The Killer Law!

[MHalsey]

The “M” word? Magdalene? Condemned for true repentance? That is a wierd statement!!

You may be right about the historical consistency. This guy would have surely mentioned it mrm.org/abortion in his discussion of doctrinal inconsistency.

Excuse me if I get impatient with you at times. Sometimes it is difficult to keep my traumatized emotions in check when communicating with Mormons like you.

I think he means “mother”.

In the Catholic Church we do not condemn a woman for getting pregnant out of wedlock, nor do we punish the child. I know of a few cases in my own family where this is true. The sin is in the act of premarital sex, not the conception of a child.

This is simply proof that God can create a beautiful life out of a sinful act.

 

[valient_Lucy]

If two people are drowning, and you are only able to save one of them, which is better, to save one, or do nothing and let both die?

zerinus

That’s a pretty bad analogy. A better one would be,

If two people are drowning, is it morally acceptible to save one person’s life and to pierce the skull of the other person and suck out his brains, killing him in an incredibly painful way, or to do everything in your power to save both of them?

No one is saying to do nothing. If a woman is seven months pregnant and she will die if she continues the pregnancy, the moral thing to do is to do a C-section and place the baby in an incubator in the Neonatal Intensive Care Unit and then do everything possible to keep both the mother and baby alive.

You seem to have some sort of mistaken belief that an aborted baby is simply “allowed to die.” If I suck the brains out of a person’s skull or dismember a human being, I am not simply “allowing someone to die.”

 

[happilycatholic]

Evil means never justify the ends.
How many lives were saved because of this law?

There is always risk (known and unknown) of death when one becomes pregnant. A woman should weigh the risks (known and unknown) before becoming pregnant.

 

[happilycatholic]

A law passed in Nicaragua last November banning all abortions under any circumstances (even when the life of the mother is at risk) has so far led to (at least) 82 avoidable deaths of pregnant women (and their babies, I presume). Here are some news reports:

ippf.org/NR/exeres/07FDE066-6CB9-4A65-8B72-9F59619D5643.htm
parentdish.com/2007/10/10/abortion-ban-in-nicaragua-leads-to-death/
iht.com/articles/2006/11/27/america/web.1127nicaragua.php

Is this Catholicism?

zerinus

First of all, where do these statistics come from? News? That must be taken unto consideration.

Second, the natural purpose (God’s purpose) for intercourse is creation. When one engages in intercourse, one is subjecting oneself to the laws of nature. The end result of intercourse, if God has His way, is pregnancy. There is always risk (known and unknown) of death when one becomes pregnant. This is a risk presumably accepted when a woman has sex. A woman should weigh the risks (known and unknown) before having sex and subsequently becoming pregnant.

 

[Zundrah]

A law passed in Nicaragua last November banning all abortions under any circumstances (even when the life of the mother is at risk) has so far led to (at least) 82 avoidable deaths of pregnant women (and their babies, I presume). Here are some news reports:

ippf.org/NR/exeres/07FDE066-6CB9-4A65-8B72-9F59619D5643.htm
parentdish.com/2007/10/10/abortion-ban-in-nicaragua-leads-to-death/
iht.com/articles/2006/11/27/america/web.1127nicaragua.php

Is this Catholicism?

zerinus

Zerinus, can I ask you if you believe that this is right? I don’t know what the LDS church teaches on this subject of abortion but I can assume that they say it is wrong (just as the catholic and protestant churches say too).
But I personally have never really thought that abortion is wrong, even though on this site I have reserved that thought to my self because people get a bit crazy when you say that.
What do you think? If you don’t want to say it here then you can instead PM me if you want to…

It’s a subject that some people condemn the mentioning of, but others stay open minded about it.
My sister has had one abortion because she was thirteen at the time. She is now twenty one years old and has two little girls aged two and three.

 

[zerinus]

Zerinus, can I ask you if you believe that this is right? I don’t know what the LDS church teaches on this subject of abortion but I can assume that they say it is wrong (just as the catholic and protestant churches say too).
But I personally have never really thought that abortion is wrong, even though on this site I have reserved that thought to my self because people get a bit crazy when you say that.
What do you think? If you don’t want to say it here then you can instead PM me if you want to…

It’s a subject that some people condemn the mentioning of, but others stay open minded about it.
My sister has had one abortion because she was thirteen at the time. She is now twenty one years old and has two little girls aged two and three.

The LDS Church’s position on abortion is found on their website which you can read here and here. I agree with the Church’s stand on that issue.

 

[Zundrah]

The LDS Church’s position on abortion is found on their website which you can read here and here. I agree with the Church’s stand on that issue.

thank you for responding but see this part;

Human life is a sacred gift from God. Elective abortion for personal or social convenience is contrary to the will and the commandments of God. Church members who submit to, perform, encourage, pay for, or arrange for such abortions may lose their membership in the Church.

How and why would they loose member ship of their church? If they loose member ship to their church does that mean that they are no longer considered a true Mormon as such? But to loose some one from your church is to abandon them, and that is just wrong isn’t it? My church would never dump any one even if they did have an abortion. Abortion is a sad thing to happen but to actually dismiss a person from the church is very wrong.

 

[zerinus]

thank you for responding but see this part;

How and why would they loose member ship of their church? If they loose member ship to their church does that mean that they are no longer considered a true Mormon as such?

You lose your membership by being excommunicated (or voluntarily resigning) from the Church. All churches have ways of disciplining their members who step out of line, otherwise the Church’s integrity could not be maintained. Excommunication is the severest form of discipline that can be imposed on a Church member. It means that the person is no longer a member of the Church.

But to loose some one from your church is to abandon them, and that is just wrong isn’t it? My church would never dump any one even if they did have an abortion. Abortion is a sad thing to happen but to actually dismiss a person from the church is very wrong.

Excommunicating them does not mean that they are “abandoned” or “dumped”. They are encouraged to continue to attend Church (with certain restrictions), and the Church continues to work with and support them through the process of repentance until they can be readmitted back into Church membership.

 

[Zundrah]

You lose your membership by being excommunicated (or voluntarily resigning) from the Church. All churches have ways of disciplining their members who step out of line, otherwise the Church’s integrity could not be maintained. Excommunication is the severest form of discipline that can be imposed on a Church member. It means that the person is no longer a member of the Church.

Excommunicating them does not mean that they are “abandoned” or “dumped”. They are encouraged to continue to attend Church (with certain restrictions), and the Church continues to work with and support them through the process of repentance until they can be readmitted back into Church membership.

I think that more churches should do this. I know a few people who should be excommunicated… But what is second worse to this in the LDS church?

 

[zerinus]

I think that more churches should do this. I know a few people who should be excommunicated… But what is second worse to this in the LDS church?

The second worst is probably being disfellowshipped. You do not lose your membership in the Church; but you lose many of its privileges until your rehabilitation.

 

[Zundrah]

The second worst is probably being disfellowshipped. You do not lose your membership in the Church; but you lose many of its privileges until your rehabilitation.

Can any one be fully kicked out at all?