The kneeling saga continues

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Hey, first things first…new here, name’s John-Paul.

In a U.S. church that doesn’t have any kneeling during the Mass, should kneeling be done anyway?

The parish that I belong to removed the kneelers 10 years ago, long before I joined the parish. We do not kneel at all during the Mass, and I’m starting to find it rather disrespectful. I grew up in the Novus Ordo, but left the faith for about 13 years. For the past couple years I’ve gradually renewed my faith and things are starting to come back.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal clearly states that we are to kneel at certain points.

The question is: would I be “holier than thou” to start kneeling on the floor during those particular parts of the liturgy?

Once I get a little more involved in the parish I’m going to try to convince the pastor to bring the kneelers back. Until then, I’m not sure what the best course of action would be. I feel the most reverence for the Lord when I’m kneeling. But I certainly don’t want to interfere with others. However, when I mentioned things like this to a priest from a different parish, he told me to “be the example.”

How commonplace is standing for the traditional kneeling parts of the liturgy?

Thanks.
 
The guideline I would use is as follows:

1.) If you’re kneeling to prove a point, you’re being “holier than thou.”

2.) If you’re kneeling because the rubrics say to do so, you’re fine.

3.) If you’re kneeling because you are being reverent to our Lord and because you wish to follow the rubrics, you’re fine.

It’s only when we do something deliberately at Mass or Divine Liturgy with the intent to prove a point that we’re being “holier than thou.”

Of course, if doing something for the right reasons also proves a point, that’s OK too.

When I play for Mass, after the Sanctus concludes, I get up from the piano bench and kneel down on the floor until Father sets the chalice back onto the altar. I don’t much care that the floor is hard and uncomfortable on my knees. I’m also not doing it to prove a point, and I could just as easily justify remaining on the piano bench (I do need to be ready to play the Memorial Acclamation). I do it because I’m showing reverence for the Lord. Also, because if I don’t, when I kneel at Masses when I don’t play, my butt starts to hurt from the kneeling because my muscles are out of shape. A little pain kneeling on the floor when I play leads to a lot less when I kneel on the comfy kneelers when I don’t play. 👍
 
Hello and welcome! My former parish also did not have kneeling pads and we stood during the times we should have kneeled. I agree that it felt strange but I figured that the priest knew what he was doing. To make some people kneel on a bare floor would not be practical. For example, my mom and my sister both have problems with their knees and it would be torture if not impossible for them to kneel. I agree that you should speak to your priest about bringing back the pads. There may be a reason that they aren’t used. I don’t think it would be wrong for you to kneel even if others around you aren’t. I certainly wouldn’t view that as a “Holier than thou” action. Keep us posted on this. I’m curious to hear how it turns out.

May the peace of our Lord be with you,
Maggie
 
Magnum_V8 said:
Hey, first things first…new here, name’s John-Paul.

In a U.S. church that doesn’t have any kneeling during the Mass, should kneeling be done anyway?

The parish that I belong to removed the kneelers 10 years ago, long before I joined the parish. We do not kneel at all during the Mass, and I’m starting to find it rather disrespectful. I grew up in the Novus Ordo, but left the faith for about 13 years. For the past couple years I’ve gradually renewed my faith and things are starting to come back.

The General Instruction of the Roman Missal clearly states that we are to kneel at certain points.

The question is: would I be “holier than thou” to start kneeling on the floor during those particular parts of the liturgy?

Once I get a little more involved in the parish I’m going to try to convince the pastor to bring the kneelers back. Until then, I’m not sure what the best course of action would be. I feel the most reverence for the Lord when I’m kneeling. But I certainly don’t want to interfere with others. However, when I mentioned things like this to a priest from a different parish, he told me to “be the example.”

How commonplace is standing for the traditional kneeling parts of the liturgy?

Thanks.
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Yes everyone who can should be kneeling. The next capitol improvement should be kneelers.
 
personally, I find kneelers uncomfortable and find bare floor preferable… but that is just me. As far as your motives… discern whether you are just trying to make a point, if the answer is no… feel free to kneel. I bet others are just dying to join you.
 
In a situation like that, I just feel extremely uncomfortable not kneeling. So we do it anyway, right there on the floor. We get some funny looks, but I think it is just more respectful to Jesus in the Eucharist. So, just do it.
 
Before I came to North-America, I have never been in a church where all the people would stand when they should have been kneeling - it was extremely strange the first time! So much so that I decided to go to mass in another church. I grew up knowing that those who chose to stand rather than kneel were either too old, too infirm, or too Protestant to kneel down… Not being either, it felt weird to stand. However, I decided to stand with the others - it just takes you out of the community assembled for mass if you follow a private rite of your own, unless you have a place in a corner, or you are in the back of the church where it is not such an obvious statement.
 
Thanks for making the decision so easy. :hmmm:

As far as my reasons for kneeling if I were to do so, the main reason would be that I feel it is the right thing to do. But, yes, part of it has to do with the fact that it would be following the GIRM and maybe persuading others to do the same.

I believe the priest that removed the kneelers 10 years ago is no longer a priest. I have no idea what his reasoning was, though.
 
Margita said:
…However, I decided to stand with the others - it just takes you out of the community assembled for mass if you follow a private rite of your own, unless you have a place in a corner, or you are in the back of the church where it is not such an obvious statement.
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I agree with you, Margita, that we should conform our actions with the assembly; regardless of one’s motivation, kneeling in the situation Magnum describes might be interpreted by others as “showboating.” I also agree with UtahMaggie that it would be best if Magnum were to talk to his pastor about having kneelers added by explaining how he feels that kneeling shows greater reverence to the Lord.

Good luck!
 
We should always kneel before Our Lord at Mass. I don’t care what the others do…I see before me Our Lord and I remember reading about the Saints who would kneel in the mud when the Euchrist was raised during a procession.
And we are too imbarrassed to kneel without kneelers? As Mother Angelica used to say, “You have knees”.
 
Our Lord and St Paul also emphasized charity, especially when we celebrate together as a community. St Paul had something to say about eating and scandal… you might want to check it out.
I don’t think Our Lord would appreciate individualism as much as a bit of restraint in individual devotion for the sake of others around us. Mass is for celebrating as a community. I used to whisper the Our Father and the Credo in my native language until I realised that I am not in harmony with the people around us - now I say them in English and I have not yet died of it.
 
I agree with SORROWS. When the consecration occurs, that’s Christ being among us in a substantial way! It transcends more than guidelines or showboating…it’s showing reverence, worship and true understanding of Christ’s sacrifice and His desire to be with us and live in us! Why be afraid to show this???

I sing in two choirs at my parish - no kneelers for the musicians. All of us kneel during the Eucharistic prayer.
 
Tonks40 said:
I sing in two choirs at my parish - no kneelers for the musicians. All of us kneel during the Eucharistic prayer.
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The point is, you ALL kneel. You do this unanimously - in agreement. But when the congregation stands up and you kneel down - you may, individually, show your reverence to the Eucharist, but you show your disagreement to the congregation and probably diminish their own devotion by your embarrassing behavior. Not to mention the fact that you also break the unity expressed by the uniform posture of the congregation.
 
And do not forget that the fact that those people stand does not mean that they have less reverence to the Eucharist.
 
Margita said:
Our Lord and St Paul also emphasized charity, especially when we celebrate together as a community. St Paul had something to say about eating and scandal… you might want to check it out.
I don’t think Our Lord would appreciate individualism as much as a bit of restraint in individual devotion for the sake of others around us. Mass is for celebrating as a community. I used to whisper the Our Father and the Credo in my native language until I realised that I am not in harmony with the people around us - now I say them in English and I have not yet died of it.
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“Mass is for celebrating as a community.”

The purpose of Mass is NOT a social function, it is for worshiping God and giving Him thanks.
 
At the miracle of the Sun in Fatima the crowds did not hesitate to kneel in the absense of kneelers.

At the miracle of the Son in Holy Mass the absence of kneelers is no excuse not to kneel unless you are dispensed from doing so under the conditions determined for dispensation e.g. health etc.

The earth is the greatest kneeler of all. They can’t take that away from us.

If you believe and can kneel… KNEEL!.

If you can kneel and don’t… it throws serious doubts over your faith in the Holy Mass.
 
I go to mass in a hall rather than a Church and we have no kneelers. The majority of people dont kneel whilst others do or people bow etc etc. Everyone does there own little thing, everyone is somehow showing respect in their own way and it works but the important thing is to make sure you are showing praise. If kneeling is what makes you feel the most respectful then kneel, i do.
 
Margita said:
The point is, you ALL kneel. You do this unanimously - in agreement. But when the congregation stands up and you kneel down - you may, individually, show your reverence to the Eucharist, but you show your disagreement to the congregation and probably diminish their own devotion by your embarrassing behavior. Not to mention the fact that you also break the unity expressed by the uniform posture of the congregation.
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I don’t think any Catholic Saint would agree with you. ALL KNEES SHOULD BEND…is not just a bunch of words. We show reverence to Our Lord Jesus Christ when we kneel and prostate before Him who created us and died for us. As a life long Catholic I see standing as just another modern change taking devotion away from the Mass and making it more Protestant, more of this world rather than the spiritual.
 
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