The Latin(o) Mass

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Generalization? He used the word “differences” four times, “diversity” once and “diverse” once. He no more generalized about a whole group of hispanics than he did about a whole group religious. Now we can believe that culture does not exist, that history does not exist, or is irrelevant, or that two have nothing to do with each other. Perhaps what we have here is a lack of understanding of English. It is not rhetoric, but academic to speak of historical trends and their effects without every five words throwing a disclaimer in for the easily offended or politically correct.
Please realize that the goal of 10thCrusader isn’t as straightforward as you might think.
Quote from: 10th_Crusader
Ha! you know your old pal JREducation? I reported him on CAF! It was a well-founded report. He made some borderline racist comments about Hispanics on a thread I started. So I hit the button. I’m sure he totally offended some of the thoughtful Hispanic viewers on the forum. He talked about them like they were a bunch of ignorant savages. Let’s see how much of a moderators pet he is…
The goal isn’t to defend anyone, but to report and have banned, JREducation.

The next quote from 10thCrusader is:
I’m sure I don’t have much time left there. I may go from New Member directly to Banned. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Both of these quotes are from another forum, that seems to have a problem with JREducation.
 
Both of these quotes are from another forum, that seems to have a problem with JREducation.
I am a poster on the forum in question and I have my own views on Br. JR. I would prefer not to be identified with the comments of others.
 
I think the problem with my post is the use of the word “hatred”.

Allow me to explain this, so that no one is offended.

When I use the term “hatred” or “hate” in this context, I’m not speaking of an evil that we call hatred. I’m using it just as we would use it when describing something that we don’t like, something that feels very foreign to us, something that we rather not use or have.

If I’m choosing between two cars, lets say a Doge and a Toyota. I may say, “I hate that one, but I love this one.”

Do I literally habor evil feelings for one car? No.

I could just as easily have said that in my many years working and living among Latin Americans I have observed that it’s a very complex community where one size does not fit all, because there are many prejudices, memories, conflicts in their history, insecurities and cultural differences that makes people apprehensive about things. I can say all of this, leave out the word hatred and still be totally correct.

The Latin American community is not as simple as some make it out to be. Therefore, in pastoral care, one has to be very sensitive to these differences, invite without imposing and wait patiently.

When you’re in Mexico, Puerto Rico, Cuba, etc, pastoral care is much easier than in the USA where you have many cultures from Latin America in one place. The great advantage to pastoral care here is that faith actually makes friends out of mortal enemies. The best example that I can offer are the people of Ecuador and the people of Peru.

If we were back in either country, they would tell you that they’re mortal enemies and have been for a long time, all over a piece of land on the southwest side of Ecuador that Peru annexed and Ecuador still holds that it was an unjust theft.

However, bring them to the USA and they are drawn together by have they have in common and they lay aside the differences. It’s necessary for their survival here. Spanish and Catholicism are the strongest bonds between them.

However, that does not mean that we can give them one size Catholicism either. They have their faith history, which one cannot deny or ignore. That would be disrespectful. Imagine being in a parish of Mexican Americans and ignoring the Feast of Our Lady of Guadalupe or the Feast of St. Juan Diego, but celebrating the Feast of Our Lady of Charity of Cobre, because there is a small Cuban community in the parish and we just assume that since they’re all Catholic, it makes no difference which title we use to honor Mary. The would be a very poor assumption.

Rather than go into this whole long analysis of the Latino Catholic community, I tried to summarize it and present it in bullets. Even this is not a complete analysis, but it’s more than what is needed here.

We must also remember that the purpose of the OP was to share his thoughts on the EF and the Spanish speaking community. I just simply broke down how the Spanish speaking community is composed.

If that’s a crime, prove it.
 
Please realize that the goal of 10thCrusader isn’t as straightforward as you might think.

The goal isn’t to defend anyone, but to report and have banned, JREducation.

The next quote from 10thCrusader is:

Both of these quotes are from another forum, that seems to have a problem with JREducation.
I am shocked. SHOCKED I say, that Crusader is on a crusade. :eek:
😉
 
I am a poster on the forum in question and I have my own views on Br. JR. I would prefer not to be identified with the comments of others.
Can’t speak for the others, but I have read and have appreciated your defense of BrJr and your spiritually mature posts over there.
 
I think that we reflect on this part our our traditional faith that we all share.
To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love.
Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.
What has happened here is uncalled for. It is the work of evil to attack anyone like has happened here.
 
Good stuff from Br. JR. I suspect American understanding of these groups is hampered by the fact that liberalism has substantially weakened our own tendency to identify with ethnic/regional groups, so we assume that, since we don’t care about these things, neither do other people.
 
I’m not feeling the esteem from your words. You seem to be examining them like bugs under a microscope. I have Mexican relatives by marriage, and I do find such negative and patronizing generalizations a bit insulting to them. I know my relatives from Guadalajara would be offended by such a post. Could you please keep this on a higher plane and think better of our Catholic brothers and sisters?

If you have some constructive ideas for reaching out to them in good spirit, rather than just wringing your hands and speaking of the hatred you find in them, I would be happy to hear it.
I see that you have posted about this thread here: catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3442924.msg33862610.html#msg33862610
10th_Crusader:
Ha! you know your old pal JREducation? I reported him on CAF! It was a well-founded report. He made some borderline racist comments about Hispanics on a thread I started. So I hit the button. I’m sure he totally offended some of the thoughtful Hispanic viewers on the forum. He talked about them like they were a bunch of ignorant savages. Let’s see how much of a moderators pet he is…
You make no mention that you have “relatives from Guadalajara” on fisheaters. In fact the above quote gives the implication that you were not offended but, rather, you believe that those of Hispanic descent were offended. The above statement makes me think that you are playing devil’s advocate via lies.
 
You make no mention that you have “relatives from Guadalajara” on fisheaters. In fact the above quote gives the implication that you were not offended but, rather, you believe that those of Hispanic descent were offended. The above statement makes me think that you are playing devil’s advocate via lies.
This was quoted earlier in the thread. It still applies.:
To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:
Code:
Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love.
Detraction and calumny destroy the reputation and honor of one’s neighbor. Honor is the social witness given to human dignity, and everyone enjoys a natural right to the honor of his name and reputation and to respect. Thus, detraction and calumny offend against the virtues of justice and charity.
 
I don’t like it when people from fisheaters come here to troll and and then discuss their progress on a special thread about CAF on their own forums. :takethat:
I do not like it either but it is not sufficient reason to accuse a person of lying.
 
I don’t like it when people from fisheaters come here to troll and and then discuss their progress on a special thread about CAF on their own forums. :takethat:
Well I guess it’s out in open now.

catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3456454.0.html

Long thread here, skip to page 38.
catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3442924.0.html

I don’t really need to comment because the threads speak volumes.
I personally would be ashamed if I had written some of that stuff, but I guess I’m just a typical unspiritual Catholic who attends the Novus Ordo. We can’t be the spiritual giants they are.
 
I don’t like it when people from fisheaters come here to troll and and then discuss their progress on a special thread about CAF on their own forums. :takethat:
No one does.

But it is best not to mention the actual website. Our forum has rules against swarming other boards. (A policy that would do a lot of good on other forums.)
 
I do not like it either but it is not sufficient reason to accuse a person of lying.
“The above statement makes me think that you are playing devil’s advocate via lies.”

I did not state that she was lying. I addressed to her that I think she is playing playing devil’s by lying. She can correct me.
 
No one does.

But it is best not to mention the actual website. Our forum has rules against swarming other boards. (A policy that would do a lot of good on other forums.)
Yes, it states: “It also prohibits “board swarms,” which are calls for members to go to another web site or Internet discussion forum to harass its proprietors or members.”

Source: forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=177277

I have never promoted harassing other peoples’ boards. I used a link to support what I believe a person is doing on our board.
 
The separation of the Spanish-speaking and English-speaking communities in the parish has always disturbed me greatly. When we first started the Latin Mass in our old parish back in 1994, we were really excited about the possibility of providing a means of unity between the English-speaking community and the large Spanish-speaking community in our parish. We diligently laid out the white Latin-Spanish missal booklets next to the red Latin-English missal booklets in the back of the church every Sunday, but none of the Spanish-speaking Catholics came.

I think a lot of the Latin Mass groups hoped that this would also happen, as I see a few of the white Latin-Spanish missal booklets in the other EF Masses I have attended. They don’t set them out as often any more though. I think they have given up on the idea. It’s sad. It could have been such a great opportunity. As a cultural Hispanic, can you think of some means to revive this potential for unity?
From my knowledge of Mexicans (I’m not as familiar with the others), I’ve found that for the most part they are docile and will follow a pastor if they are led. The pastor, however, has to make that effort and that’s something I have not seen at my parish. Over there, the Hispanic community runs rampant and does whatever they please and none of the past three pastors have tried to do anything with them. There is a huge divide between the two groups at that parish and I do not see it getting any better until there’s a pastor who can handle them. As for us lay people, I do not see that there’s a lot we can do without the pastor taking the reins on it.
 
I think the problem with my post is the use of the word “hatred”.

Allow me to explain this, so that no one is offended.

When I use the term “hatred” or “hate” in this context, I’m not speaking of an evil that we call hatred. I’m using it just as we would use it when describing something that we don’t like, something that feels very foreign to us, something that we rather not use or have.

If I’m choosing between two cars, lets say a Doge and a Toyota. I may say, “I hate that one, but I love this one.”

Do I literally habor evil feelings for one car? No.
While that is what I had always assumed you meant, one has to be careful of wording. I know for a fact that I’ve mentioned something before using the wrong wording and people have jumped me for it. When I bother to explain, the reaction is usually: “Sure you meant that. What a cop out!” Happens to others, too.

So, not directed at anyone, but if we’re all expected to take Brother JR’s clarification as is (and I’m willing to), I think everyone else deserves the same when they clear up something that they said, right?
 
I see that you have posted about this thread here: catholicforum.fisheaters.com/index.php/topic,3442924.msg33862610.html#msg33862610

You make no mention that you have “relatives from Guadalajara” on fisheaters. In fact the above quote gives the implication that you were not offended but, rather, you believe that those of Hispanic descent were offended. The above statement makes me think that you are playing devil’s advocate via lies.
Imagine that.
:cool:
Almost as if the purpose of this thread was to entrap…
 
While that is what I had always assumed you meant, one has to be careful of wording. I know for a fact that I’ve mentioned something before using the wrong wording and people have jumped me for it. When I bother to explain, the reaction is usually: “Sure you meant that. What a cop out!” Happens to others, too.

So, not directed at anyone, but if we’re all expected to take Brother JR’s clarification as is (and I’m willing to), I think everyone else deserves the same when they clear up something that they said, right?
Agree completely. But I will point out that as a member of both sites, 10th Crusader’s postings seem to be purposefully baiting towards others. It’s not becoming of those who are attached (for any reason) to the Tridentine mass.
 
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