The limit of Muslim love

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ddarko said:
That’s very comforting to hear. What about these,

“slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them” (Q 9:5)
if you read the vesre in its context , you will not need anyone to interpret it
you forget the first part of this verse
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I see you have permission and privilege to correspond once again.😃 Is that conditional?😃

What a world? The farther we travel down the path of the modern world, the futher we see we have to go. Its a perpetual task of man to leave the barbaric behind. One we fail at constantly. Two steps foward and one back. Yet on we go.

Glad to see you are able to reach out and touch the World again elwill. Hope all is safe with you and yours.

God Bless, GT
 
Aydan said:
yeah I’m well aware of the moon god argument and I’ve read the works of both men I just finished two of Spencer’s books however Arabic Christians use the word Allah so Christians also use the same word to my knowledge. For me personally I prefer to say God in Turkish and not English so I use Allah.
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Thats interesting. The Arab Christians I know personally in an Arab country, Always use the term God when I am conversing with him. They only talk in terms of Allah, when they are Talking about the Muslims and their religion. My question is, why do you feel the need to use a term foreign to Christianity at large? Are you trying to make some kind of statement?🤷 Just curious.
 
Benidict:

What do the Iraqi Christians call God when they speak in their native language…??
 
jakasaki said:
Benidict:

What do the Iraqi Christians call God when they speak in their native language…??
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That is a good question. I will have to ask them. From what I can gather, there is no other word for God in the Arabic tongue other than Allah. I did not mean to be critical of the poster i answered. I just wanted to know, why he would want to use a term for God that is not commonly used where he is from. I could be wrong, but it seems he is trying to make a statement. :confused:
 
benidict said:
Thats interesting. The Arab Christians I know personally in an Arab country, Always use the term God when I am conversing with him. They only talk in terms of Allah, when they are Talking about the Muslims and their religion. My question is, why do you feel the need to use a term foreign to Christianity at large? Are you trying to make some kind of statement?🤷 Just curious.
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no I’m not trying to make any statement at all as I said earlier in the thread I don’t like to use the word God in English I prefer to say God in Turkish. In Turkish there are only two options for the word God Allah and . Tanrı. I refuse to use .Tanrı because although it can be used to invoke the name of God the Father it is also used to refer to the gods of Greek mythology and other gods such as Hinduism. To my knowledge Allah always refers to the one true God and is never used to refer to multiple gods. Therefore I choose to use the word Allah. Would you ask someone a similar question if they preferred to warship God in Spanish? Just because somebody chooses to use words from another language does not mean they are trying to make a statement about something.
 
Aydan said:
no I’m not trying to make any statement at all as I said earlier in the thread I don’t like to use the word God in English I prefer to say God in Turkish. In Turkish there are only two options for the word God Allah and . Tanrı. I refuse to use .Tanrı because although it can be used to invoke the name of God the Father it is also used to refer to the gods of Greek mythology and other gods such as Hinduism. To my knowledge Allah always refers to the one true God and is never used to refer to multiple gods. Therefore I choose to use the word Allah. Would you ask someone a similar question if they preferred to warship God in Spanish? Just because somebody chooses to use words from another language does not mean they are trying to make a statement about something.
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No. But people of Hispanic descent did not ram a plane into the world trade center screaming Allah Akbar either. So for an American citizen to use this term for God is just unusual to me. 🤷
 
benidict said:
That is a good question. I will have to ask them. From what I can gather, there is no other word for God in the Arabic tongue other than Allah. I did not mean to be critical of the poster i answered. I just wanted to know, why he would want to use a term for God that is not commonly used where he is from. I could be wrong, but it seems he is trying to make a statement. :confused:
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I speak Turkish I don’t know how to make it any more clear then that I even speak Turkish during mass on a regular basis so how is that making a statement I have every right to worship in my second language just as the Arabic Christians have the right to say God in English. Why then do I not have the same right to say God in Turkish?:mad::confused:
 
ADouglass said:
Surah 58 22. “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.” source: islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/58.htm

I not only resist “Allah and His Messenger,” I fully reject both “Allah” and “His Messenger.” Therefore, Muslims will not love me. I can therefore expect either indifference or hate. Or am I missing something?
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Not all Muslims interpret everything in the Quran literally. A lot of it is read in conjunction with another of their holy books, the Hadith, which are other statements and deeds of Muhammad. I am friends with several Muslims. One of them even once saw a keychain I have of Our Lady of Grace and told me it was beautiful.
It seems to me that this passage is saying that Muslims will be able to recognize the end of days because people will reject Muslim teaching and will love only people who reject it, even if the people who were Muslims were their relatives and friends. It is similar to how we believe we will be able to recognize the last days because people will follow an anti-christ instead of Christ and the followers of Christ will be persecuted. I think you are reading a bit much into this.
Similar objections have been raised about Christ’s statement, “Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household.” Of course the meaning is not literal. Christ is the Prince of Peace, not of discord. He is not saying that he actually wants us to be divided over him, but that his gospel will be a source of division. However, if we just gloss over it, we might come to the assumption that Christ was hoping to be a source of discord.
Further, not only do you not know how Muslims interpret this passage, but you also do not know what the original Arabic phrase was and what it meant in Muhammad’s time. You are basing this on an English translation that might be faulty.
 
Aydan said:
I speak Turkish I don’t know how to make it any more clear then that I even speak Turkish during mass on a regular basis so how is that making a statement I have every right to worship in my second language just as the Arabic Christians have the right to say God in English. Why then do I not have the same right to say God in Turkish?:mad::confused:
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You have the right. Call him anything you want in whatever language you want. I was just asking a question as to why being an American, you would use this term. I was just curious is all. Guess I just dont share a love for the name of Allah you do. It simply brings up a negative image to me. Feel free to call God any name you want. 🤷
 
benidict said:
No. But people of Hispanic descent did not ram a plane into the world trade center screaming Allah Akbar either. So for an American citizen to use this term for God is just unusual to me. 🤷
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Blood was shed, however, during the Mexican revolution by people (on both sides) shouting, “Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!” I suppose that (following your logic) Mexican and Spanish citizens shouldn’t use that term, should they?
 
ClamDigger said:
Blood was shed, however, during the Mexican revolution by people (on both sides) shouting, “Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!” I suppose that (following your logic) Mexican and Spanish citizens shouldn’t use that term, should they?
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:coffeeread: Did I say that Arabs should not use the name of God in their own language? No I did not. I simply find it unusual for someone to use a term foreign to their culture. I was simply asking a question of something I found interesting. I really dont care what you call Him. Not to mention, the phrase you used, has to do with the Blessed Mother, not God. :rolleyes:
 
ClamDigger said:
Blood was shed, however, during the Mexican revolution by people (on both sides) shouting, “Viva la Virgen de Guadalupe!” I suppose that (following your logic) Mexican and Spanish citizens shouldn’t use that term, should they?
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:coffeeread:apparently you and the other poster missed what I was trying to ask, and you are both overly sensitive. Now we are going to bring the Blessed Mother into this? I fail to see the relevancy of your post. and I have a policy about getting into arguments with fellow Catholics, at least im not going to do this in front of non-Catholics. if you want to continue with this. P.M. me. 😉
 
benidict said:
:coffeeread:apparently you and the other poster missed what I was trying to ask, and you are both overly sensitive. Now we are going to bring the Blessed Mother into this? I fail to see the relevancy of your post. and I have a policy about getting into arguments with fellow Catholics, at least im not going to do this in front of non-Catholics. if you want to continue with this. P.M. me. 😉
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Whatever. That’s fine. Let’s just drop it.
 
benidict said:
:coffeeread: Did I say that Arabs should not use the name of God in their own language? No I did not. I simply find it unusual for someone to use a term foreign to their culture. I was simply asking a question of something I found interesting. I really dont care what you call Him.
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It is a part of his culture, though. He is Turkish. And obviously you do care what people call God (at least in the United States) or you wouldn’t have questioned his use of the word “Allah”.
benidict said:
Not to mention, the phrase you used, has to do with the Blessed Mother, not God. :rolleyes:
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They are both cultural religious phrases that have been used to incite violence. That is the point I was trying to make. 😉
 
ClamDigger said:
It is a part of his culture, though. He is Turkish. And obviously you do care what people call God (at least in the United States) or you wouldn’t have questioned his use of the word “Allah”.

They are both cultural religious phrases that have been used in the name of violence. That is the point I was trying to make. :rolleyes:
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actually I’m not Turkish. Turkish is my second language. I just love to pray in Turkish because I think it’s a beautiful way to glorify God since he has given me the privilege of speaking Turkish. So yes I am an American citizen he is right but I’m a woman:) I still don’t know why it is such a problem for me to use it especially after I have proven that Arabic speaking Catholics use it and yet he objects to me using it because I’m American and I speak Turkish. Then he implies that if an American uses Allah they must be sympathetic to the terrorists on 9/11? :mad:
 
Aydan said:
actually I’m not Turkish. Turkish is my second language. I just love to pray in Turkish because I think it’s a beautiful way to glorify God since he has given me the privilege of speaking Turkish. So yes I am an American citizen he is right but I’m a woman:) I still don’t know why it is such a problem for me to use it especially after I have proven that Arabic speaking Catholics use it and yet he objects to me using it because I’m American and I speak Turkish. Then he implies that if an American uses Allah they must be sympathetic to the terrorists on 9/11? :mad:
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I think he just doesn’t know you, Aydan, doesn’t know about your unusual interests. I don’t think he meant to antagonize you or anyone else.
 
Aydan said:
actually I’m not Turkish. Turkish is my second language. I just love to pray in Turkish because I think it’s a beautiful way to glorify God since he has given me the privilege of speaking Turkish. So yes I am an American citizen he is right but I’m a woman:)
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Oh I’m sorry! I suppose I should’ve read more before jumping in! 😊 I’m just so done with Americans acting like American culture isn’t built on cultural (including linguistic and religious) diversity. It’s absolutely ridiculous.
Aydan said:
I still don’t know why it is such a problem for me to use it especially after I have proven that Arabic speaking Catholics use it and yet he objects to me using it because I’m American and I speak Turkish. Then he implies that if an American uses Allah they must be sympathetic to the terrorists on 9/11? :mad:
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Exactly. I use Latin in my prayers. That doesn’t mean that I am sympathetic toward the Romans that crucified Christ. :rolleyes:
 
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