no point during a pregnancy is any human capable of knowing when the spirit of life takes up a new abode.
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Montalban
Guest
Of being *against *abortion…
I think that when the LDS say this, it’s like they’re crossing their fingers behind their backs at the same time.
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