The Lost Generation of Catholics

[sir_galahad]

Actually, I don’t know that it should be the template. Mass isn’t about us… it’s about worshipping God according to the rubrics, which is why the Latin Mass is so wonderful… the priest, and to a lesser degree, the people, are always surrendering their will to the rubrics. It’s an act of humility. Traditional worship, whether the Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass, shouldn’t be an option for people who like it. It should be the liturgical norm for the entire Roman rite. I teach at a Catholic high school… pretty centrist. Not as traditional as I’d like but certainly not as liberal as the Catholic high school from which I graduated (with liturgical dancing and the Cheers theme song sung as a hymn). When I reminded students that it was First Friday one day, few of them had any idea what I was talking about. One student even asked me if it was a Catholic devotion. The head of the religion department had to tell students the proper way of receiving Holy Communion… teenagers, most of whom were educated in Catholic schools their entire life. This is the fruit of Mass tailored to the whims of the people and why we have an entire generation of lost Catholics.

 

[love4mary]

No one, and I mean NO ONE is ever Invisible when they attend Holy Mass or do things for the parish outside of Mass.

God see’s it all! He see’s your frustrations and pains. When we offer up to Him all our sufferings, and that includes the sufferings inflicted by those in “power” in parishes, and continue in our efforts to make possitive changes but most importantly,when we Worship Jesus with the purest and cleanest heart we can, when we avail ourselves of the Sacraments, then our rewards will be great in the Kingdom of Heaven. And Heaven see’s IT ALL!!

 

[netmilsmom]

Actually, I don’t know that it should be the template. Mass isn’t about us… it’s about worshipping God according to the rubrics, which is why the Latin Mass is so wonderful… the priest, and to a lesser degree, the people, are always surrendering their will to the rubrics. It’s an act of humility. Traditional worship, whether the Latin Mass or the Novus Ordo Mass, shouldn’t be an option for people who like it. It should be the liturgical norm for the entire Roman rite. I teach at a Catholic high school… pretty centrist. Not as traditional as I’d like but certainly not as liberal as the Catholic high school from which I graduated (with liturgical dancing and the Cheers theme song sung as a hymn). When I reminded students that it was First Friday one day, few of them had any idea what I was talking about. One student even asked me if it was a Catholic devotion. The head of the religion department had to tell students the proper way of receiving Holy Communion… teenagers, most of whom were educated in Catholic schools their entire life. This is the fruit of Mass tailored to the whims of the people and why we have an entire generation of lost Catholics.

Poor Catechisis is no reason to eliminate a certain kind of mass allowed by the Vatican. You think that the TLM should be the norm, but the Vatican thinks differently. As long as a mass is to the rubics and there is a market for it, it should be offered, according to the Vatican.

Go back to post 73 and read about what happened to the children born in time to be taught in the “Spirit of VII” She is correct. We were taught, “Love your neighbor” (or as I called it when I was PAYING for CCD for my kids and they got simple Bible stories and crafts, “God made the flowers and God made the trees”). The biggest problem is that since the 70’s, we’ve gotten Sunday School when we should be getting the CCC.

The innovative masses are not the cause but rather the effect.

 

[decn2b]

I belong to the Lost Generation of Catholics.

Can we have the crucifix back? And the decorations? The high altar? And the confessional where we can indulge in anomnimity? Can we save the band for after Mass - and have the organ returned to its place in the choir loft? (with a choir as well?) And the kneelers - I really enjoy kneeling when I pray and I don’t feel that my self-esteem has been damaged by such a humble posture - If anything it’s kept me from getting too full of my own liberated self importance!

Can we save the socializing for after Mass? Mass is a sacred time - and the half hour before Mass should be a quiet time to reflect and pray and prepare ourselves. Visiting is great fun - after Mass.

I think that there are more then enough Catholic parishes dedicated to teenagers and the folks from the 1960’s. Isn’t it time to move over, make some room for us…and share?

I am tired of being invisible.

Wow you read my mind Completely I am a 39 y/o member of the LOST generation. I personally feel that Us older LOST ones have it worse than you younger LOST ones. I come from Generation X and the church (at least in my diocese) was freshly stripped of all things sacred and the KUMBAYA was in full swing. I had never heard of adoration, was never taught the rosary and confession was somthing that didn’t happen anymore. I have no idea how I escaped it but It has taken me at least a decade to learn my faith. CCD in my childhood was nothing but a mishmash of humanism.

 

[netmilsmom]

Wow you read my mind Completely I am a 39 y/o member of the LOST generation.

I’m just a little older than you.
When I read the link at Post 73, I said from start to finish, “Wow, that’s me too!”

Thank God for Mother Angelica and the internet.

 

[hoosiertoo]

Wow. When you take time out for life, a lot happens around here!

I’ve been Catholic for what, maybe 4 years? And self-identified Christian for maybe another 3 or 4. (I’m 48.)

One of the things that impressed me most from my limited experience in the Church was the wide latitude for expression of the faith of its members.

I sometimes find it hard to follow the conversations around here because I struggle with the shorthand (TLM and NO I figured out pretty quick!) I have been told that I live in a conservative diocese and that my parish is relatively conservative (when I was first contemplating the CC, I talked to a priest who asked if I was sure I didn’t want to look around) and when I ventured out into the wider world of Catholicism, forgive my surprise but all of a sudden I’m a modernist!

I spend an inordinate amount of time on other fora where I am considered a raving wingnut - I’m actually a little “l” liberterian, but that’s beside the point - so it feels a little strange being on the “liberal” side!

BTW - “toe-tag” was an invention of the moment. The “toe tag” section at Assembly Hall (IU) is where the alumni sit, so named by the students, as one might expect, and for obvious reasons. I had seen nothing as catchy as “happy clappy” to use to refer to the “traditionalists.”

Anyway, I would like to emphasize that I belong to no “camp.” I’m neither a traditionalist nor a modernist, I’m just trying to get along in my new faith. Sometime before I’m fitted with my own toe tag, I hope to “get with the program” and see my Father in Heaven, which is the point of this exercise.

I like this forum. I don’t take anything personally (I have rhino skin) and I’ve learned a lot from even the most contentious threads.

With love for all (the greatest is Love!) and malice toward none

Don

 

[netmilsmom]

BTW - “toe-tag” was an invention of the moment. The “toe tag” section at Assembly Hall (IU) is where the alumni sit, so named by the students, as one might expect, and for obvious reasons. I had seen nothing as catchy as “happy clappy” to use to refer to the “traditionalists.”

Don

Well Don, I think that you should be quite proud that in your short time here you have contributed to the vernacular of CAF.
Congrats!

 

[sir_galahad]

Poor Catechisis is no reason to eliminate a certain kind of mass allowed by the Vatican. You think that the TLM should be the norm, but the Vatican thinks differently. As long as a mass is to the rubics and there is a market for it, it should be offered, according to the Vatican.

Go back to post 73 and read about what happened to the children born in time to be taught in the “Spirit of VII” She is correct. We were taught, “Love your neighbor” (or as I called it when I was PAYING for CCD for my kids and they got simple Bible stories and crafts, “God made the flowers and God made the trees”). The biggest problem is that since the 70’s, we’ve gotten Sunday School when we should be getting the CCC.

I think you misunderstood me. I didn’t necessarily say that the Latin Mass should be the norm (although I could see how that could potentially fix certain problems, as well as opening up another can of worms). I meant that traditional-styled worship, whether the new rite or the old, should be the norm. And, yes, I think the liturgical mediocrity that you find in most Catholic parishes is part of the problem’s cause. I’m lucky. I was raised in a very orthodox family in a Novus Ordo parish that was also very orthodox. Many other people in my age bracket weren’t so… they assisted at Masses chockful of liturgical abuses that desensitized them to a sense of the sacred. It’s hard to foster nourishing Catholic spirituality and theology when you’re at a man-centered Mass. Let me give you an example. At my Catholic high school (the one I graduated from… not the one that I’m working at now), at the junior ring ceremony, pictures were projected over the altar of funny scenes from school life right after Holy Communion. The kids were in an uproar at the pictures. Our Lord was physically inside of most of our souls at that point and, rather than lovingly taliking to Him, the junior class was encouraged to laugh and meditate on THEMSELVES. Even if students were taught how to properly conduct themselves after receiving the Blessed Sacrament – and I can assure you that our high school religion classes didn’t emphasize that part – the behavior encouraged during the Mass was in direct opposition to it. The sad thing is that this isn’t an isolated case… an entire generation of Catholics were raised on it and the way that we pray is the way that we believe.

 

[Titus1728]

I feel like I am a part of the “lost generation” that was cut adrift by the church and the “Spirit of Vatican II” crowd in favor of felt banners, folk masses, etc.

My particular pet peeve is modern day church architecture. I am no expert but can someone please explain to me the thinking, or rather lack thereof, that went into designing and building the typical suburban parish church?

What is up with this? First of all there are the doors. You know the type, black metal frame with glass. They look like the kind that belong on a laundramat at the local strip mall down the street.

Then there is the interior which can only be described using one word…BARE. Nothing. Nada. Zeets. No high altar, no reredos, no statuary, no podium, no painting, no stained glass, no mosaics. Just the ubiquitous giant Jesus hanging from the ceiling. Tabernacle? Nowhere to be found. Instead the priest’s chair occupies the center of the sanctuary usually with some kind of fern or green plant in the background. And let’s not forget the carpeted floors.

Carpeted floors! In a church!

The exterior of one church near where I used to live looked like something from a science fiction movie, a dome made out of metal and glass. I am not exaggerating when I say it is hideous to look at.

One church I used to attend looked like a gang of vandals went through it with sledgehammers and crowbars. They stripped the place down to the hooks and wire on the walls. By the grace of God the only thing that escaped their ravages was the Sistine Chapelesque painting on the ceiling.

I did a little research and found pictures of what the church used to look like in the local public library after it was first built in the early 20th century and it was beautiful.

Now it looks like a tornado went through it. It pains me to think of the poor parishoners having to stand and watch as these modern day Huns destroyed what their grandfathers and greatgrandfathers (and mothers) built with their blood, toil, tears and sweat.

Am I alone in this? Please let me know. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

 

[netmilsmom]

I think you misunderstood me. I didn’t necessarily say that the Latin Mass should be the norm (although I could see how that could potentially fix certain problems, as well as opening up another can of worms). I meant that traditional-styled worship, whether the new rite or the old, should be the norm. And, yes, I think the liturgical mediocrity that you find in most Catholic parishes is part of the problem’s cause. I’m lucky. I was raised in a very orthodox family in a Novus Ordo parish that was also very orthodox. Many other people in my age bracket weren’t so… they assisted at Masses chockful of liturgical abuses that desensitized them to a sense of the sacred. It’s hard to foster nourishing Catholic spirituality and theology when you’re at a man-centered Mass. Let me give you an example. At my Catholic high school (the one I graduated from… not the one that I’m working at now), at the junior ring ceremony, pictures were projected over the altar of funny scenes from school life right after Holy Communion. The kids were in an uproar at the pictures. Our Lord was physically inside of most of our souls at that point and, rather than lovingly taliking to Him, the junior class was encouraged to laugh and meditate on THEMSELVES. Even if students were taught how to properly conduct themselves after receiving the Blessed Sacrament – and I can assure you that our high school religion classes didn’t emphasize that part – the behavior encouraged during the Mass was in direct opposition to it. The sad thing is that this isn’t an isolated case… an entire generation of Catholics were raised on it and the way that we pray is the way that we believe.

I agree with you (and that is a horrid story BTW) but right at the moment we have no right to take away those liturgies allowed by the Vatican. It took forty years to get to this point, I’m not sure that it’s going away tomorrow.
I think the Vatican is looking at the inroads the evangelical churches are making in Catholic countries. If they suddenly ban innovative masses, we lose a whole lot of people who have been raised on community in worship.
I’m gonna trust B16 on this one. He has stated that he wants a leaner more devout church. Putting the hammer down to stick to the rubics is the first step, and that IS happening.

And along with that, who is listening to the Vatican on life issues? The traditionalists. In my parish, four children are the norm and ten are not unknown. (I think we have two families with twelve) When you see women like me, with two children, they are looking to adopt, are too old to have any more, or have a history of “female problems”. Good solid Catholics are very open to life and are providing the church will traditional children.

So in the long run, this is just a blip in the timeline of the church. Things will right themselves.

 

[scylla]

I feel like I am a part of the “lost generation” that was cut adrift by the church and the “Spirit of Vatican II” crowd in favor of felt banners, folk masses, etc.

My particular pet peeve is modern day church architecture. I am no expert but can someone please explain to me the thinking, or rather lack thereof, that went into designing and building the typical suburban parish church?

What is up with this? First of all there are the doors. You know the type, black metal frame with glass. They look like the kind that belong on a laundramat at the local strip mall down the street.

Then there is the interior which can only be described using one word…BARE. Nothing. Nada. Zeets. No high altar, no reredos, no statuary, no podium, no painting, no stained glass, no mosaics. Just the ubiquitous giant Jesus hanging from the ceiling. Tabernacle? Nowhere to be found. Instead the priest’s chair occupies the center of the sanctuary usually with some kind of fern or green plant in the background. And let’s not forget the carpeted floors.

Carpeted floors! In a church!

The exterior of one church near where I used to live looked like something from a science fiction movie, a dome made out of metal and glass. I am not exaggerating when I say it is hideous to look at.

One church I used to attend looked like a gang of vandals went through it with sledgehammers and crowbars. They stripped the place down to the hooks and wire on the walls. By the grace of God the only thing that escaped their ravages was the Sistine Chapelesque painting on the ceiling.

I did a little research and found pictures of what the church used to look like in the local public library after it was first built in the early 20th century and it was beautiful.

Now it looks like a tornado went through it. It pains me to think of the poor parishoners having to stand and watch as these modern day Huns destroyed what their grandfathers and greatgrandfathers (and mothers) built with their blood, toil, tears and sweat.

Am I alone in this? Please let me know. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

You are not alone in this, I came back to the Church after and when I came back there was a new Parish built in my hometown.

Just like you said except I can see the tabernacle it is a glass pyramid off to the side. Otherwise pretty much the same as you described, oh and one more thing.
Felt banners!
With “full community participation”, etc glued on them.

So now we are trying to compete with the evangelical mega church in town, and we will lose if we keep heading down this path.

This is what the liturgical dancing, liberals think will solve the problem. Make the Church feel even better as much as possible and encourage community as much as possible and people will come.

Pure stupidity, why not concentrate on what the Catholic Church offers, such as being the one true Church Jesus founded and “offer salvation.” This will always trump “community feelings”

Yet they continue on experimenting and searching for a non-solution to the problem they created, by furthering the problem.

We need to be faithful to Catholicism not reinvent it to our own desire. This means teach truth, live truth and submit to God.

In Christ
Scylla

(heck they might be on the right track, I am sure I can make the Church filled if I ignore sin and make it entertainment. Taken to the extreme, that is what keeps strip clubs in business, heck the pornography business is huge!
Pleasure sells.)

 

[Karin]

LOL!

Both Karin and Nils think that I’m Californian, it’s rather funny because I’m so way on the other side of the US from you folks.

Karianne-

Hmm…before throwing my name into your general assumptions…how about you make sure of your facts

I never stated I thought you where from CA or anywhere else…If I recall (from another thread) you where somewhere on the East Coast and not far from me…DC or MD…

 

[Karin]

I’m so proud!

WHOA Netmil(name removed by moderator)…you are so lucky…

 

[ComradeAndrei]

Am I alone in this? Please let me know. Any comments are greatly appreciated.

No, I agree with you and one of my pet peeves is the architecture thing as well.

I am of the “old school” in which order and beauty point to Truth. The modern architecture of disorder points to the disjunction of soul that modern man feels-he lost his sense of Sacred and transcendence and replaced it with a monument to himself-the pinnacle and savior of a materialist worldview.

I was reading a book about modern church architecture published in the early sixties and was shocked at the justification put forth by some architects for the aesthetic revolution. They say, since we have new building materials that make all this nonsense possible, to continue to build churches in the old fashion is basically living a lie-being somehow “dishonest” in our “quest” for a worship in Spirit and Truth.

I thought that we were already worshiping in Spirit and Truth in following the unchangable Tradition of the Apostles? Guess we were wrong for the past 1,950 yrs.

 

[Karianne]

I’ve been blocked! I love it!!!

I have never been so important in a persons life that they blocked me.

God love ya!

Not YOU!

 

[KCT]

I am 21 and also feel like I too am part of a lost generation of Catholics. I attend a Jesuit University and try to attend daily mass, but typically there are no more than 3 students and as for Sunday masses lets just say there arent many going. Our chapel is practically empty.

Even when I go to my parents home for the holidays at our parish its like all the college kids dont even go to mass anymore. Its saddening.

Maybe its a young adult stage where no one values their faith, and those of us who try to are labeled as extremists.

Peace be with you all,

Regis University Student

God bless you for your faithfulness. You and others like you are our hope for the future! —KCT

 

[netmilsmom]

Not YOU!

 

[Karin]

I think someone got into their cats…catnip by accident of course!

 

[netmilsmom]

…by accident of course!

Oh yes! Of course!

 

[Julianna]

I bet you’re from CA!

Now that was low blow, there, netmil(name removed by moderator).