“Faith” means more than one thing. It means assent to revealed truth, and atheists don’t have it in that sense, but it also means Fidelity to Love, and some atheists do display that kind of Faith.
I am not sure how this can be possible if there are no second chances after death. Please read the section from Pope John Paul II in Lumen Genteum below, particularly the bolded portion.
This is, after all, a discussion forum. If you hold, as you said, that many or even any of the things I’ve said are inconsistent with Catholic teaching, then in accordance with the fact that this is in fact a discussion forum it seems you have two options: Either keep it to yourself, or back it up with facts. Just saying that you hold me to be a heretic but failing to present me with the facts constituting your proof of that, is not acceptable. It is like hitting someone and then running away.I’m sorry, I think you have good intentions in here, but having now caught up on reading the rest of this thread I have to say that many of the things youre saying in here are not consistent with Catholic teaching.
That being said, this thread has gone a little crazy, and I think I’m going to bow out now. Hope you all enjoy the rest of the discussion
I think this is more appropriate to the new thread I will be starting in the Philosophy Forum with the subject, “All you Need is Love.” Watch for it, and kindly join me there. Thanks!
This is completely erroneous theology and not Catholic teaching.
Please show me the catechism reference that says "Good works apart from God Merits Salvation. "
What is the greatest commandment? Love God!
“Since Jesus established the Catholic Church as necessary for salvation, those who knowingly and willingly reject him or his Church cannot be saved. We see this in Jesus’ teaching: “He who is not with me is against me, and he who does not gather with me scatters” (Mt 12:30). Also: “*f he [a sinning brother] refuses to listen even to the church, let him be to you as a Gentile and a tax collector” (Mt 18:17). Paul warned similarly: “As for a man who is factious, after admonishing him once or twice, have nothing more to do with him, knowing that such a person is perverted and sinful; he is self-condemned” (Ti 3:10-11).”
You make a good observation that if this doctrine espoused by Love4all is true, then there is no need for the church. That PROVES it is false.*
There is no such thing as a good work apart from God. God alone is good.
You, too, are invited to confront me on the new thread I have been promising. I’ll get to it. Things I wished to reply to in this thread are still waiting me on other tabs. (Gotta love Firefox)
That is a false assessment of my Teaching.
I am glad to see it shocks you. The Holy Father’s words were shocking in exactly the same way.I believe Mike was responding to Love4All. Afterall he/she even made this statement to one of my posts!!!
Love4All:
:bigyikes: Thank you, but my faith is my greatest treasure. You make it sound as if the Church is irrelevant.
Is there a difference between knowing the Church teaches this and someone actually believing or accepting this teaching? Because I think many people who know about Catholicism know the Church teaches this. But do not embrace the teaching. So they can still attain salvation even though they know this is teaching but do not embrace it?
Is this the Huffington Post version? The original posted on Vatican Radio says this:
Nailed it! Of course not!
I did go outside. I pulled weeds. My back aches now. And I pulled a muscle in my neck. Or something.
Nobody told ya to do that.I did go outside. I pulled weeds. My back aches now. And I pulled a muscle in my neck. Or something.
So it appears that the answer I gave you has gone by the wayside? It looks like you ignored it by not even quoting it. As a result, it seems to me that your main objective is to continue to tell me and others that our lack of trust is the issue. After I’ve been very trusting and very reflective for quite some time, I would argue that you are wrong in your conclusion. But it’s clear to me that my questioning must be “my problem” to others here.
Thank you for your kind words and concern. It’s funny that you mentioned Mary. I plan on reciting at least part of the Rosary. … and I plan on keeping the whole of CAF in those prayers.
Thank you very much. I need them. Bad.
You bet!
Love4All is not banned, but for the rest of the folks out there. We don’t believe that doing good is separate from God. As scripture says, only God is good. So any time someone does good, it is by the Holy Spirit in them, even if that person is an atheist. That doesn’t mean that doing good is more important than believing in God, but by saying that atheists can do good means that God can work through anyone and that because God can work through anyone, salvation is possible for everyone.
Love4all did get banned so we could not continue our conversation. I do agree with what you wrote. I think Love4all had a very liberal view of invincible ignorance since she pretty much claimed that everyone outside the church is invincibly ignorant. I just have a very hard time accepting that, when so many atheists I know don’t just say there is no God, but they wave their fist at him snd denounce him.