The limit of Muslim love

[ClamDigger]

actually I’m not Turkish. Turkish is my second language. I just love to pray in Turkish because I think it’s a beautiful way to glorify God since he has given me the privilege of speaking Turkish. So yes I am an American citizen he is right but I’m a woman

Oh I’m sorry! I suppose I should’ve read more before jumping in! I’m just so done with Americans acting like American culture isn’t built on cultural (including linguistic and religious) diversity. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

I still don’t know why it is such a problem for me to use it especially after I have proven that Arabic speaking Catholics use it and yet he objects to me using it because I’m American and I speak Turkish. Then he implies that if an American uses Allah they must be sympathetic to the terrorists on 9/11?

Exactly. I use Latin in my prayers. That doesn’t mean that I am sympathetic toward the Romans that crucified Christ. I also used to use French in my prayers because it helped me to learn the language better. That doesn’t mean that I condone what happened to Catholics during the French Revolution.

 

[Aydan]

it’s okay a lot of people think I’m a guy it happens all the time because I chose such an unusual Turkish name. I think it’s important that we have different languages after all the Bible says we have all different talents. The Turkish people I’ve met or worked with tutoring them in English have made me a better person.

Oh I’m sorry! I suppose I should’ve read more before jumping in! I’m just so done with Americans acting like American culture isn’t built on cultural (including linguistic and religious) diversity. It’s absolutely ridiculous.

Exactly. I use Latin in my prayers. That doesn’t mean that I am sympathetic toward the Romans that crucified Christ. I also used to use French in my prayers because it helped me to learn the language better. That doesn’t mean that I condone what happened to Catholics during the French Revolution.

 

[Aydan]

The same is true for me the Muslims I know are some of the most nicest most loving people I’ve ever met. It is true that most Muslims would never raise a hand against Christians or other non-Christians and I’ve never ever been pressured to convert to Islam either and they know I’m Christian it doesn’t matter. It is sad that these terrorists who commit these acts in the name of Islam drowned out all the love shown by most Muslims and I hope that it is the Muslims will win out and we need to support these people as well. So I think we are on the same page because I totally agree with you.
I’m a sister by the way

My brother Aydan, I concur with you. I am not aware of any other religion that is so prepared to be so militant. Yet, I know so many Muslims and they would not even think of raising a hand against Christians or anyone else. Those parts of Islam and the Qur’an seem to have been put away or understood in a new light…that it is unacceptable.

As I say that I also realize that I suspect they could be pushed into fighting for their survival or the survival of Islam, but I don’t view that position in the same light.

I live among Muslims and will do so for many years. I have had no one pressure me to convert or even question my Christianity. It has been interesting in that I have been asked if I was Muslim because I treat people so well, but it is at those times that I kindly tell them that I am a disciple of Jesus Christ, a Christian. This has always be a surprise for them.

We need more of these types of surprises among the Muslim world. I humbly pray that I will be always be humble enough, to remain in a state of penance, that the Holy Spirit will work through me to touch the lives of others. God bless,

 

[ClamDigger]

it’s okay a lot of people think I’m a guy it happens all the time because I chose such an unusual Turkish name. I think it’s important that we have different languages after all the Bible says we have all different talents. The Turkish people I’ve met or worked with tutoring them in English have made me a better person.

Exactly! “There is neither Jew nor Greek: there is neither bond nor free: there is neither male nor female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus.”

 

[ADouglass]

Not all Muslims interpret everything in the Quran literally. A lot of it is read in conjunction with another of their holy books, the Hadith, which are other statements and deeds of Muhammad. I am friends with several Muslims. One of them even once saw a keychain I have of Our Lady of Grace and told me it was beautiful.
It seems to me that this passage is saying that Muslims will be able to recognize the end of days because people will reject Muslim teaching and will love only people who reject it, even if the people who were Muslims were their relatives and friends. It is similar to how we believe we will be able to recognize the last days because people will follow an anti-christ instead of Christ and the followers of Christ will be persecuted. I think you are reading a bit much into this.
Similar objections have been raised about Christ’s statement, “Do not think that I came to send peace upon earth: I came not to send peace, but the sword. For I came to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And as a man’s enemies shall be they of his own household.” Of course the meaning is not literal. Christ is the Prince of Peace, not of discord. He is not saying that he actually wants us to be divided over him, but that his gospel will be a source of division. However, if we just gloss over it, we might come to the assumption that Christ was hoping to be a source of discord.
Further, not only do you not know how Muslims interpret this passage, but you also do not know what the original Arabic phrase was and what it meant in Muhammad’s time. You are basing this on an English translation that might be faulty.

The point that some muslims don’t follow their religion has already been made.

 

[ADouglass]

Also, in regards to my last post. I think it is unwise to base one’s understanding of a religion on how some of the peope in that religion act. My mormon friend inteviewed Catholic priests and laypeople alike, yet he had some very big misunderstandings. I asked him to support his ideas about Catholicism with the Bible or official Church statements. He admitted that he actually knows little about our doctrine, yet he still thinks it’s best to ask the “religious” to get the best perspective.

Also, in regards to my last post. Reading the actual Quran would be very helpful to get a good perspective on this matter. Also, look up Sharia law. The countries who follow it the closest are also the ones where non-muslims are persecuted the most.

 

[ADouglass]

Also, read the entire Quran, deny that it is from a prophet of God, and then see if a muslim will still be friends with you. They might still be, but it would be taking their lives into their own hands, in other words they would only have themselves as guardians, God would stop guarding them. See Surah 3:28 for how they might justify being friends with you.

 

[ADouglass]

In fact, it would be best to read all of surah 3 and ask a muslim to tell you what he thinks of it.

 

[ClamDigger]

The point that some muslims don’t follow their religion has already been made.

Where did I say that my Muslim friends are not fully following their religion by not being intolerant?

 

[ClamDigger]

Also, in regards to my last post. I think it is unwise to base one’s understanding of a religion on how some of the peope in that religion act. My mormon friend inteviewed Catholic priests and laypeople alike, yet he had some very big misunderstandings. I asked him to support his ideas about Catholicism with the Bible or official Church statements. He admitted that he actually knows little about our doctrine, yet he still thinks it’s best to ask the “religious” to get the best perspective.

I don’t understand what a Mormon not knowing about the Catholic Church has to do with a Muslim being tolerant of Catholics and being friends with them???

Also, in regards to my last post. Reading the actual Quran would be very helpful to get a good perspective on this matter.

I’ve only read Surah Maryam in order to compare it to the infancy narratives in the Gospels and the apocryphal infancy gospels. I’m not really interested in reading a book just to say it’s false.

Also, look up Sharia law. The countries who follow it the closest are also the ones where non-muslims are persecuted the most.

Countries that strictly followed the Bible used to persecute people they deemed “not Christian” based on their own skewed interpretations of Biblical law. That doesn’t mean that we, as regular Christians, condone or find any evidence for the things that were done based on one person’s literal reading of Biblical laws out of context.

 

[ClamDigger]

Also, read the entire Quran, deny that it is from a prophet of God, and then see if a muslim will still be friends with you. They might still be, but it would be taking their lives into their own hands, in other words they would only have themselves as guardians, God would stop guarding them. See Surah 3:28 for how they might justify being friends with you.

Ummm… I’m pretty sure they already know that I deny the Quran since I’m not a Muslim. Not to mention it says in the very surah you mention that some things that Allah says are allegorical.

 

[m8g8]

I think it’s difficult to know what true love is when you’re not brought up to pray for those who persecute you.

 

[ADouglass]

Ummm… I’m pretty sure they already know that I deny the Quran since I’m not a Muslim. Not to mention it says in the very surah you mention that some things that Allah says are allegorical.

So, it was allegorical that muslims aren’t to take people who aren’t muslims as friends (or allies in some translations). Oh, I get it now. Also, you must have read 3:118

“O you who have believed, do not take as intimates those other than yourselves, for they will not spare you [any] ruin. They wish you would have hardship. Hatred has already appeared from their mouths, and what their breasts conceal is greater. We have certainly made clear to you the signs, if you will use reason.”

Do you think this was allegorical, in the sense that the specfic meanings of the words aren’t needed, and indeed this passage means something else. If so, what does it mean?

 

[ADouglass]

Also, see 3:178

“And let not those who disbelieve ever think that [because] We extend their time [of enjoyment] it is better for them. We only extend it for them so that they may increase in sin, and for them is a humiliating punishment”

You also notice that a common theme in surah 3 is the idea that Allah tests his followers by asking them to risk their lives. This is obviously to be taken literally since this is how Islam started, when you take it figuratively it loses value because it loses the test of physical death.

 

[Aydan]

Where did I say that my Muslim friends are not fully following their religion by not being intolerant?

Actually I think he might be referring to something I said because I made a similar point earlier in the thread. I pointed out that those who wage war in the name of Islam argued that peaceful Muslims are not following the true Islam.

 

[ADouglass]

In regards to when Jesus said that we will have enemies in our own household. Notice that we are commanded to love our enemies as well.

 

[benidict]

I think he just doesn’t know you, Aydan, doesn’t know about your unusual interests. I don’t think he meant to antagonize you or anyone else.

Thank you. If I would have known what a fire fight I was going to start, I never would have asked. I cannot argue with fellow Catholics any way. Its a bad witness to our protestant friends. Peace

 

[Aydan]

In regards to when Jesus said that we will have enemies in our own household. Notice that we are commanded to love our enemies as well.

okay here’s the thing I noticed earlier you had said reading the Quran did not really help you understand it that is because it is almost impossible to understand without understanding the sayings of the Islamic prophet Mohammed called the Hadith these are what give meaning to the Quran is very similar to what the catechism is to Catholics. If you want to understand the Quran in a Christian context I recommend David Wood and acts 17 apologetics. It is a Protestant organization designed to reach Muslims and they have very detailed information about the meaning of the Quran.
acts17.net/

 

[benidict]

In regards to when Jesus said that we will have enemies in our own household. Notice that we are commanded to love our enemies as well.

Hello my friend. Please clarify this remark. I think I understand what you are saying, but I want to be sure I have it right. Peace

 

[tomarin]

Thank you. If I would have known what a fire fight I was going to start, I never would have asked. I cannot argue with fellow Catholics any way. Its a bad witness to our protestant friends. Peace

You’re welcome.