The Last Judgment

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opusAquinas

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What will the Last Judgment look like?

It will all be about God’s mercy and justice.

Look at the person who just squeaks into heaven or squeaks in hell.
  1. Jeffrey Daumer was baptized in prison. Or the person who does awful things but clings to the confessional only from fear of hell but doesn’t care about Jesus at all.
  2. How about the atheist who lives humanely but rejects Jesus?
So at the Last Judgment: Jesus will show His mercy and His justice. Those who accept Jesus and those who rejected Him.
 
Ok. At the Last Judgment:

We could actually see this scenario:

Jeffrey Daumer who was baptized in prison going to heaven.

Christopher Hitchens an atheist being sent to hell.

A Buddhist who rejects Jesus but lived a “normal” life being sent to hell.

🤷
 
opusAquinas said:
Ok. At the Last Judgment:

We could actually see this scenario:

Jeffrey Daumer who was baptized in prison going to heaven.

Christopher Hitchens an atheist being sent to hell.

A Buddhist who rejects Jesus but lived a “normal” life being sent to hell.

🤷
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Since neither of us is God, we are not qualified to make the judgments above.
 
davidv said:
Since neither of us is God, we are not qualified to make the judgments above.
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Yes but we know salvation is through Jesus Christ.
So we will see how God’s mercy and justice is distributed.
 
opusAquinas said:
Yes but we know salvation is through Jesus Christ.
So we will see how God’s mercy and justice is distributed.
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We may see during the last judgment, however we cannot predict what it will be for specific individuals.
 
davidv said:
We may see during the last judgment, however we cannot predict what it will be for specific individuals.
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We can with certainty for most individuals except the canonized. We don’t know what He will say about them - how He will judge them but we know their eternal destiny now and then.

I’m interested in how. Will He say - here were all the opportunities/graces I gave you and you efficiently willed to will in conformity with my will?
 
opusAquinas said:
We can with certainty for most individuals except the canonized. We don’t know what He will say about them - how He will judge them but we know their eternal destiny now and then.

I’m interested in how. Will He say - here were all the opportunities/graces I gave you and you efficiently willed to will in conformity with my will?
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All answers to this question will be pure speculation.
 
As an example. St. Paul at the Last Judgment: “God had you not blinded me for three days and given me those graces I would surely be damned. But you mercifully saved me.” God then distributes merit to St. Paul for whenever St. Paul did God’s will.
 
opusAquinas said:
  1. How about the atheist who lives humanely but rejects Jesus?
.
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opusAquinas said:
Christopher Hitchens an atheist being sent to hell.

A Buddhist who rejects Jesus but lived a “normal” life being sent to hell.
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We do not enter into life by our “good deeds” by our virtues. But they can be a good sign of our openness to God even if we do not know it…that we are open to truth and goodness - open to God. God can work with this - God can reach us in ways others do not see.
Yes it is possible for those who through not fault of their own do not know Jesus or his Church…but who still seek God…and seek to live according to his will as they see in their conscience …

It will of course still be Jesus of Nazareth the Christ and Logos who saves them…(and WE are to proclaim Christ…the Gospel to them!)

Whoever is saved in the end…will be saved by Jesus Christ…even if he has never heard of him or the Church …

But yes if a person has heard the Gospel…and rejected Christ…this is not a positive sign…

Having said that…

Now there can be “more to the story” they may have not heard it properly …or were beat by someone claiming to be doing so as a Christian or something…lots can go into why this question…things we do not know or see.

And God can reach them in ways we do not know or see…

Such yes can include atheists and others.

bottom line …we do not know and God does He wills our salvation…and knows what the person may have rejected (a “fake Jesus”) etc…

Jesus came to give us true life - he is the Logos and the Good Shepherd in search for the sheep …
 
Bookcat said:
We do not enter into life by our “good deeds” by our virtues. But they can be a good sign of our openness to God even if we do not know it.
Yes it is possible for those who through not fault of their own do not know Jesus or his Church…but who still seek God…and seek to live according to his will as they see in their conscience …

It will of course still be Jesus of Nazareth the Christ and Logos who saves them…(and WE are to proclaim Christ…the Gospel to them!)

Whoever is saved in the end…will be saved by Jesus Christ…even if he has never heard of him or the Church …

But yes if a person has heard the Gospel…and rejected Christ…this is not a positive sign…

Having said that…

Now there can be “more to the story” they may have not heard it properly …or were beat by someone claiming to be doing so as a Christian or something…lots can go into why this question…things we do not know or see.

And God can reach them in ways we do not know or see…

Such yes can include atheists and others.

bottom line …we do not know and God does He wills our salvation…and knows what the person may have rejected (a “fake Jesus”) etc…

Jesus came to give us true life - he is the Logos and the Good Shepherd in search for the sheep …
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Yes, no salvation outside the Church - outside Jesus.

But at the Last Judgment, I think I know how it would go with my St. Paul example.
 
Bookcat said:
Already answered.
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Yes Jesus alone saves. We Catholics all know this.

My question was really how does He judge?

How will God judge you, me or any of us? And I don’t necessarily mean the ultimate heaven or hell but just how. He makes one pot for this another for that. But how?

And I wrote:
As an example. St. Paul at the Last Judgment: “God had you not blinded me for three days and given me those graces I would surely be damned. But you mercifully saved me.” God then distributes merit to St. Paul for whenever St. Paul did God’s will.

I think I answered my own question. I think it is correct.

You will see when God acted and you responded.
 
opusAquinas said:
Yes Jesus alone saves. We Catholics all know this.

My question was really how does He judge?

How will God judge you, me or any of us? And I don’t necessarily mean the ultimate heaven or hell but just how. He makes one pot for this another for that. But how?
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You cannot not know this. Scripture records that eye has not seen and ear has not hear what is in store for us in heaven.
And I wrote:
As an example. St. Paul at the Last Judgment: “God had you not blinded me for three days and given me those graces I would surely be damned. But you mercifully saved me.” God then distributes merit to St. Paul for whenever St. Paul did God’s will.
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Why do you think this is about Paul’s last judgment?
I think I answered my own question. I think it is correct.

You will see when God acted and you responded.
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opusAquinas said:
My question was really how does He judge?
And I wrote:
As an example. St. Paul at the Last Judgment: “God had you not blinded me for three days and given me those graces I would surely be damned. But you mercifully saved me.” God then distributes merit to St. Paul for whenever St. Paul did God’s will.

I answered my own question. I think it is correct.
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Entering into true life comes from and in Jesus Christ and thus his Church.

Tis a gift - a grace.

Not something we earn.

Are there those who never hear the name of Jesus or His Church and yet via Jesus and mysteriously his Church - know true life - receive that life and remain in it and thus enter into eternal life? Yes.

Are there those who never hear the name of Jesus or His Church and yet via Jesus and mysteriously his Church - know true life - receive that life but do not remain it or return by grace to it? Yes we can say that such can be the case.

Are there those who receive Baptism into Christ who later loose that life - and later die in mortal sin and thus goto hell? Yes such can be the case.

Salvation comes from Jesus - we do not enter into such by our good works - but once we are in Christ - we need to remain living in Christ to the end. Same with those who through no fault of their own do not become Christians via Faith and Baptism but God reaches them in ways we do not see. They too will need to leave this world “in true life”.

God can though even save them or us in the very last moments (but we are not to presume on such and live terrible lives away from God).

God knows each and knows each through and through.
 
Bookcat said:
Entering into true life comes from and in Jesus Christ and thus his Church.

Tis a gift - a grace.

Not something we earn.

Are there those who never hear the name of Jesus or His Church and yet via Jesus and mysteriously his Church - know true life - receive that life and remain in it and thus enter into eternal life? Yes.

Are there those who never hear the name of Jesus or His Church and yet via Jesus and mysteriously his Church - know true life - receive that life but do not remain it or return by grace to it? Yes we can say that such can be the case.

Are there those who receive Baptism into Christ who later loose that life - and later die in mortal sin and thus goto hell? Yes such can be the case.

Salvation comes from Jesus - we do not enter into such by our good works - but once we are in Christ - we need to remain living in Christ to the end. Same with those who through no fault of their own do not become Christians via Faith and Baptism but God reaches them in ways we do not see. They too will need to leave this world “in true life”.

God can though even save them or us in the very last moments (but we are not to presume on such and live terrible lives away from God).

God knows each and knows each through and through.
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I think in this day and age everyone has heard of Jesus maybe not the Gospel. But it is the first prompting.
 
davidv said:
You cannot not know this. Scripture records that eye has not seen and ear has not hear what is in store for us in heaven.

Why do you think this is about Paul’s last judgment?
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I don’t know what heaven will be like. I did not say that.

I said how will God judge.
I posit that you will see the times God prompted you with grace and you responded. Basically, you will be rewarded for all times you acted like Christ would or wanted you to: you did not your will but God’s will. You will be rewarded accordingly; merit. congruous and condign merit… I think I remember something about that.
 
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