The Law

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FireFromHeaven

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I have two questions that have been nagging at me for a while now. First why do we only follow the moral part of the Law? If Christ came to fulfill it doesnt that mean we still have to have a law to fulfill? Second if the Law was from God why did it need fixing? Why did it have such brutal punishments such as stoning for often seemingly trivial things like breaking Sabbath? Help appreciated.
 
The laws you find recorded in the old testament are threefold:


  1. *]the moral law of God-- a.k.a. the Decalogue or the Ten Commandments
    *]the ceremonial laws of the Jewish religion
    *]the civil and criminal laws (penal code) of the Israelite people as a nation

    The law Jesus was talking about was the first one-- the moral law of God.
 
I would like to answer the last part- from a traditional, Orthodox Jewish perspective. I hope you don’t mind.

We aren’t the ones to decide what is and isn’t trivial. G-d is. He compared the Sabbath to the creation itself (Exodus 20:7-10). Willfully denying the Sabbath is tantamount to denying G-d creating “the heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them”. Theologically, it can’t get much worse.

On the other hand, G-d is merciful:
*but the seventh day is a sabbath unto the L-RD thy G-d, in it thou shalt not do any manner of work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, nor thy man-servant, nor thy maid-servant, nor thine ox, nor thine **, nor any of thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates; that thy man-servant and thy maid-servant may rest as well as thou… And thou shalt remember that thou was a servant in the land of Egypt, and the L-RD thy G-d brought thee out thence by a mighty hand and by an outstretched arm; therefore the L-RD thy G-d commanded thee to keep the sabbath day. (Deut. 5:13-14)
He gives us the Sabbath as a gift.

The fact is that according to Jewish law, to inflict the death penalty is almost impossible. Two eyewitnesses must have seen the perpetrator about to commit the crime and warned him of the potential penalty. The murderer must verbally answer that he chooses to proceed anyway. Twenty-three, rather than the usual three judges, must sit on the rabbinical court, among other requirements. Circumstantial evidence is never allowed in a Jewish court hearing a capital case, and a person cannot testify against themselves.

Similarly, a court that executed once in 70 years was referred to as a bloody court. As such, the death penalty was effectively legislated out of existence.

That’s how severe Jewish law takes the death penalty.

In essense, G-d is stressing just how seriously we need to take His word, but at the same time, is merciful when it comes to punishment.
 
FireFromHeaven said:
I have two questions that have been nagging at me for a while now. First why do we only follow the moral part of the Law? If Christ came to fulfill it doesnt that mean we still have to have a law to fulfill? Second if the Law was from God why did it need fixing? Why did it have such brutal punishments such as stoning for often seemingly trivial things like breaking Sabbath? Help appreciated.
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Christ gave us the Beattitudes as our “new” law. We should be so focused on doing what is good that we don’t have to worry about what we should avoid.

The Law never needed fixing. Christ Himself said that not one letter or part of a letter of the law would pass away.

YKohen’s response about the Sabbath is great. The Letter of Barnabas is an early Christian writing that agrees with the idea that the day of worship is instrinsically linked to creation.

Barnabas 15:8b-9
after that I have brought all things to an end, I shall make a beginning of the eighth day, which thing is the beginning of another world.

Wherefore we keep the eighth day as a day of gladness, on which also Jesus rose from the dead, and after he had appeared ascended unto heaven.

Barnabas interprets the Lord’s Day (Sunday) as the day of **re-**creation and calls it the “eighth” day, so it is simultaneously the first and eighth.
 
wow ykohen! never knew all that

firefromheaven…we have to remember as we read the scriptures, it comes from an ancient culture and ancient time period and not view it from our legal/cultural lenses.

But Christ did not come to destory/change the law. He said: " I have not come to destroy but FULLFILL".

The laws taught how awful sin was, and how far the people had to run to stay away from it. Jesus in all actuality made it harder. He took it from an act…to even sinning without even moving “but i say to you even if a man LOOKS at a woman lustfully…they have already commited adultry in their heart”! The laws all had to do with outward offenses…Christ made it known that the laws had to travel inward and change the heart and mind.

The laws were/are perfect and God did not change…it’s we humans that had to evolve/change.

At first, God was dealing with a people with no laws, no culture, no real “home” no society…by giving laws, he helped formed that and by the law separated them out from the world around them…the laws offered some stability as the society was growing. It also helped them spiritually by teaching what sin was and to avoid it at all costs. The law taught the people a real spiritual truth!!! That sin = death. As they grew…God took them a steph further and Christ taught to look at the heart.

Example…one of the “brutal” laws of the old testament said that if you have a prisioner of war…they are to be executed swiftly. Was God being harsH? No, He just knew where His people were spiritaully at the time. By swift execution, the prisioners would not be tourtured or raped etc etc.

Life example: I have a 17month old son… I deal with him differently now in discipline than I will when he’s older and more mature and has reason. Right now, he gets a little spank on the bottom if he runs out into the street…later, he will be able to cross the street so long as he looks both ways.
 
FireFromHeaven said:
I have two questions that have been nagging at me for a while now. First why do we only follow the moral part of the Law? If Christ came to fulfill it doesnt that mean we still have to have a law to fulfill? Second if the Law was from God why did it need fixing? Why did it have such brutal punishments such as stoning for often seemingly trivial things like breaking Sabbath? Help appreciated.
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The following is from the Catechism on the “Old Law”. The Law is right and good and we still need to obey OT but, by itself, without grace/the life of God in us, it cannot accomplish the justification of man on its own. IRS main purpose was to be a teacher, demonstrating that man cannot fulfill Gods will *apart from Him. * “Apart from me you can do nothing”. John 15:5. This is the basis of the New Covenant.
 
just a thought:

In God, we find ultimate and eternal fulfillment and Truth; while sin leads us from this, our Home, we have the Law to inform us of the dangers.
That the matter is serious is known to the martyrs who chose God.

God is Love.
 
Sumpin’ didn’t work out quite right in my post #6 so I’ll start over.

The following is from the Catechism on the “Old Law”. The Law is right and good and we still need to obey it but, by itself, without grace/the life of God in us, it cannot accomplish the justification of man on its own. The law’s main purpose was to be a teacher, demonstrating that man cannot fulfill God’s will apart from Him. “Apart from me you can do nothing”. John 15:5. This is the basis of the New Covenant.

**1962 The Old Law is the first stage of revealed Law. Its moral prescriptions are summed up in the Ten Commandments. The precepts of the Decalogue lay the foundations for the vocation of man fashioned in the image of God; they prohibit what is contrary to the love of God and neighbor and prescribe what is essential to it. The Decalogue is a light offered to the conscience of every man to make God’s call and ways known to him and to protect him against evil:

God wrote on the tables of the Law what men did not read in their hearts.13

1963 According to Christian tradition, the Law is holy, spiritual, and good,14 yet still imperfect. Like a tutor15 it shows what must be done, but does not of itself give the strength, the grace of the Spirit, to fulfill it. Because of sin, which it cannot remove, it remains a law of bondage. According to St. Paul, its special function is to denounce and disclose sin, which constitutes a “law of concupiscence” in the human heart.16 However, the Law remains the first stage on the way to the kingdom. It prepares and disposes the chosen people and each Christian for conversion and faith in the Savior God. It provides a teaching which endures for ever, like the Word of God.
**
 
Ok thank you all for clearing that up. However if the law is not to pass away then why do we only follow the moral part? Also if the law came from God why does it not have the power to save?
 
But it does have the power to save.

It protects us from a fall …which can become even deadly!

Also, the actual stone tablets of the law were one of a few objects that were placed in the “Ark of the Covenant”…This is was the object that was carried by the Isralites and when ever the made a camp or when they later built the jewish temple…it was housed in the Holy Of Holies and was where God was supposed to dwell.

In this Ark was the 10 comandment tablets, the Rod of Aron (priest), Manna(bread) from heaven they ate in the dessert and the pentanuch…the jewish bible (Gods word).

We’ve always looked at this ark to symbolize Mary…because she held within her womb , Jesus…the the high priest, Gods word, and the bread from heaven.

Without the law, there is no saftey or freedom!

In the old testament the “thou shalt not” was made to protect them

After Christ came to reveal God "the “thou shalt not” was changed into a prohescy of what the new believerswho came to understand who God was and how much He loved us
:"thou shalt not " …thou shalt not want to do these things willfully…not because some law tells you to.
 
FireFromHeaven said:
Ok thank you all for clearing that up. However if the law is not to pass away then why do we only follow the moral part? Also if the law came from God why does it not have the power to save?
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Because only God has the power to save. IOW, obedience to God’s law is not the same as obedience of-or subjugation to-God. We need communion with God first of all, in order to maintain authentic obedience, rather than merely, first of all, trying to obey, trying to prove my holiness IOW, on my own. Man’s righteousness is as filthy rags, as scripture puts it in Is 64:6. We need the righteousness of God as per Phil 3:9, not our own, which is really only a false righteousness anyway, as man never had the right to determine morality for himself-that is God’s prerogative, alone. So keeping in mind that mans separation from God is both the essence of his injustice and the cause of his further injustice/sin, the New Covenant prophesy in Jer 31 tells us how God intends to accomplish true righteousness in man:

“This is the covenant I will make with the people of Israel
after that time,” declares the Lord.
“I will put my law in their minds
and write it on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
34 No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest,”
declares the Lord.
“For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.” Jer 31:33-34

Man needs God; apart from Him we can do nothing, to paraphrase John 15:5. Man needs communion with God, His life/Spirit dwelling within. We don’t need to obey the law in order to be at one with God, rather we need to be at one with God in order to obey the Law, the right way. This is the purpose of the Atonement, this is why Jesus needed to come, to reconcile man with God first of all; our righteousness-our attempts to obey the law- are merely a pretense of holiness at best without grace,without God.
 
FireFromHeaven said:
Ok thank you all for clearing that up. However if the law is not to pass away then why do we only follow the moral part? Also if the law came from God why does it not have the power to save?
Click to expand...
Those parts of the law were the Levitical laws that dealt with diet, the tabernacle, etc. were fulfilled in Christ–indeed the whole of the Law and prophets were fulfilled in Christ. For example, Christ is the living Tabernacle of God, so we don’t need laws to protect a manmade tabernacle. Christ has told us that what comes out of a man is more important than what goes into his stomach.

St. Paul wrote that our salvation isn’t determined by what we eat or drink, but by faith in Christ. Christ’s law is the law of love. St. Augustine put it more succinctly than anyone else when he stated, “Love God and do what you will.” Meaning that if we love God will want to do his will not be forced to do his will by keeping laws.

A law being fulfilled is not a negation of it, but a completion of it. For example, when a couple is engaged, they are still to be continent and not be sexually involved. But, once they are married that law is fulfilled/completed because to be married is to be sexually active with one’s spouse. The two laws don’t cancel each other out, they are merely different laws for different parts of our lives. When Christ came he was the Spouse who fulfilled Israel’s hopes, so the old law no longer applies. We are wedded to Christ not to any law.
 
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