The limit of Muslim love

[ADouglass]

Surah 58 22. “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.” source: islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/58.htm

I not only resist “Allah and His Messenger,” I fully reject both “Allah” and “His Messenger.” Therefore, Muslims will not love me. I can therefore expect either indifference or hate. Or am I missing something?

 

[Aydan]

Surah 58 22. “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.” source: islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/58.htm

I not only resist “Allah and His Messenger,” I fully reject both “Allah” and “His Messenger.” Therefore, Muslims will not love me. I can therefore expect either indifference or hate. Or am I missing something?

no you’re not although I do have to point out that Arabic speaking Christians use Allah to refer to God and I do as well. If you want more information about the Quran and more importantly its implications for ChristiansI recommend you look up Robert Spencer he has several good books on the issue.

 

[ADouglass]

no you’re not although I do have to point out that Arabic speaking Christians use Allah to refer to God and I do as well. If you want more information about the Quran and more importantly its implications for ChristiansI recommend you look up Robert Spencer he has several good books on the issue.

I stand corrected. Thank you for the info.

 

[Aydan]

I stand corrected. Thank you for the info.

well think of it like this when a Christian says Allah we mean something totally different for us it means God in a loving since because Jesus tells us to love our neighbor. When a Muslim says Allah they are taught not to love unbelievers and that means anyone who is not Muslim. So in a way we are rejecting something but it is not Allah we are rejecting it is Islam and its teachings. So you were right you just have to reject Islam. It all depends on who is saying Allah.

 

[ddarko]

This might also help

What we have in common and Catholic view towards Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

What we find problematic in Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210bt.asp

God Bless

 

[Aydan]

This might also help

What we have in common and Catholic view towards Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

What we find problematic in Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210bt.asp

God Bless

I found both these articles very informative it really helped me to understand what the catechism says about Islam. As I was reading through the articles I could not help but notice the contradictions between Catholicism and Islam. As Catholics we are told not to judge and the love everyone but Islam is just the opposite the Islamic prophet Mohammed told his followers not to greet Jews and Christians with peace unless they say it first. Muslims are even taught not to pray for Jews and Christians after they die because they believe we’re going straight to hell. Just like Catholicism they leave the door open and say that some Jews and Christians might be saved** if they have not heard about Islamic teachings but for someone like me who has studied Islam and still reject it there’s no hope for me because according to Muslims I’m going straight to hell because I know about Islam and have rejected it.** These two articles made the point that I was trying to make with my Allah arguments earlier but these articles do a better job. Thank you for posting them.

 

[ADouglass]

I don’t want to start another thread, but I thought this might be of interest to those viewing this current thread. We have available the Catholic teachings about Islam. I used to be mormon, so I looked up their teachings. What I found amazes me.

"As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad’s leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was “descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose” to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult “to get an honest history” written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad’s teachings, asserting that “upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations.” 9 " source: lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng#footnote9

Bam! I’m glad I left that religion.

 

[Aydan]

well that’s shocking man I’m really happy to be Catholic and I’m glad you left also!

I don’t want to start another thread, but I thought this might be of interest to those viewing this current thread. We have available the Catholic teachings about Islam. I used to be mormon, so I looked up their teachings. What I found amazes me.

"As early as 1855, at a time when Christian literature generally ridiculed Muhammad as the Antichrist and the archenemy of Western civilization, Elders George A. Smith (1817–75) and Parley P. Pratt (1807–57) of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles delivered lengthy sermons demonstrating an accurate and balanced understanding of Islamic history and speaking highly of Muhammad’s leadership. Elder Smith observed that Muhammad was “descended from Abraham and was no doubt raised up by God on purpose” to preach against idolatry. He sympathized with the plight of Muslims, who, like Latter-day Saints, found it difficult “to get an honest history” written about them. Speaking next, Elder Pratt went on to express his admiration for Muhammad’s teachings, asserting that “upon the whole, … [Muslims] have better morals and better institutions than many Christian nations.” 9 " source: lds.org/ensign/2000/08/a-latter-day-saint-perspective-on-muhammad?lang=eng#footnote9

Bam! I’m glad I left that religion.

 

[m8g8]

I think it depends on their upbringing.

My best friend is a Muslim and he’s the most selfless person I’ve ever met. He doesn’t realise this though. His Dad went to a Christian school.

On the other hand… My sister converted to Islam and she’s even more hateful than she ever has been. She ‘liked’ a picture on Facebook of a Muslim shooting an American soldier and asked why anyone would want to be friends with an atheist.

I really think it depends on who has brought them up in their faith. Also, my sister has always been angry, so I guess she finally found something that suits her views. Sometimes she upsets my little sister by unChristian things, such as ‘you should think you’re better than others’ etc…

I don’t know which is the correct interpretation, but the second one is sick and has no place in the world.

 

[ADouglass]

The more muslim you are, the more intolerant you are of non-muslims.

warriorsfortruth.com/christians%20in%20muslim%20countries.html

americanthinker.com/blog/2010/12/sweden_deporting_christian_ref.html

israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-attacks-on-christians-in-muslim.html

chick.com/bc/2001/muslim.asp

And then we have misinformation from muslims who say no, we don’t do that, but they most certainly do.

examiner.com/islam-in-national/5-things-every-christian-should-know-about-islam?cid=parsely#parsely

The title of the article should be: Five lies that a muslim will tell a christian.

 

[Aydan]

The more muslim you are, the more intolerant you are of non-muslims.

warriorsfortruth.com/christians%20in%20muslim%20countries.html

americanthinker.com/blog/2010/12/sweden_deporting_christian_ref.html

israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-attacks-on-christians-in-muslim.html

chick.com/bc/2001/muslim.asp

And then we have misinformation from muslims who say no, we don’t do that, but they most certainly do.

examiner.com/islam-in-national/5-things-every-christian-should-know-about-islam?cid=parsely#parsely

The title of the article should be: Five lies that a muslim will tell a christian.

All of these things are true there are many Muslims who take the Quran literally but there are Muslims who are trying to reform Islam such as Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser,
aifdemocracy.org/about/

 

[ddarko]

The more muslim you are, the more intolerant you are of non-muslims.

warriorsfortruth.com/christians%20in%20muslim%20countries.html

americanthinker.com/blog/2010/12/sweden_deporting_christian_ref.html

israelmatzav.blogspot.com/2011/01/why-attacks-on-christians-in-muslim.html

chick.com/bc/2001/muslim.asp

And then we have misinformation from muslims who say no, we don’t do that, but they most certainly do.

examiner.com/islam-in-national/5-things-every-christian-should-know-about-islam?cid=parsely#parsely

The title of the article should be: Five lies that a Muslim will tell a christian.

I think you are right. As I read in the links I provided above, Islam is in its true form is not a religion of peace. The ones who we see as all nice and don’t care types about other religions are mostly the ‘liberal progressive’ Muslims. The ones who are hardcore about their faith do realize and in-fact practice some crazy things. Case in point, those in Pakistan and defenders of the blasphemy law for an example.

God Bless

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I think it depends on their upbringing.

My best friend is a Muslim and he’s the most selfless person I’ve ever met. He doesn’t realise this though. His Dad went to a Christian school.

On the other hand… My sister converted to Islam and she’s even more hateful than she ever has been. She ‘liked’ a picture on Facebook of a Muslim shooting an American soldier and asked why anyone would want to be friends with an atheist.

I really think it depends on who has brought them up in their faith. Also, my sister has always been angry, so I guess she finally found something that suits her views. Sometimes she upsets my little sister by unChristian things, such as ‘you should think you’re better than others’ etc…

I don’t know which is the correct interpretation, but the second one is sick and has no place in the world.

I’m So Sorry Your Sister Is Like That. I Would Still Love Her But “Pray Without Ceasing” For Her.

 

[Aydan]

I think you are right. As I read in the links I provided above, Islam is in its true form is not a religion of peace. The ones who we see as all nice and don’t care types about other religions are mostly the ‘liberal progressive’ Muslims. The ones who are hardcore about their faith do realize and in-fact practice some crazy things. Case in point, those in Pakistan and defenders of the blasphemy law for an example.

God Bless

I agree I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier about how a person is brought up in the faith I have a Turkish friend and although he considers me a Polytheist he doesn’t think that he can’t be friends with me or that Christians or other non-Muslims should be killed. The thing that makes it so difficult is that Muslims believe that the Quran is the verbatim word of God preserved perfectly and it cannot be changed. That is why it’s taken so literally to make matters even more complicated it says that the Jews and Christians will not be happy until they convert you to their religion so any time we try to talk to a Muslim that’s what they think and also associating partners with God is the one unforgivable sin in Islam and they say Christians commit this sin by worshiping Jesus as the son of God. That’s what makes any type of reform so difficult in Islam.

 

[OrdinaryMelkite]

I agree I think it goes back to what you were saying earlier about how a person is brought up in the faith I have a Turkish friend and although he considers me a Polytheist he doesn’t think that he can’t be friends with me or that Christians or other non-Muslims should be killed. The thing that makes it so difficult is that Muslims believe that the Quran is the verbatim word of God preserved perfectly and it cannot be changed. That is why it’s taken so literally to make matters even more complicated it says that the Jews and Christians will not be happy until they convert you to their religion so any time we try to talk to a Muslim that’s what they think and also associating partners with God is the one unforgivable sin in Islam and they say Christians commit this sin by worshiping Jesus as the son of God. That’s what makes any type of reform so difficult in Islam.

Unfortunately, Under The Tenets of Islam, Your Friend Would NOT Be Considred A “True, Devout Muslim” By Other Devout Muslims And Would Be Dangerously Close To Being Branded An Apostate.

At The End Of Time When The Mahdi (Islamic Messiah) Comes, It Is The Incumbent Duty Of Every Muslim To Help The Mahdi Forcibly Cnvert All Unbelievers To The “True Faith” By The Sword. Those That Do Not Accet Islam Will Be Summarily Killed.

As An Ex-Muslim Convert to Christianity Has Said------
“What Part Of “Kill” Doen’t One Understand?”

 

[JeanMichel]

I found both these articles very informative it really helped me to understand what the catechism says about Islam. As I was reading through the articles I could not help but notice the contradictions between Catholicism and Islam. As Catholics we are told not to judge and the love everyone but Islam is just the opposite the Islamic prophet Mohammed told his followers not to greet Jews and Christians with peace unless they say it first. Muslims are even taught not to pray for Jews and Christians after they die because they believe we’re going straight to hell. Just like Catholicism they leave the door open and say that some Jews and Christians might be saved** if they have not heard about Islamic teachings but for someone like me who has studied Islam and still reject it there’s no hope for me because according to Muslims I’m going straight to hell because I know about Islam and have rejected it.** These two articles made the point that I was trying to make with my Allah arguments earlier but these articles do a better job. Thank you for posting them.

I am curious, do you think Muslims are going straight to hell? If so, what is the difference? It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

My purpose is not to offend, but to help fellow Christians to evangelize in a more effective manner. Seldom do we catch the fly with a bowl of vinegar. When we speak in love, with patience, and full of kindness the walls come down and hearts soften and the Spirit is felt more easily.

Living in a Muslim country I have never felt rejected, unloved, or abused by my neighbors. They invite me to Muslim holidays, they treat as family, and are consistently kind. I can find no fault in their behavior. The things you have stated or brought up don’t seem to be present in their behavior.

 

[Aydan]

Unfortunately, Under The Tenets of Islam, Your Friend Would NOT Be Considred A “True, Devout Muslim” By Other Devout Muslims And Would Be Dangerously Close To Being Branded An Apostate.

At The End Of Time When The Mahdi (Islamic Messiah) Comes, It Is The Incumbent Duty Of Every Muslim To Help The Mahdi Forcibly Cnvert All Unbelievers To The “True Faith” By The Sword. Those That Do Not Accet Islam Will Be Summarily Killed.

As An Ex-Muslim Convert to Christianity Has Said------
“What Part Of “Kill” Doen’t One Understand?”

unfortunately I know that all too well I can’t tell you how many times I’ve heard other Muslims say Turks are not really Muslims. I’m sure in someplace such as Iran my friend would be killed for just being friends with me. I know that quote from Mr. Shoebot he is always straight in to the point. Nevertheless I still hope that people like Dr. M. Zuhdi Jasser win the battle. Yeah the whole mahdi thing chills me to the core.

 

[ddarko]

I am curious, do you think Muslims are going straight to hell? If so, what is the difference? It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

My purpose is not to offend, but to help fellow Christians to evangelize in a more effective manner. Seldom do we catch the fly with a bowl of vinegar. When we speak in love, with patience, and full of kindness the walls come down and hearts soften and the Spirit is felt more easily.

Living in a Muslim country I have never felt rejected, unloved, or abused by my neighbors. They invite me to Muslim holidays, they treat as family, and are consistently kind. I can find no fault in their behavior. The things you have stated or brought up don’t seem to be present in their behavior.

Do you live in Dubai or Bahrain, or somewhere like the outskirts of Pakistan?

Because some “muslim” countries are indeed like “Catholic” countries. They are pretty liberal with respect to their own teachings.

As for teachings of the RC on Muslims, I made a post earlier on this thread about that. It was my first post on this thread and has some links which will answer your question.

EDIT:

Here it is

What we have in common and Catholic view towards Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0207bt.asp

What we find problematic in Islam:-
catholic.com/thisrock/2002/0210bt.asp

God Bless

 

[bluelake]

Surah 58 22. “Thou wilt not find any people who believe in Allah and the Last Day, loving those who resist Allah and His Messenger, even though they were their fathers or their sons, or their brothers, or their kindred. For such He has written Faith in their hearts, and strengthened them with a spirit from Himself. And He will admit them to Gardens beneath which Rivers flow, to dwell therein (for ever). Allah will be well pleased with them, and they with Him. They are the Party of Allah. Truly it is the Party of Allah that will achieve Felicity.” source: islamicity.com/mosque/QURAN/58.htm

I not only resist “Allah and His Messenger,” I fully reject both “Allah” and “His Messenger.” Therefore, Muslims will not love me. I can therefore expect either indifference or hate. Or am I missing something?

I don’t think Muslims love anyone who isn’t a Muslim. In fact I was wondering if they have
a law in their country against murder. They kill other Muslims as well.
The brutal treatment of the women is appalling.

Lets pray for them,

bluelake

 

[bluelake]

I am curious, do you think Muslims are going straight to hell? If so, what is the difference? It sounds like the pot calling the kettle black.

My purpose is not to offend, but to help fellow Christians to evangelize in a more effective manner. Seldom do we catch the fly with a bowl of vinegar. When we speak in love, with patience, and full of kindness the walls come down and hearts soften and the Spirit is felt more easily.

Living in a Muslim country I have never felt rejected, unloved, or abused by my neighbors. They invite me to Muslim holidays, they treat as family, and are consistently kind. I can find no fault in their behavior. The things you have stated or brought up don’t seem to be present in their behavior.

The Bible teaches that we should not judge a persons salvation. It also teaches “No one comes to the Father except through me.” (Jesus)

God bless,
bluelake